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Sarri - In or Out?


Sarri In or Out?  

231 members have voted

  1. 1. IN or OUT

    • IN
      98
    • OUT
      116
    • Shake it all about
      10
    • You do the Hokey Cokey
      7


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2 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

But Sarri changed the system that wasn't working (Contes that got us into 5th) and the change worked (we were challenging for the title in November!). If he was managing in 2016/17 when City, Liverpool, United, Arsenal and Tottenham were all not up to much, we'd have been sitting top of the league in December and who knows, maybe have kept it up. 

Except to say that the system stopped working over three months ago and he has changed nothing (and it's not as if there weren't enormous red flags from as far back as August). In fact he has sat idly by while our performances have continued to deteriorate.  

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3 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

But Sarri changed the system that wasn't working (Contes that got us into 5th) and the change worked (we were challenging for the title in November!). If he was managing in 2016/17 when City, Liverpool, United, Arsenal and Tottenham were all not up to much, we'd have been sitting top of the league in December and who knows, maybe have kept it up. 

And now we are racking up consecutive record-losses.

And he hasn't changed anything. There are a million examples of something working for a short amount of time before they got found out.
It's what you do after you have been found out that matters.

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3 minutes ago, Sindre said:

And now we are racking up consecutive record-losses.

And he hasn't changed anything. There are a million examples of something working for a short amount of time before they got found out.
It's what you do after you have been found out that matters.

I agree. That's why I think he should go. 

It's also though a problem I had with Conte. What did he change when it wasn't working in the second season? How many games did Bakayoko play when he had a ready made Kante partner in Drinkwater on the bench. 

I only got into this shouting match because someone said Conte was a flexible tactician. 

Edited by bisright1

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7 minutes ago, PloKoon13 said:

Except to say that the system stopped working over three months ago and he has changed nothing (and it's not as if there weren't enormous red flags from as far back as August). In fact he has sat idly by while our performances have continued to deteriorate.  

Agree, although got to add that not all the players are blameless here. But its the coach that should be responsible for improving them, or dropping them, if they dont perform to required standards or provide what we want.

I like Luiz, can be great on his day but always got a mistake in him. Personally i would try him alongside Kante in the midfeild where hes less of a liability and he has the ability to pass accurately.

Alonso is clearly not suited to a back four and is costing us goals.

Kovacic works hard but would probably need a Sat Nav to find a goal.

Jorghino is a half decent player, but does what hes told, rarely looks up for an attacking pass, and is now constantly overwhelmed now teams have sussed our tactics.

Barkley is not good enough, good squad player, but think his confidence is shot to pieces at moment.

Fair play to Hazard, he has done what hes told, and no doubt wonders what hes doing here at times, but you cant fault his effort or his work rate.

 

 

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48 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Why would he change something that worked so good the most teams in the league started to use a back-three all of a sudden? And won him the league in his first season here, and the FA-cup in his second?
The system wasn't the issue with Conte.

And he didn't maintain Bakayoko until the end either. That's just bollocks.

Conte won two big titles in two years here. What has Sarri won? Nothing.

Well....we won the fa cup by beating Southampton and man united. It's hardly the greatest achievement in football. We also came 5th that year, not sure if you remember. 

Not sure what you mean by Bakayoko. He played almost every game, including the last one. 

Sarri could win a trophy on Sunday. The first trophy up for grabs! I want Sarri gone but it's a bit unfair to criticise him for not winning a trophy!!

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2 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

Well....we won the fa cup by beating Southampton and man united. It's hardly the greatest achievement in football. We also came 5th that year, not sure if you remember. 

Not sure what you mean by Bakayoko. He played almost every game, including the last one. 

Sarri could win a trophy on Sunday. The first trophy up for grabs! I want Sarri gone but it's a bit unfair to criticise him for not winning a trophy!!

True, Sarri COULD win a trophy on Sunday, but it would require him to change his team and tactics to do so. Something we all know he has so far been too stubborn to do.

As for this hype about "Sarriball", its just pocession at all costs, keep the ball. Dont play probing passes or crosses, as that just risks giving the ball to the opposition. It creates very few chances, bores the spectators senseless, and inevitably will be Sarris own downfall...

 

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The thing that will ultimately be Sarri's downfall is his complete lack of adaptability, you can say Pep and Klopp had poor first seasons but they where changing formations and personnel consistently in order to find the right balance whilst Sarri has been stubborn picking the same players and the same formation whilst calling out the players lack of motivation.

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13 minutes ago, Hand&Flower said:

True, Sarri COULD win a trophy on Sunday, but it would require him to change his team and tactics to do so. Something we all know he has so far been too stubborn to do.

As for this hype about "Sarriball", its just pocession at all costs, keep the ball. Dont play probing passes or crosses, as that just risks giving the ball to the opposition. It creates very few chances, bores the spectators senseless, and inevitably will be Sarris own downfall...

 

That's not what it is. But yes we probably won't win.

But I thought that in the fa cup final last year and I thought that in 2012. Football can be surprising 

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So what is this mythical "Sarriball" then ?   High press and pocession?  Having a falcrum that just plays it sideways or to the back four?  Other teams just surrender pocession knowing we will create next to no goal scoring opporutnities, while better sides will target our weak midfield in the knowledge they can do that for 90 minutes as Sarri is bereft of any other ideas other than subbing Kovacic for Barclay (or vice versa).

I have witnessed some poor coaches at Chelsea but he is the most technically nieve I can recall in that he persists with what obviously doesnt work, and doesnt react when the game is being lost in front of him.

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24 minutes ago, Hand&Flower said:

So what is this mythical "Sarriball" then ?   High press and pocession?  Having a falcrum that just plays it sideways or to the back four?  Other teams just surrender pocession knowing we will create next to no goal scoring opporutnities, while better sides will target our weak midfield in the knowledge they can do that for 90 minutes as Sarri is bereft of any other ideas other than subbing Kovacic for Barclay (or vice versa).

I have witnessed some poor coaches at Chelsea but he is the most technically nieve I can recall in that he persists with what obviously doesnt work, and doesnt react when the game is being lost in front of him.

Fast one touch passing, inviting the press, players moving into space, lots of triangles. Retention of possession in tight areas to create space elsewhere. The ball needs to move significantly faster than we do for a start. If we play through hazard then it opens up space for kante and Pedro on the right.

It's not that complex, I've seen glimpses at Chelsea. But nothing like at Napoli as we are so so so slow. 

Teams targeting jorginho is great, that's what we want. Unfortunately the players around aren't doing enough to create the space to move around them. Jorginho is made worse because the other players around him aren't moving. Jorginho isn't meant to be holding onto possession long enough to get tackled out the game. 

 

I say all of this with a view that Sarri is out of his depth and should be sacked. I'm just explaining what Sarri ball would look like in time if we had the right players. 

Edited by bisright1

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10 hours ago, Hand&Flower said:

True, Sarri COULD win a trophy on Sunday, but it would require him to change his team and tactics to do so. Something we all know he has so far been too stubborn to do.

As for this hype about "Sarriball", its just pocession at all costs, keep the ball. Dont play probing passes or crosses, as that just risks giving the ball to the opposition. It creates very few chances, bores the spectators senseless, and inevitably will be Sarris own downfall...

 

Funny you posted that as a good mate and fellow Chelsea fan said to me this week that the ultimate realisation of Sarriball is 100% possession stats but a 0 - 0 score.

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Fast one touch passing, inviting the press, players moving into space, lots of triangles. Retention of possession in tight areas to create space elsewhere. The ball needs to move significantly faster than we do for a start. If we play through hazard then it opens up space for kante and Pedro on the right.
It's not that complex, I've seen glimpses at Chelsea. But nothing like at Napoli as we are so so so slow. 
Teams targeting jorginho is great, that's what we want. Unfortunately the players around aren't doing enough to create the space to move around them. Jorginho is made worse because the other players around him aren't moving. Jorginho isn't meant to be holding onto possession long enough to get tackled out the game. 
 
I say all of this with a view that Sarri is out of his depth and should be sacked. I'm just explaining what Sarri ball would look like in time if we had the right players. 


Yes, that's what we want to see. And yet it's become obvious that is impossible with the current squad. I still feel the sack is too soon. I'd like to see where the team lies at the end of the season, have the board decide if that is acceptable given the tools he's had to work with and then maybe give him another 6 months to show improvement with new blood and a full preseason. I don't know how some fans can complain about the short-sighted nature of the board and then call for his head so soon. And in the same breath question the decision of the under pressure manager to not play youth.

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Double post, so please delete one of them.
 
On a seperate note, if Sarri does go, I think it'll be Zola until the end of the season with JT and/or Cudicini.  Summer then itll be Zidane
Am fine with Zola till the end of the season but Zidane is a big NO for me, he is inexperienced and won't give the kids a chance. He should be the least option for us. We should be looking at someone who knows this league and is willing to work with the current squad while viewing any new signing as just a bonus. Most managers who come here with expectations that the board will continue to back them in transfer window don't last. And the change of managers every now and then will affect the players especially the young ones. I hope the next manager stay for atleast 3 seasons, and that will happen only if we bring the right person.

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Are you ready for this rumour..
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Former CSKA Moscow, Hull and Russia boss Leonid Slutsky is a friend of Abramovich's and could be an option. (Independent) #CFC
 
NOOOOOO!
Better than Zidane for me.

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I think if Sarri does show signs that he can adapt here then it will help. The thing is, he is capable of adapting; he did it at Napoli with changing to 4231 and also 4111, then 433. He is able to do it, so I'm unsure why he wouldn't in England.
Pep did it in his first season, but obviously he has mentioned he prefers to continue with plan A and improve it. This is why Pep is arguably the best coach in the world though. He is constantly thinking outside the box. 
When Sarri changed to the 4-3-3 formation, he got an identity, he became famous for his attacking football now known as Sarriball. I think it's a dream come true for him, and he won't like to wake up from that dream by changing the formation.

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If Sarri gets out of this and gets us firing again, their will be a hell of a lot of back tracking on here.
Well, beginning of the season when we were on a winning run, I still wasn't convinced about his system because yes, we were winning games consecutively but at the same time we were very weak defensively, we never played a single match this season without giving the opponents clear cut chances to score us back which most of our opponents missed and that played to our advantage in the beginning of the season. But since late last year, every team in the league have eventually settled and are now working towards there respective goals for the season. The league is tougher now than in the beginning of the season because we have teams trying there possible best to avoid relegation, some are trying there best to finish in the top 10, some are trying to be in top 4 while some are also trying to win the league. So each single game is vital, you have to study your opponent before you play them, so it's no surprise that we now find the league more difficult than in the beginning of the season because other teams know what to expect whenever they play us.
Even if Sarri stays beyond this season and he eventually gets the world class players that fits his system, we will play one of the finest football in the world and we will beat weaker teams easily. But the crucial games against the top teams or cup finals will be lost due to his devotion to a specific pattern of play. It will just be a matter of time before his supporters and the board wake up to the fact that playing good football doesn't always mean success but winning trophies matters most.

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I am a bit tired of this view. 
Conte never changed his formation. He always kept 5 at the back. He maintained Bakayoko in the team until the bitter end. It was so painful. Sarri is just a slightly more extreme version of Conte in his stubborness.
Just because Conte changed formation after 6 games, doesnt mean he reacted or adapted. He just let the team fail before he brought in his own style. Then he persisted with it for the next 2 years. 
Am a bit tired of you saying Conte played with 5 defenders, there is a big difference between 5-3-2 and 3-5-2.

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That's not what it is. But yes we probably won't win.
But I thought that in the fa cup final last year and I thought that in 2012. Football can be surprising 
Well, if there is one thing I learnt in the Fa cup last year and the champions league final in 2012, it's the fact that a tactical chang sometimes can give an average team the edge over a much more superior team.

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WTH with all the Conte beat up here? Yes, he was awful last season and towards the end of the season we were terrible, lost the last game 3:0 to Newcastle. However, he was able to get everyone onboard for the FA cup final, setup the team to maximize the chances of winning, and won it deservedly against the odds. And wait, he was up against Jose, the guy who'd do anything to win a cup , and got a pretty track record once he's in the final. It was no fluke, Conte delivered it when it counted, even just for one big final. Over 2 years, his performance as a manager is good, he was let go because he acted like a p1ssed off kid not getting his lunch box packed every press conference, there's only that much sh1t people could handle.

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5 minutes ago, icecoolguy22 said:

WTH with all the Conte beat up here? Yes, he was awful last season and towards the end of the season we were terrible, lost the last game 3:0 to Newcastle. However, he was able to get everyone onboard for the FA cup final, setup the team to maximize the chances of winning, and won it deservedly against the odds. And wait, he was up against Jose, the guy who'd do anything to win a cup , and got a pretty track record once he's in the final. It was no fluke, Conte delivered it when it counted, even just for one big final. Over 2 years, his performance as a manager is good, he was let go because he acted like a p1ssed off kid not getting his lunch box packed every press conference, there's only that much sh1t people could handle.

Conte proved that the club was wrong and that he was right, he went out as a winner by his own terms. He said that the team is not good enough and that can can only play defensive, ugly football.

Club thought he was wrong, brought in Sarri and now Sarri is saying that players are fine just not motivation and fighting spirit.

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30 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Conte proved that the club was wrong and that he was right, he went out as a winner by his own terms. He said that the team is not good enough and that can can only play defensive, ugly football.

Club thought he was wrong, brought in Sarri and now Sarri is saying that players are fine just not motivation and fighting spirit.

We finished 5th in the league. winning one final in a competition that we only had to beat a poor united to win. He spent the the whole year moaning and setting us up so negatively  What's up with all the revisionism. 

I haven't forgotten our performances against Tottenham and city last year

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Watching TV and they are previewing Sundays game, the way they are talking about us and the tactics we will implement you would think city were playing Burton Albion in the final, how the mighty have fallen, why o why are we persisting with this clown, the clubs being reactive instead of proactive, a final on Sunday and our most hated rivals on Wednesday who could do double over us for over 50 years and he's still here. If someone says who? Well any caretaker would be better than Sarri 

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1 hour ago, wallosh said:

Am a bit tired of you saying Conte played with 5 defenders, there is a big difference between 5-3-2 and 3-5-2.

I’m a bit tired of people saying conte played 3/5 at the back when in fact it was a flat back 10 with a lone striker. 

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34 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

We finished 5th in the league. winning one final in a competition that we only had to beat a poor united to win. He spent the the whole year moaning and setting us up so negatively  What's up with all the revisionism. 

I haven't forgotten our performances against Tottenham and city last year

Conte was first in january before the season fell apart. Sarri got in his first season his own player from Napoli and then his favorite striker, still lost 4:0,6:0...

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18 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Conte was first in january before the season fell apart. Sarri got in his first season his own player from Napoli and then his favorite striker, still lost 4:0,6:0...

Sarri is irrelevant. 

Conte was not a good manager because Sarri is a bad one now. Conte blew that team up. He forced Costa out, in my opinion he was behind matic leaving too. He was the one pushing for average Serie A players joining us and he made our football so negative it became painful to watch. 

Just because Sarri is bad and because he beat united in a one off game doesn't change the fact that Conte was a negative influence on our club in that second season and he had to be fired. 

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