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coco

Chelsea v Newcastle (PL) Sat 12th Jan 17:30 UK


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14 hours ago, yorkleyblue said:

I won't argue with a lot of you, I think there are so many people who come in here with preconceptions and stereotypical ideas, and so grab onto anything that validates those preconceptions.

Regardless of how much you want to believe it, Willian did not have a bad game today.  I'm always happy to criticise when a player plays badly, but it's f**king ridiculous some of what you people post, and has absolutely no relationship to reality.

 

Still, at least we didn't have some dick celebrating because Willian got injured this time, eh?

Still posting that bullsh*t. Where did I celebrate Willian getting injured f**kwit.

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12 hours ago, Slojo said:


Bringing up Willians poor goal/assist rate this season = BAD 

Yes when he has literally just scored the winning goal and earned us an extra two points. It's all in the timing.

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The views expressed within posts on the forum are the opinions of specific forum users and do not necessarily represent the views of the forum users in their entirety or the forum administrators.

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Bottom line here is be sensible - some general rules that we would like to see followed are:


3. A forum is about opinions but keep personal insults out of it please. If you need to have a ding dong take it offline. 

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22 minutes ago, coco said:

Guidelines

Disclaimer

The views expressed within posts on the forum are the opinions of specific forum users and do not necessarily represent the views of the forum users in their entirety or the forum administrators.

Rules

Bottom line here is be sensible - some general rules that we would like to see followed are:


3. A forum is about opinions but keep personal insults out of it please. If you need to have a ding dong take it offline. 

I'll except that from now on but i won't accept false accusations and insults thrown at me by anyone.

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16 minutes ago, Kev56 said:

I'll except that from now on but i won't accept false accusations and insults thrown at me by anyone.

It's ok to insult each other mate, just don't go overboard with it.:wink:

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19 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

. Willian is at his best bringing the ball out of defence and starting our attacks,

Which is exactly what you want and need from an attacking midfielder, which is what he is.  Just because the telly format/lineup thing shows him in a pretty picture at right wing, doesn't mean a thing.  He is and always has been an attacking midfielder with strong defensive capabilities. (I'm not saying that he has played to those strengths this year,mind)

20 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

He had a very poor finish in the first half, 3 or 4 really poor corners, 

Oh what we would give for a strker who scored one out of every three chances he got, regardless of how awful the other two misses were.  And I don't think that either of the two chances he missed were simple tap-ins, or obvious gimmes.  I'm not sure why you would say they were really poor corners, other than it's become a mantra now and we didn't score from any of them.  Hazard's corners were, at best, no better, and probably worse.

As for the stopping, that has become the way we play and has been for years.  It's not just Willian, all the team do it most of the time, Hazard is the worst culprit, along with Dave, but neither of those get slated for it.  Again, it's become a lazy way of slamming a player you don't like.  I know he upset you with his pictogram thing of the cup final celebrations, and I think that is informing your dislike somewhat.

But, we've had this discussion many times.  I think you're wrong, but you have an opinion, so you carry on.  I will say that Joe Cole, amongst many other professionals and pundits, is on my side.

Edited by yorkleyblue
Totally abysmal spelling

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17 hours ago, Slojo said:

Yep, because that's totally what I'm doing, I said I would be delighted if he did that, instead he doesn't get many assists or goals and it doesn't warrant the game time he gets. 

Bringing up Willians poor goal/assist rate this season = BAD

Saying Willian is great because he scored a goal = GOOD

 

Well lets give credit where its due, Willian finally managed to score and he did it all on his own, now lets just be happy and ignore that he did it against one of the worst teams in the league.
IMO as long as Pedro is playing we have a great chance of winning, and in many cases with Pedro in the lineup we score first and in the opening 15 minutes of the game.

Hazard and Pedro are our best attacking players and everyone wishes that Willian was more consistent.

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1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

everyone wishes that Willian was more consistent

He's incredibly consistent. Pencil him in for roughly 6 goals and 5 assists before the season starts. You know EXACTLY what you're gonna get. 

I for one, wish he was more productive.

I know what you meant though.

If I have a Willian agenda it's to remind people that this is what Willian has always been. I know most people are SHOCKED when they find out he's a 5 goal 4 assist player. 

They see the skill and think that skill has translated into goal production, but he's never been that guy. 

I've said before and seen it repeated on here, his best position would be the LCM. He'd be more productive than Kovacic...

Hell, at this point, I'd almost swap him for Alonso. We got a winger praised for his defensive abilities that doesn't score. We've got a left back praised for his work going forward that can't defend... problem solved.. lol...

Willian would never go for it, but he's a lot closer to Marcelo than any winger in the top 6. 

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20 hours ago, Dean said:

We’ll see. My bigger concern about Kovacic is he leaves at the end of the season and becomes a world-class midfielder for another side. I think you’re judging him on an excessively small sample (performances for Chelsea so far), but even within that sample unfair to say productivity is non-existent. I could point to, off the top of my head:   vs Watford, a perfectly weighted through ball to set up Willian for what could easily have been a goal; another great ball for Hazard in the same game that did result in a goal; and a defense-splitting throughball to set up hazard to score vs Liverpool. Those are on top of generally solid performances with good link up play and sublime bits of skill, e.g. vs Man City. He’s not the finished article yet. But give him time or someone else will, and we may regret it. 

Possibly Dean, but personally i would regret losing RLC or Mason Mount more tbh

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3 hours ago, shedpensioner said:

Corners generally in the PL seem to be a forgotten art, the amount of times the first man isn’t cleared is shocking really for players on these wages.

Its not just this, but every time there is a corner the crowd roar it on as if it has some tactical advantage over the oppositon. How many corners nowadays actually result in an attempt on goal that is on target. Not many.

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16 hours ago, Skinnedy said:

If I have a Willian agenda it's to remind people that this is what Willian has always been. I know most people are SHOCKED when they find out he's a 5 goal 4 assist player.

Thank you, exactly what I have been trying to get across forever.

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On 13/01/2019 at 10:48, coco said:

Yes when he has literally just scored the winning goal and earned us an extra two points. It's all in the timing.

It was brought up before the game and has been all season... Stop being obtuse coco you know what I'm talking about. 

I'm glad he won us the game, it was vital because United just won and would have only been 3 points behind us but one goal no matter how significant doesn't wash out all the sh*t. I don't think Willian played well, I don't think he played terrible by any means but he's still not performing up to standard, we know that one goal doesn't change anything, he can still go on for another 8 games without scoring or assisting should he start every game from here on now. 

He's had a bad season... I'm not happy about it but I expected it, I've never seen Willian play at his best when he has no competition or place to fight for, it's just like how he was 4 years ago when he played almost every game in the League and we won the title, it was probably his worst season in a Chelsea shirt, and this one so far is probably going to top it. 

Edited by Slojo

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1 hour ago, yorkleyblue said:

Thank you, exactly what I have been trying to get across forever.

I definitely don't agree that Willian has always been bad, but I definitely think this is his worst season so far in a Chelsea shirt. 

Like I just said in a post above, when we won the title under Mourinho, Willian played and started every single game and that was (before now) his worst season for Chelsea. He was a workhorse but he offered next to nothing other than that, after that he was probably our best player, he was sensational under Conte in his first season most of the time he played, the season after he was good but patchy, very inconsistent but offered a lot, this season he has been stagnant I'm afraid. 

One goal this game is not going to change that, unless he starts playing well in the next run of games I'm not convinced things are going to change if we keep playing him every single game. 

Edited by Slojo

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I really can't keep on telling you, mate.  Willian is an attacking mid-fielder and his primary role is not scoring goals.  Any that he does score is a bonus.  He has never been primarily a goal-scorer, wherever he has played.  And yet top club and international managers keep on selecting him. 

I think you and many others might be confusing what his role is with what you WANT his role to be, and consequently judging his performance against standards to which he should not be held.  By all means criticise the occasions when he just doesn't perform at all, and I will agree with you there have been some of those over the years.  But judge him on the role he is asked to play, not on what you want him to do.  And never judge the player's performance based on what he posted on twatter or pictogram 9 months ago. (when a huge number of people in here were crying out for Conte to go, by the way!)

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49 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

I really can't keep on telling you, mate.  Willian is an attacking mid-fielder and his primary role is not scoring goals.  Any that he does score is a bonus. 

In Sarri's 4-3-3 formation which players/positions do you think have the responsibility of scoring scores? 

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11 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

Would be nice if a striker could do it now and again

That goes without saying @yorkleyblue!

Unfortunately, our strikers or options are possibly the worst any club pertaining to finish in the top 4 have ever had, EVER. That is why there is more pressure on the likes of Willian and Pedro to contribute more. It's not asking too much - we need Pedro, Willian, Hazard and now CHO to do for us what Sterling, Silva, KDB & Sane do for City - even though I do appreciate they are not on the same level (excluding Hazard of course). 

Edited by Nibs

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10 minutes ago, Nibs said:

That goes without saying @yorkleyblue!

Unfortunately, our strikers or options are possibly the worst any club pertaining to finish in the top 4 have ever had, EVER. That is why there is more pressure on the likes of Willian and Pedro to contribute more. It's not asking too much - we need Pedro, Willian, Hazard and now CHO to do for us what Sterling, Silva, KDB & Sane do for City - even though I do appreciate they are not on the same level (excluding Hazard of course). 

I'm not arguing with that @Nibs, but people  getting all hatey at Willian because he doesn't score when he never has is just simplistic and lazy, and is just scapegoating a player for the wrong reasons.

He has other attributes that contribute to the team but which a lot of people won't accept or credit.  Still, people have to have a hate-figure of the moment, don't they? 

Otherwise, what is there to whine about?  "I'll never forgive him for posting a picture with trophies over a manager that I didn't like anyway" FFS!

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The way i see it, we have had a couple of bad transfer windows and ended up with some very poor players. It's taking time to move these players on and introduce new stock.Whilst this is ongoing it would be foolish to get rid of of better players, and replace them with risky options.  Once we have a decent striker up front banging in goals, then we can consider Willians' replacement, unless Willan feeds the new striker with regular assists.

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On 12/01/2019 at 19:30, bluedave said:

I’d say it was more of a groan than a jeer. There’s a big difference.

Haha fair enough my whinging terminology might need brushing up, the point was I’ve never seen it before and he reacted, he defiantly didn’t like that then some of the crowd noticed and started cheering his name, it was weird.   

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21 hours ago, Skinnedy said:

He's incredibly consistent. Pencil him in for roughly 6 goals and 5 assists before the season starts. You know EXACTLY what you're gonna get. 

I for one, wish he was more productive.

I know what you meant though.

If I have a Willian agenda it's to remind people that this is what Willian has always been. I know most people are SHOCKED when they find out he's a 5 goal 4 assist player. 

They see the skill and think that skill has translated into goal production, but he's never been that guy. 

I've said before and seen it repeated on here, his best position would be the LCM. He'd be more productive than Kovacic...

Hell, at this point, I'd almost swap him for Alonso. We got a winger praised for his defensive abilities that doesn't score. We've got a left back praised for his work going forward that can't defend... problem solved.. lol...

Willian would never go for it, but he's a lot closer to Marcelo than any winger in the top 6. 

Well at these times even if this has been his average performance I think many hoped that he could step up a bit and put up more goals at least because we really lack a goal scorer. In all honesty he could have scored more than Pedro given the clear cut chances he had missed this season.
But what you are saying is very important because Willian will only get worse after this season so maybe it's time to let him go.

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