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Mateo Kovačić


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OK. Kante never won possession back  at any point today. 

Similarly tonight I never mixed gin with tonic and popped in a slice of lemon. 

Jorginho is a key player for there or thereabout teams who have no genuine prospects to challenge for major trophies. Perfect for Aston Villa. 

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45 minutes ago, loz said:

Zero duels? 😂😂😂

Was it pistols or broadswords? 

So I am clear. Are you claiming Kante hasn't won a single tackle in 180 minutes of football? 

Zero duels!

Yet another example of Whoscored.com ruining a generation of football fans. Kante was everywhere all across the pitch harrying and challenging. Not always winning the ball but stopping United playing through midfield.

But the stats say zero duels! Meanwhile I'm sure Jorginho won five such duels with his featherduster. 

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29 minutes ago, Spiller86 said:

Zero duels!

Yet another example of Whoscored.com ruining a generation of football fans. Kante was everywhere all across the pitch harrying and challenging. Not always winning the ball but stopping United playing through midfield.

But the stats say zero duels! Meanwhile I'm sure Jorginho won five such duels with his featherduster. 

Anyone who watched the game could see him pressing high up the pitch and closing down passing channels preventing United to break on us. 

The number of times he pressed Fernandez and made him go back was unreal. 

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2 hours ago, Spiller86 said:

Zero duels!

Yet another example of Whoscored.com ruining a generation of football fans. Kante was everywhere all across the pitch harrying and challenging. Not always winning the ball but stopping United playing through midfield.

But the stats say zero duels! Meanwhile I'm sure Jorginho won five such duels with his featherduster. 

Only those who choose to not see that Kante isn't the same player as 3 years ago won't see it... The rest of us that saw how he was during the 16/17 season can clearly see a difference, stats are just the description of the reality and a bit of a reflection, so don't blame the stats blame the player that made those stats if you are to blame someone that is, if you really think that discussing football and having stats to back up some claims is "ruining a generation of fans" how would to describe yourself when taking in count that you have this huge bias against a player that has been playing for your club for 3 seasons now?

If you really think that Kante had a great game and that "Jorginho was once again a problem" you at this point don't even talk football anymore, the main element that made Kante the best player in the league is missing from his game, he didn't do what his main strength should be for 180+ minutes and you still choose to scapegoat Jorginho??

If Jorginho was as bad as this narrative against him has been for the past year, Lampard would never ever play him, in fact he would have never cost Chelsea around 50m in the first place, he would never be close to any national team selection... It's very easy to see that you're wrong.

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4 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Yes, 0 duels won in 180minutes of football which is 2 games that's exactly what I said.

You keep pointing at Jorginho but you got no ammo, the biggest argument against Jorginho is that he is the reason for our bad defending yet here we are getting clean sheets now with him still playing ::HeAdS::: 

Even if Jorginho had been sold this last transfer window, he has already succeeded in transforming the way we play, he played in 3 different Cup finals already so it's time that you change your narrative a bit, nobody at the club has any problems with Jorginho...

What does that have to do with anything, Kepa played in two of them.

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I think you guys should meet each other half way, yes Kante wasn't completely useless and does help the team but when you do compare him to what he was a couple seasons ago you can tell that he has dipped quite a bit.

That's not to say it's a permanent decline as I do see him have world class performances last season until he gets overused, I just don't think he can do it every match now without some rest.

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His inability to make good assists, to score goals and to attack between the lines is hurting him badly. What's the point of him being the second best dribbler in Chelsea history behind Hazard when the runs always end up with intersection or bad decision. If he is not miles ahead of Kante offensively he will never be first choice because even that nerfed version of N'golo is way way better than Kova defensively. 

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9 hours ago, Spiller86 said:

Zero duels!

Yet another example of Whoscored.com ruining a generation of football fans. Kante was everywhere all across the pitch harrying and challenging. Not always winning the ball but stopping United playing through midfield.

But the stats say zero duels! Meanwhile I'm sure Jorginho won five such duels with his featherduster. 

So running around constitutes to having a good game now? f**king hell, we should get Scott Parker back out of retirement. 

 

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5 hours ago, Ernie_blue said:

What does that have to do with anything, Kepa played in two of them.

Kepa isn't playing anymore, Jorginho still is. 3 different cup finals in 3 years isn't that bad.

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7 hours ago, Droopy said:

His inability to make good assists, to score goals and to attack between the lines is hurting him badly. What's the point of him being the second best dribbler in Chelsea history behind Hazard when the runs always end up with intersection or bad decision. If he is not miles ahead of Kante offensively he will never be first choice because even that nerfed version of N'golo is way way better than Kova defensively. 

That's exactly how I see it.

Kovacic is a good player, but somehow he needs to find a bit more as being a good player is fine when you play for Villa or Newcastle or West ham but we are striving for a bigger things. I think he has it in him, it's a case of making it happen.

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But when Jorginho or Kante dont play i dont think we miss them, when Kovacic doesnt play i think we miss him. He doesnt sore or assist doesnt mean he doesnt bring something to the team. What about hes good workrate, tacking and intercepting, his ability to beat the press, to dribble through the midfield. His energy, his ability to keep possession in tight spaces. When Kante gets pressed he gives the ball away.

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8 hours ago, Droopy said:

His inability to make good assists, to score goals and to attack between the lines is hurting him badly. What's the point of him being the second best dribbler in Chelsea history behind Hazard when the runs always end up with intersection or bad decision. If he is not miles ahead of Kante offensively he will never be first choice because even that nerfed version of N'golo is way way better than Kova defensively. 

This is just plain wrong. Everything about it. There are reasons why he's our reigning POTS. 
So to claim "the runs always end up with intersection or bad decision." is just uneducated to be frank. 

Kovacic is by far the best ball-progressor we have. Interestingly enough he's also the best in the entire league at it. When it comes to both running and passing.

He's our best midfielder by some distance at this point. 

image.thumb.png.c7a3d90ab040309afddba26d6862f270.png

Edited by Sindre
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54 minutes ago, Nibs said:

That's exactly how I see it.

Kovacic is a good player, but somehow he needs to find a bit more as being a good player is fine when you play for Villa or Newcastle or West ham but we are striving for a bigger things. I think he has it in him, it's a case of making it happen.

He's a much better footballer than Kante though, some of Kante's play in the United game was piss poor. Yes he covered a lot of ground, but as someone pointed out, if you look at the actual times he dispossessed United, it wasn't a great deal. 

This is basically what Ramires was good at, that didn't make him a great player here. He was used in the big games for his cardio and pressing, I don't even know how people are slating Jorginho with one hand but on the other complimenting Kante. 

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So what is going on with Kovacic? I don't buy into this crap about him not playing because he recently became a father. He is a professional football player and surely doesn't need to babysit a newborn every day FFS

Kovacic was POTY last year and just gets ignored this season despite looking good in the limited minutes he featured. I don't agree with how he this is handled at all and it just doesn't make sense.

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25 minutes ago, reparto corse said:

So what is going on with Kovacic? I don't buy into this crap about him not playing because he recently became a father. He is a professional football player and surely doesn't need to babysit a newborn every day FFS

Kovacic was POTY last year and just gets ignored this season despite looking good in the limited minutes he featured. I don't agree with how he this is handled at all and it just doesn't make sense.

Agree it can’t be that. I mean he played a full half of football three days after becoming a dad, and it was the best he played this season. I should think the Kovacices have all the help money can buy when it comes to babysitting. It may not be anything - just a tactical preference for the other two last few games, and for all we know that preference could be extremely marginal. Like others I expect we will see him back in the fold soon. 

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Think folk are getting a little carried away with Kovacic. He seems to be another player who is benefiting by NOT playing (like Rudiger before him - "defence will be fine when Rudiger returns..............!!")

Don't get me wrong - he is a GOOD player and brings something to the team. There is certainly enough evidence that he could improve us in some games but I s. till don't think he has shown enough to being a nailed on starter. Think he will start ahead of Kante or Jorginho soon and then it's down to him to do enough to keep his place. Those who keep reminding us he was CFC POTS last season, yes, he was exactly that. He didn't win the Ballon d'or FFS, he won CFC player of the season in what, lets face it, was a fairly unremarkable season. The only other real contenders were Mount and Abraham who both faded so Kovacic rightly got it, a bit like when Willian won it one season when he was best of an okay bunch. We have since signed more quality players so naturally there is more competition for places so it's easy to see why players are being left out or rotated while Frank tries to identify his best team. 

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1 hour ago, Sindre said:

This is just plain wrong. Everything about it. There are reasons why he's our reigning POTS. 
So to claim "the runs always end up with intersection or bad decision." is just uneducated to be frank. 

Kovacic is by far the best ball-progressor we have. Interestingly enough he's also the best in the entire league at it. When it comes to both running and passing.

He's our best midfielder by some distance at this point. 

 

Nice fancy statistics. Pardon me and my uneducated approach with the assists and goals. I really should just move on the fancy stuff - what's on X axis, what's on Y axis, what does it mean, how are the scrubs like Fred, Guendozi and Harry Winks in the top 5 best of this genius statistical masterpiece. Who cares about those things? Who cares about goals and assists? If it looks shiny, its gotta be good. If we can explain it or not, doesnt matter, as long as it looks like its some 9-years old first experience with excel. Damn, I am so behind. 

 

'Progressive distance carried' god damn it, and almost the same thing on the Y axis I am losing it. 😄 

Edited by Droopy
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13 minutes ago, Droopy said:

Nice fancy statistics. Pardon me and my uneducated approach with the assists and goals. I really should just move on the fancy stuff - what's on X axis, what's on Y axis, what does it mean, how are the scrubs like Fred, Guendozi and Harry Winks in the top 5 best of this genius statistical masterpiece. Who cares about those things? Who cares about goals and assists? If it looks shiny, its gotta be good. If we can explain it or not, doesnt matter, as long as it looks like its some 9-years old first experience with excel. Damn, I am so behind. 

 

'Progressive distance carried' god damn it, and almost the same thing on the Y axis I am losing it. 😄 

It means that he runs with the ball really good, that won him the POTY basically.

It means that Kovacic knows how to play, pick him on the street and he'll win you the game in those tight spaces. You can't deny that he has skill, now if that is the most important thing, well no it's not but he's one of the best in the league when it comes to that.

Kante doesn't have a single skill that puts him among the top of the league in something anymore, Jorginho and Kovacic have.

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2 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

It means that he runs with the ball really good, that won him the POTY basically.

It means that Kovacic knows how to play, pick him on the street and he'll win you the game in those tight spaces. You can't deny that he has skill, now if that is the most important thing, well no it's not but he's one of the best in the league when it comes to that.

Kante doesn't have a single skill that puts him among the top of the league in something anymore, Jorginho and Kovacic have.

Really? Kante's best attribute is he defends space well, something Jorginho couldn't get anywhere near him at. Without the player willing to do the dirty stuff the more flair players can't succeed. As for yesterdays game how come you haven't been quoting whoscored stats. Now I'm definitely not into in detail stats for a player like yourself but it seems that Kante had a better game than Jorginho according to the figures?

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1485243/LiveStatistics/England-Premier-League-2020-2021-Manchester-United-Chelsea

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26 minutes ago, Droopy said:

Pardon me and my uneducated approach with the assists and goals.

Indeed it is. It's a incredibly shortsighted way of looking at it. If you want to go that route you'd have to exclude some of the best midfielders in history too.

It should be obvious to everyone but not every player on the team is tasked with scoring goals or assist. Some players (Kovacic for example) are tasked with linking the midfield with the attack and he did that superbly well last season.

 

 

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Like most other players, people are overrating Kovacic's abilities because he's not playing. Having said that, I don't think he's any worse than Kante or Jorginho. All of them have their limitations.  Maybe we should try a midfield 3, with one of them instructed to stay back and protect the defense.  

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24 minutes ago, charierre said:

Really? Kante's best attribute is he defends space well, something Jorginho couldn't get anywhere near him at. Without the player willing to do the dirty stuff the more flair players can't succeed. As for yesterdays game how come you haven't been quoting whoscored stats. Now I'm definitely not into in detail stats for a player like yourself but it seems that Kante had a better game than Jorginho according to the figures?

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1485243/LiveStatistics/England-Premier-League-2020-2021-Manchester-United-Chelsea

Jorginho has been among the best passers in the league when it comes to certain stats. Tell me if there is a certain stat where Kante is also among the best just like Kovacic and Jorginho are. I'll wait.

PS. whoscored is not reliable, I had a conversation about Kai Havert's position and we came to the fact that the stats shown there are not really reliable, e.g. for some player it was shown like he made a few saves as if he was a keeper... But Kante not winning any single duel for 2 games in a row is a real stats so yea...

Edited by Gol15
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24 minutes ago, charierre said:

Kante's best attribute is he defends space well,

You think? I'd say he's become notoriously bad at deserting space to go chase the ball. His best attribute is as a ballwinner where he's still the best in the league probably.

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6 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Jorginho has been among the best passers in the league when it comes to certain stats. Tell me if there is a certain stat where Kante is also among the best just like Kovacic and Jorginho are. I'll wait.

PS. whoscored is not reliable, I had a conversation about Kai Havert's position and we came to the fact that the stats shown there are not really reliable, e.g. for some player it was shown like he made a few saves as if he was a keeper... But Kante not winning any single duel for 2 games in a row is a real stats so yea...

Define a duel?

 

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