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Jorginho is a Blue


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6 minutes ago, jack_super_class said:

You said Kante has never played that position, making it seem like you think he would struggle. You always go on about how great Jorginho is and Kante made it look easy.

Kante has never been the lone DM but he did well today, if he does it in more games then Lampard have made Kante play something that he really didn't play before and I can admit already that I was wrong for thinking that Kante isn't a player for that position.

But does that mean that Jorginho doesn't do his role well, no it doesn't, what Kante did today, Jorginho has been doing for 3 seasons. Yet you praise Kante and still hate Jorginho. That's double standard.

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I’m a big fan of Jorginho, but if we’re going to stick with 433 which looked absolutely brilliant, I don’t see a place for him sadly.

Maybe it’s not such a bad idea to sell him in January and find a better back up for Kante, perhaps Declan Rice?

Obviously it’s still early days but not looking good for him.

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25 minutes ago, Slojo said:

 


Not necessarily, Kante got given this role on the restart last season in the first 3 games and he struggled big time in that position. 

Today we had an overload of attackers that were too much for Burnley. One game doesn't prove anyone right/wrong. Kante plays bad next game then what? Does Gol15 come in here and start laughing at you both because you were wrong? This this creates fickle behaviour. 

It was funny because he said good luck with that, making it seem it would go badly wrong. Ive wanted 433 with Kante at DM for a while, Kante has more to offer than Jorginho. Kante didn't struggle i dont think last season in that position. He can do if he wants, but i doubt Jorginho will play for a while.

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31 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Kante has never been the lone DM but he did well today, if he does it in more games then Lampard have made Kante play something that he really didn't play before and I can admit already that I was wrong for thinking that Kante isn't a player for that position.

But does that mean that Jorginho doesn't do his role well, no it doesn't, what Kante did today, Jorginho has been doing for 3 seasons. Yet you praise Kante and still hate Jorginho. That's double standard.

Ive praised Jorginho though, i said that his game vs Palace at home this season was his best game in a Chelsea shirt. Ive never once said Jorginho is a bad player either. Kante offers more than Jorginho, and i found it odd that you thought he couldn't play that position. Kante did play a few games there last season after lockdown, i thought he did well but some of the results didnt go our way so it made it seem that it didn't go well.

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29 minutes ago, dansubrosa said:

I’m a big fan of Jorginho, but if we’re going to stick with 433 which looked absolutely brilliant, I don’t see a place for him sadly.

Maybe it’s not such a bad idea to sell him in January and find a better back up for Kante, perhaps Declan Rice?

Obviously it’s still early days but not looking good for him.

We dont need Rice, keep playing Kante there. We will have Ampadu back next season who can also play that role.

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38 minutes ago, charierre said:

Wind your necks in Jorgi disciples. Jorginho on a windy day in Lancashire against a team that play of physicality is no place for a weak DM.

You actually went all in with the hate... I wonder what did Jorginho ever do to you? You base all this on 1 game, at least I base my opinion on 2 seasons.

Lets just casually forget that Jorginho has been playing well for us this season as because you know, we would have lost this game against one of the best teams in the league had he played from the start, no doubt about that right? Super cringe, maybe time for me to update the ignore list...

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17 minutes ago, jack_super_class said:

Ive praised Jorginho though, i said that his game vs Palace at home this season was his best game in a Chelsea shirt. Ive never once said Jorginho is a bad player either. Kante offers more than Jorginho, and i found it odd that you thought he couldn't play that position. Kante did play a few games there last season after lockdown, i thought he did well but some of the results didnt go our way so it made it seem that it didn't go well.

What Kante did today, Jorginho has been doing for more than 2 seasons. I wish we would get the chance to see how Kovacic and Jorginho would do with Kai and Mount in front of them, Jorginho already played well with Kai at least one game. But sure, let's just never play Jorginho again...

 

1 minute ago, dkw said:

I get the feeling you would have been happy if we lost today so you could point out Kante failed 

Winning the game is what matters but I get the feeling that you like to gloat as soon as someone trashtalks Jorginho, you never seem to defend him. I'm happy that we won but that doesn't mean that I like that Jorginho is being treated unfairly. Against Krasnodar I didn't really care to comment in the match thread because I'm being mocked for Jorginho hitting the post from the penalty spot, that shows to me that others prefer to see Jorginho not scoring from the penalty spot so that they can mock him and people like me. Haters like you people are really toxic sometimes...

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Let not get carried away Burnley were absolutely atrocious worst I have seen them in the PL no pressing no closing down they just stood off us and allowed us so much time and space they didn't even try to engage only time they tried was the end of the first half an we started to panic.

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8 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

What Kante did today, Jorginho has been doing for more than 2 seasons. I wish we would get the chance to see how Kovacic and Jorginho would do with Kai and Mount in front of them, Jorginho already played well with Kai at least one game. But sure, let's just never play Jorginho again...

 

Winning the game is what matters but I get the feeling that you like to gloat as soon as someone trashtalks Jorginho, you never seem to defend him. I'm happy that we won but that doesn't mean that I like that Jorginho is being treated unfairly. Against Krasnodar I didn't really care to comment in the match thread because I'm being mocked for Jorginho hitting the post from the penalty spot, that shows to me that others prefer to see Jorginho not scoring from the penalty spot so that they can mock him and people like me. Haters like you people are really toxic sometimes...

Haters like me? Find anything I've written on here that is me hating on him.

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15 minutes ago, dkw said:

Haters like me? Find anything I've written on here that is me hating on him.

Oh sorry I thought that you agree with the sentiment that Jorginho doesn't fit at all and that he shouldn't play and so on... It's then just a coincidence that you tend to like some posts that are aimed against my view when I defend Jorginho and stuff like that, I didn't know you rated Jorginho. Next time don't be afraid to speak out your opinion there is nothing wrong in seeing things with less feelings and more objectively! I have defended Jorginho, Kante, Lampard, Mount so far and I honestly hope that Kai doesn't become a new scapegoat when Jorginho leaves, maybe then this place will be less toxic (at least for some time).

Anyway like I said, I'm happy that we won but that doesn't mean that people should jump on Jorginho, last season I have pointed out my opinion: As long as we're winning there isn't a real reason to complain about something, and I said that at the time when Kante was playing and Jorginho and Kovacic weren't.

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46 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

What Kante did today, Jorginho has been doing for more than 2 seasons. I wish we would get the chance to see how Kovacic and Jorginho would do with Kai and Mount in front of them, Jorginho already played well with Kai at least one game. But sure, let's just never play Jorginho again...

 

Winning the game is what matters but I get the feeling that you like to gloat as soon as someone trashtalks Jorginho, you never seem to defend him. I'm happy that we won but that doesn't mean that I like that Jorginho is being treated unfairly. Against Krasnodar I didn't really care to comment in the match thread because I'm being mocked for Jorginho hitting the post from the penalty spot, that shows to me that others prefer to see Jorginho not scoring from the penalty spot so that they can mock him and people like me. Haters like you people are really toxic sometimes...

Thats fine by me, Lampard has never been 100% on him. What does Jorginho offer apart from passing that makes him better than Kante in that position?.

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Nobody actually hates Jorginho( he plays for the team we all support) but many point to his chronic lack of pace and physical attributes make him not suitable against some opponents, it could argued like many other failed SerieA imports the game is just to physical in this country. They return to Italy and suddenly feel more within their comfort zone,Cuadrado being a good example. Similarly English players on the whole have failed to light up European leagues. There are of course examples both ways of successes. Today Kante had a good game, proving he can do the job there, I'm not sure why he was doubted to be honest. He isn't the complete article there and I do think that a new defensive midfielder will arrive, time will tell. As for Jorginho, I personally wonder if the team can operate with both him and Kai in it, time will tell, I would happily hold my hands up to being wrong as the team would then have improved,which ultimately we all want no matter the personnel playing.

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25 minutes ago, jack_super_class said:

Thats fine by me, Lampard has never been 100% on him. What does Jorginho offer apart from passing that makes him better than Kante in that position?.

Lampard made him vice-captain so idk where do you get that he hasn't been 100% on him. Kante at his best is one of the best players in the league but then he really isn't a sitting DM like he was today for example. Last season Jorginho was better than Kante in pretty much everything.

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And the season before that was Jorginho's first season in the PL and he had the most passes made in the whole league.

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We have a good squad, if you tell me that by not playing Jorginho we win every game then I'm fine with it, but he hasn't been as bad as you think.

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1 minute ago, Gol15 said:

Lampard made him vice-captain so idk where do you get that he hasn't been 100% on him. Kante at his best is one of the best players in the league but then he really isn't a sitting DM like he was today for example. Last season Jorginho was better than Kante in pretty much everything.

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And the season before that was Jorginho's first season in the PL and he had the most passes made in the whole league.

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We have a good squad, if you tell me that by not playing Jorginho we win every game then I'm fine with it, but he hasn't been as bad as you think.

You haven't really answered my question. Lampard made him vice captain because he's vocal and everyone is our squad is quiet. Lampard already complained about the lack of communication during matches. So making him vice caption isn't really a big deal, Lampard didn't have a big selection to choose from. He stopped playing him for a while last season, even had Gilmour infront of him, lot of talk of us trying to sell him last transfer window. And today he dropped him again, i don't think he will play the next game either.

Kante had a poor season last year, lots of injuries too. Playing him further up the pitch more to the right wont help him with tackling stats. His stats have dropped because we have more possession under Sarri and Lampard than Conte.I guarantee playing him infront of the back four his stats will improve, just like under Conte. Look how many more tackles and passes he made today by playing in the position he did. Jorginho passing is good, something everyone already knew.

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21 minutes ago, jack_super_class said:

You haven't really answered my question. Lampard made him vice captain because he's vocal and everyone is our squad is quiet. Lampard already complained about the lack of communication during matches. So making him vice caption isn't really a big deal, Lampard didn't have a big selection to choose from. He stopped playing him for a while last season, even had Gilmour infront of him, lot of talk of us trying to sell him last transfer window. And today he dropped him again, i don't think he will play the next game either.

Kante had a poor season last year, lots of injuries too. Playing him further up the pitch more to the right wont help him with tackling stats. His stats have dropped because we have more possession under Sarri and Lampard than Conte.I guarantee playing him infront of the back four his stats will improve, just like under Conte. Look how many more tackles and passes he made today by playing in the position he did. Jorginho passing is good, something everyone already knew.

Well the first picture is the answer, last season Jorginho was better than Kante at pretty much everything.

Yes Jorginho only played in the last minutes today but isn't it in general that a better player is saved for a more important fixture and Burnley really wasn't going to be much of an obstacle for us today... So I wouldn't really read that much into it, that Jorginho didn't play today and that goes for Kovacic too, in Europe both started the game and it was Kante that came off the bench so yea... It doesn't really show that Lampard has problems with Jorginho because he didn't start the game against Burnley, and if he had problems Jorginho wouldn't be the vice-captain it's that simple.

This season Kante has made the most tackles in the league in our squad but he played over 180 minutes more than Jorginho, the difference is 4 tackles only.

Jorginho is a much better passer but he gets criticism for passing sideways at times, meanwhile Kante is basically doing only that and he gets no criticism at all for it, it's a job well done when Kante does it but when Jorginho does it + makes openings for Chilwell and Werner he's still not doing well enough?

Sure we can make the argument that Kante can just win the ball and let Mount and Havertz pass the ball around, but then he really needs to do that 1 job well and he had this season already 180 minutes of playtime without winning a single duel, but that was against much better opposition than Burnley. It's up to Kante to show if he can do this, because Kovacic runs better with the ball and Jorginho organizes and passes the ball better.

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im not going to jump on jorginho because Kante had a spectacular game. Weve seen Jorginho do well in games like today aswell. 

I do think that if we continue with the system we played today, then Jorginho will struggle to get in over Kante though. 

We have also seen Gilmour push Jorginho down the pecking order in this system, so it will be interesting to see what happens in the next couple of months. 

I think the only time Jorginho played in a similar setup with 2 attacking 8's next to him, was also a 3 nil win st home to Burnley coincidentally enough, mount and barkley were either side of him. 

Maybe he will get an opportunity to play that role again at some point, but he is firmly behind Kante at the moment imo.

 

 

 

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For the level of ability Jorg has in passing which is much higher than Kantes, he doesn't exert this strength enough to make him more valuable than the strengths Kante does. Yes you are a great passer and controller but what good isit if you keep passing it to our cbs and not looking to break lines higher up the pitch? 

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16 hours ago, dansubrosa said:

I’m a big fan of Jorginho, but if we’re going to stick with 433 which looked absolutely brilliant, I don’t see a place for him sadly.

Maybe it’s not such a bad idea to sell him in January and find a better back up for Kante, perhaps Declan Rice?

Obviously it’s still early days but not looking good for him.

How is declan rice an upgrade to anyone in our midfield. He is slow and heavy footed to play as dm, dont see anything that he does well in that role. 

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22 hours ago, dansubrosa said:

I’m a big fan of Jorginho, but if we’re going to stick with 433 which looked absolutely brilliant, I don’t see a place for him sadly.

Maybe it’s not such a bad idea to sell him in January and find a better back up for Kante, perhaps Declan Rice?

Obviously it’s still early days but not looking good for him.

Disagree there, let him have more freedom to go forward and create when Moint or Kai need a game off. He does not have the engine Kovacic does but has a great deal more quality in his passing, control and creativity imo.

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Jorginho was a specialty signing, he came as part of a double act with Sarri (grease to get the man’s signature on the contract).

first season did ok, 2 cup finals, one trophy, 3rd in prem, but the whole world and a few of us didn’t appreciate the re purposing of Kante, sure he scored some goals but the overall impression was that he was being played out of position. Man City apparently we’re sniffing after Jorginho so at the time he seemed like a good signing with the new good manager after the Conte debacle.

second season, transfer ban, Sarri quits, rumors that he wants his registra back, but no players of any value / worth get sold by CFC as they cannot be replaced, he stays has an ok season, although later in season initially for project re start he looked frozen out, injuries get him back in the team, 1 cup final, no trophy, 4th in prem

third season, it’s business as usual, new players and a strong rumor CFC are after Rice it never happened, 2 bob pre season, Jorginho starts games with a mixed bag of results, the season doesn’t get off to the start most hoped, the keeper, the center backs, the deep midfield all causing issues that affect results. Finally this last week, 2 months + into the season  the ‘alchemy’ starts to kick in as a 4-3-3 formation all 6 new signings are accommodated, 3 in the defensive zone don’t impact Jorginho's place but Kai Havertz at 70 mill  will start,  Kante back to his best position and playing like yesterday will start, Mason will start for his energy and enthusiasm that the manager values highly. Leaving no position for this man. It is however a long season, and will get his fair share of appearances when you factor in injuries, suspensions and substitutions.

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