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Sarri - In or Out?


Sarri In or Out?  

231 members have voted

  1. 1. IN or OUT

    • IN
      98
    • OUT
      116
    • Shake it all about
      10
    • You do the Hokey Cokey
      7


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28 minutes ago, JM7 said:

For me it would be harsh to sack him before he’s even had chance to win the EL. You could argue a top 4 place was within his grasp and it’s looking like he’s failed that target though. 

All I can say is....what a mess. 

His record in Europe with Napoli doesn't make me have faith in our chances to win against a good team in a potential final. Basically we would either be read like a book or Sarri would play a false 9 Hazard.

But I really can't say, I don't think that our team is good enough to win the final if we reach it, maybe if we get there and play Napoli we would have the best chance because at least in that case Sarri knows Napoli, but then again Ancelotti would maybe be cheeky and surprise us...

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I thought one of the best quotes I read was when Conte was appointed and he said that the coach was a tailor and had to stitch together the parts he had.  The first 3 or 4 games were underwhelming, he changed, and we took off from there.  Jose was also a master of adapting and changing things when things weren't working.  What I think frustrates us is that Sarri is not the one to adapt and change.  He's looking for the players to do it. He's being stubborn and when things aren't working, he digs his heels in and continues to do the same things, but for some reason, expects a different result (the definition of insanity).  

A manager is supposed to figure out how to get the best out of his employees.  When you manage people, you tell them what your expectations are for them, and you create an environment that helps them meet (or exceed) those expectations.  If they don't, you figure out why, and correct it.  If that still doesn't work, you find others who will.  The other issue is that Sarri continues with the same players he accuses of being mentally weak, or those that don't move the ball as he wants.  There's no consequence for not doing what he's asking.

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1 hour ago, Boston Blue said:

I thought one of the best quotes I read was when Conte was appointed and he said that the coach was a tailor and had to stitch together the parts he had.  The first 3 or 4 games were underwhelming, he changed, and we took off from there.  Jose was also a master of adapting and changing things when things weren't working.  What I think frustrates us is that Sarri is not the one to adapt and change.  He's looking for the players to do it. He's being stubborn and when things aren't working, he digs his heels in and continues to do the same things, but for some reason, expects a different result (the definition of insanity).  

A manager is supposed to figure out how to get the best out of his employees.  When you manage people, you tell them what your expectations are for them, and you create an environment that helps them meet (or exceed) those expectations.  If they don't, you figure out why, and correct it.  If that still doesn't work, you find others who will.  The other issue is that Sarri continues with the same players he accuses of being mentally weak, or those that don't move the ball as he wants.  There's no consequence for not doing what he's asking.

A lot of good points for me.

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2 hours ago, Boston Blue said:

I thought one of the best quotes I read was when Conte was appointed and he said that the coach was a tailor and had to stitch together the parts he had.  The first 3 or 4 games were underwhelming, he changed, and we took off from there.  Jose was also a master of adapting and changing things when things weren't working.  What I think frustrates us is that Sarri is not the one to adapt and change.  He's looking for the players to do it. He's being stubborn and when things aren't working, he digs his heels in and continues to do the same things, but for some reason, expects a different result (the definition of insanity).  

A manager is supposed to figure out how to get the best out of his employees.  When you manage people, you tell them what your expectations are for them, and you create an environment that helps them meet (or exceed) those expectations.  If they don't, you figure out why, and correct it.  If that still doesn't work, you find others who will.  The other issue is that Sarri continues with the same players he accuses of being mentally weak, or those that don't move the ball as he wants.  There's no consequence for not doing what he's asking.

The same Conte who adapted once, worked for a year, didn’t adapt again and become yet another manager that realised sitting on a beach is more fun than working with the Chelsea bull that comes with a dumb board and ahole players. 

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I thought one of the best quotes I read was when Conte was appointed and he said that the coach was a tailor and had to stitch together the parts he had.  The first 3 or 4 games were underwhelming, he changed, and we took off from there.  Jose was also a master of adapting and changing things when things weren't working.  What I think frustrates us is that Sarri is not the one to adapt and change.  He's looking for the players to do it. He's being stubborn and when things aren't working, he digs his heels in and continues to do the same things, but for some reason, expects a different result (the definition of insanity).  
A manager is supposed to figure out how to get the best out of his employees.  When you manage people, you tell them what your expectations are for them, and you create an environment that helps them meet (or exceed) those expectations.  If they don't, you figure out why, and correct it.  If that still doesn't work, you find others who will.  The other issue is that Sarri continues with the same players he accuses of being mentally weak, or those that don't move the ball as he wants.  There's no consequence for not doing what he's asking.


I've said before that you can liken Jose and Conte to tailors ; Pep and Sarri to fashionistas. Sarri was brought here to implement his philosophy, whether that takes precedence over short term goals - only he and the board will know.

Yes a manager is here to figure out how to get the best out his players but that will always be within the scope of how he wants the team to play. You say he has to find players who can meet his expectations as if the ones on the bench are actually better than the XI he selects. His selection and subs were spot on against Everton, we had as good a first half as we could hope to have and yet...... So I ask you this -

Would Conte's first season surprise work with this squad? No, not enough goals and the squad is less experienced. Would Pep be more successful than Sarri with this squad? No, again not enough goals, ill-suited fullbacks and unbalanced midfield.

There are a few reasons why I don't want Sarri to be sacked but chief among them is that I don't think any other manager would fare much better with this squad. Barring an absolutely disastrous run, I want to see him given at least two seasons with backing from the board.

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2 hours ago, cuppaT said:

The same Conte who adapted once, worked for a year, didn’t adapt again and become yet another manager that realised sitting on a beach is more fun than working with the Chelsea bull that comes with a dumb board and ahole players. 

Well from his own perspective he didn't need to stand the board any longer as they didn't share his vision for the club, he was saying that with the current players there is no way to play differently and that he wants new big signings. But the board didn't listen to him, even after he won the league in his first season.

Conte sees himself as a winner and he didn't want to put himself lower than that, once he realised that the club doesn't share his vision and ambition he was never going to stay, and you can't blame him for that.

After all, he did adapt, but Pep and Klopp didn't need to adapt as they just needed their respective clubs to continue backing them for real, one can only do so much adapting once it's really obvious that the club is actually going backwards and falling behind their rivals.

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On 17/03/2019 at 14:40, Bobbywoodhogan said:

I think for now we just have to think of this season. Getting CL football is vital imo. 

I agree CL is definitely important given the transfer ban ahead. I just hope if we go that route (firing Sarri) then the club is also preparing for the next manager behind the scenes vs what happened with Sarri's hiring in the summer. I'd hate for us to be scrambling to hire a manager again in the summer

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4 hours ago, venom2011 said:

So I ask you this -

Would Conte's first season surprise work with this squad? No, not enough goals and the squad is less experienced. Would Pep be more successful than Sarri with this squad? No, again not enough goals, ill-suited fullbacks and unbalanced midfield.

 

There is no way we can know if what you’ve said is true, it’s a complete hypothetical. Personally think they’d both have done have done better, at least with Conte we wouldn’t be getting sucker punched with one counter and then having to chase the game. 

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Unless we really click and blow teams away 3-4 games in a row, I think he's gone at the end of the year regardless of Champions League qualification.

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19 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

In the 10 Premier League games we have played this calendar year:

4 wins, 4 losses, 2 draws. 

14 points from a possible 30. 

12 goals scored, 17 conceded giving a -5 goal difference. 

We have scored a first half goal in only 3 of these 10 games.  

 

Doesn't make for pretty reading does it? Personally I don't think it's good enough and think a change of manager at the end of the season is the best way to take us forward. 

Totally agree with change of manager, but let's do it now, if we leave till summer the board will f**k about all through summer and a manager will appear two days before season, let's be honest if he somehow navigates us to a Europa final it's obvious we will lose it, the blokes track record is of a loser. 

I will ask the question again who the hell sanctioned this appointment, a bloke that's won Jack sh*t in his career, takes a club with no history of winning anything (no pressure)to second in the Italian league, not first but second, remember the Italian league isn't like it was in early 90's it's the 4th or 5th league in Europe nowadays, and he has this mythical style of play that is basically tedious or in a more technical term sh*t! In god's name GO!!!!!

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6 hours ago, venom2011 said:

Would Pep be more successful than Sarri with this squad? No

 

Blimey... 

The bloke who's won everything going and won trophies everywhere he's been wouldn't be more successful than the guy who once got a team playing some decent football but hasn't actually won anything. 

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8 hours ago, venom2011 said:

There are a few reasons why I don't want Sarri to be sacked but chief among them is that I don't think any other manager would fare much better with this squad. Barring an absolutely disastrous run, I want to see him given at least two seasons with backing from the board.

 

He doesn't have to fare much better. All he had to do is make sure we have a CL football next year which is absolutely critical in terms of our finances (we've missed a few recently), our status as a top club and our potential transfer dealings.

There's still time to kick him to the kerb and bring in Steve Holland to steady the ship and focus on the EL win, because through Sarri's incompetence that's the only realistic chance to get into the next season's CL we've got left.

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Blimey... 
The bloke who's won everything going and won trophies everywhere he's been wouldn't be more successful than the guy who once got a team playing some decent football but hasn't actually won anything. 


Apologies, I had no idea Pep has won everything, everywhere in every season....

So the notion that this squad without a proper goalscorer, creaky defence, and an unbalanced midfield would not be successful under Pep confuses you? My word, do you think the man is some sort of magician? He couldn't even do anything when he arrived and he had 2 of the 3 points above. He had the best midfield in the league and the best goalscorer.

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11 hours ago, cuppaT said:

The same Conte who adapted once, worked for a year, didn’t adapt again and become yet another manager that realised sitting on a beach is more fun than working with the Chelsea bull that comes with a dumb board and ahole players. 

I’m as disappointed as anyone regarding Conte’s change of attitude & mentality in his second season. 

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Out for the pure reason he is alienating some our best players, ie the youngsters. Conte introduced CHO Ampadu and Christensen to the team, and i feel like Sarri has stunted all of their growth. Its not just a case of them progressing but with CHO Loftus and Christensen, they are actually better that Sarris so called best eleven equivalents. If after failing again and again with these same players all season, and refusing to change, how is it going to get any better in the future. 

The difference with pep and Klopp was in their first few seasons, they got rid of the old deadwood. With Sarri its like the opposite, lets play people who are past it and shouldnt be in our first team now, let alone next year. 

If this continues Bayern will take CHO, Juve/Man City will be back in for Christensen and yet again this club will sell two players destined for the top. 

And for people blaming the board, they blocked both players leaving, its not their fault Sarris refuses to play them.

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He doesn't have to fare much better. All he had to do is make sure we have a CL football next year which is absolutely critical in terms of our finances (we've missed a few recently), our status as a top club and our potential transfer dealings.
There's still time to kick him to the kerb and bring in Steve Holland to steady the ship and focus on the EL win, because through Sarri's incompetence that's the only realistic chance to get into the next season's CL we've got left.



No, unfortunately that is not all he's had to do. If it was just a matter of sneaking into the top 4 he might have been more pragmatic , or maybe wouldn't have taken the job. He has had to transform the style of the club AND meet those targets. And that is a super difficult task even with huge backing.

We are 4 points from third, how is winning the EL the only realistic chance we have left? Again, you speak of incompetence as if someone else would have fared better. Please tell me who and why.

That first half against Everton was a joy for me to watch. It was better than ANYTHING we have played under Conte. And at the same time I understand that we don't have the goalscorers to fully realise this system, so my expectations are always tempered.

Personally, I could give two sh*ts about sneaking into the top 4, firing yet another manager, seeing the club unwilling to properly back the next guy, having an underwhelming next season with dog sh*t football - rinse and repeat. I have enjoyed parts of this transformation, I want to see the system realised as much as possible, and as a fan I'm willing to accept the blips along the way.

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Some people are deluded or have very short memories!

Anyone else when opening up their internet browser at the moment half expecting to see headlines of "Sarri sacked by Chelsea"?

 

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4 minutes ago, Nibs said:

Some people are deluded or have very short memories!

Anyone else when opening up their internet browser at the moment half expecting to see headlines of "Sarri sacked by Chelsea"?

 

I expect to see these headlines: 

"Roman tells England to feck off from his Yacht as he announces he sells Chelsea FC to a Rat!", 

"Sarri still confused about his players mentality",   

"The Betrayal! Eden Hazard leaves Chelsea for Real Madrid- Player states on twitter he was side fecking with Madrid for 3 years."  

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47 minutes ago, venom2011 said:

So the notion that this squad without a proper goalscorer, creaky defence, and an unbalanced midfield would not be successful under Pep confuses you? My word, do you think the man is some sort of magician?

 

Magician? No. 

Hugely successful coach who's won things everywhere he's gone? Yup. 

I mean the creaky defence and unbalanced midfield has a lot to do with Sarri.

He's the one that's reverted to a back four and is playing Alonso and Luiz despite evidence that their better suited to back 3. 

He's the one that's bought in Jorginho and Kovacic and moved Kante to a new position as part of a midfield 3. 

It's pure speculation second guessing what Pep would or wouldn't do with this current squad but there would likely be a lot more flexibility and experimentation to try and get the best out of them. You only have to contrast what Pep does at City and did in his first season there to what Sarri has done to see that. 

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I reckon the players are a big part of the issue, we have a squad which is tailor made for Counter attacking football and we look our most dangerous when we win the ball deep in our half and break at pace. The problems we are encountering are pretty obvious, Sarri is looking to implement a complete overhaul of our footballing style and this change will take longer than 1 season.

The board (and the fans to a certain extent) have a decision to make here, either we back our Manager and have patience & trust within the process. The drawback to this is that we have a Manager who doesn't have trophies on his CV but he has experience of building a formidable team playing possession based football.

The alternative to this is to stick with the brand of football we are suited to which is fast counter attacking football with a strong backline protected by Kante, we are likely to get far more success (especially short term) adopting this method, the drawback to this solution would be the danger of being left behind whilst the footballing world moves on to a different footballing philosophy.

I personally do not mind the counter attacking football especially against the stronger teams in the league but we need to get a Manager in who may be a little more flexible in there ideas especially during the transitional phase.

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Posted (edited)

I have made my mind up, I think he needs to go. It's very rare I ever say that about any coach, but I think all things considered (which I will explain below) he has to go.

For me, the transfer ban and Hazard very likely leaving changes everything. It would mean we would have to trust Sarri to lead us through a transitional period, one where we shouldn't expect much success when it comes to winning trophies or even competing for top 4 next season. For somebody like Sarri, that shouldn't be a problem, he's done that throughout his career as a manager. The problem I have with him is building a team to be ready to compete with the big teams again once we get through this period.

What Sarri has shown this season is that he is stubborn, I worry that that stubborn attitude will slow down our transition rather than improve it. I don't think Sarri will bring through youngsters, or adapt his tactics on a game by game basis to help the team actually gain any kind of momentum. I think he will continue to stick by the same senior players, the players that will most likely need to be replaced by 2020, and I don't think he will give the young players or some of the other squad players a chance to gain enough experience next season to be properly prepared and adjusted for the 2020-21 season. I think with Sarri in charge, we will lose Hudson-Odoi for free, because I have no confidence that Sarri will actually play him ahead of more experienced players like Willian and Pedro often enough or at all in the league and especially in the big games. 

In my opinion, if we stick with Sarri though this period, we will be in a position where we need a massive overhaul in the 2020 summer transfer window. I just don't believe he will be able to create a squad that you have confidence in going forward, and I don't believe we will be able to get him the players he will inevitably need by the time the 2020-21 season arrives. 

We need a coach that will adapt his tactics depending on the situation, we need a coach that will be able to get us looking like a team that is ready to take on the 2020-21 season with confidence and without needing to replace half of the team. I don't see this being possible with Sarri. I actually think with Sarri, we will gain no confidence out of next season and we will end up going backwards.

I'm all for backing the manager, but it's got to be the right manager, and I don't think Sarri is the right man to lead the squad through this period at the club.

Edited by Scott Harris

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Magician? No. 

Hugely successful coach who's won things everywhere he's gone? Yup. 

I mean the creaky defence and unbalanced midfield has a lot to do with Sarri.

He's the one that's reverted to a back four and is playing Alonso and Luiz despite evidence that their better suited to back 3. 

He's the one that's bought in Jorginho and Kovacic and moved Kante to a new position as part of a midfield 3. 

It's pure speculation second guessing what Pep would or wouldn't do with this current squad but there would likely be a lot more flexibility and experimentation to try and get the best out of them. You only have to contrast what Pep does at City and did in his first season there to what Sarri has done to see that. 

The "leaky" defense can also be attributed to not having Kante as protection in front of them.  I understand that Sarri does not use a defensive midfielder, but Kante prevented a lot of situations from getting to the defenders

Edited by Boston Blue

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, venom2011 said:


 

 

 


No, unfortunately that is not all he's had to do. If it was just a matter of sneaking into the top 4 he might have been more pragmatic , or maybe wouldn't have taken the job. He has had to transform the style of the club AND meet those targets. And that is a super difficult task even with huge backing.

We are 4 points from third, how is winning the EL the only realistic chance we have left? Again, you speak of incompetence as if someone else would have fared better. Please tell me who and why.

That first half against Everton was a joy for me to watch. It was better than ANYTHING we have played under Conte. And at the same time I understand that we don't have the goalscorers to fully realise this system, so my expectations are always tempered.

Personally, I could give two sh*ts about sneaking into the top 4, firing yet another manager, seeing the club unwilling to properly back the next guy, having an underwhelming next season with dog sh*t football - rinse and repeat. I have enjoyed parts of this transformation, I want to see the system realised as much as possible, and as a fan I'm willing to accept the blips along the way.

 

 

Sarri is not a winner. He may be a nice guy, a great student of the game who wants to implement an aesthetically pleasing playing style, but he has no idea how to deliver results when all's on the line. That's why I don't believe we'll reach the top four or win the EL.There are plenty of examples this season when I thought it was a good time to turn things around, go on a winning streak, stake your claim as a top manager and convince everybody he's the real deal. He failed time and again, and more often than not, against inferior opposition. Being a winner is a rare ability, that's why the likes of Mourinho, Guardiola, Zidane etc. are considered elite. They know how to handle pressure and how to find a way to win.

You don't care about finishing in the top four, but I guarantee you the club does, and for a good reason. I can also guarantee you that Sarri was told when hired that qualifying for the CL place is an absolute must. You don't seriously think they just told him to enjoy himself and who cares where we end up come the end of the season? He wouldn't have taken the job? Yeah right, because there was a long line of top clubs we were fighting off in order to acquire his services. Sarri was lucky to get the Chelsea job, this is the biggest test of his carrer to date, it was us offering him a chance on the biggest stage at one of Europe's elite clubs.

As for the first half against Everton being a joy to watch, it's just another example of how far we've fallen under Sarri. Nowadays looking good while scoring nothing for 45 minutes against the 11th placed side in the league is considered something worth gushing over.

Edited by abramovich

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