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I agree and that's why I made the point. There is a certain irony in someone pleading guilty to something they did not do and being treated more kindly as a result. Although, on closer examination our legal system encourages such things because those who plead guilty get lighter sanctions. 

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@Brutos can I just ask you what, in the specific case of the fan that was banned, your evidence is that he was being racist and not just shouting "Manc c**t". Although I agree with you that racism is still a massive problem in this country, and in our club, I think you are being a bit narrow minded in this case.

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1 hour ago, Osborne3 said:

"Britain is one of the most open and tolerant Societies in the world you cannot argue that" So you would disagree with that statement. You would take argument with that based on the fact that in the 50's and 60's some racism occured. London is majority non-white, why would a intolerant racist society make that happen. I have seen racism towards every race from every other race, that doesn't then inform me that every argument had between two people of those races is because of racist reasons. 

I haven’t lived in every country so I am not qualified as to where to rate it’s tolerance level, for one. You still didn’t answer the question by the way,so let’s agree that you are not qualified to make such definitive statements about reasons of emigration shall we.

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44 minutes ago, kennypaul said:

I haven’t lived in every country so I am not qualified as to where to rate it’s tolerance level, for one. You still didn’t answer the question by the way,so let’s agree that you are not qualified to make such definitive statements about reasons of emigration shall we.

I don't care if you think I am qualified haha. So no, I will agree to disagree with you. 

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What we're witnessing here is very sad. There are people such as Brutos who can't see (or refuse to see) that when a white man sacks a black football manager (for example) it may not have anything to do with race, it may just be (for example) that the team's results aren't any good. Similarly, they can't see that when a white fan screams at a black player, it may not have anything to do with race, and it may just be because passions run high and the player in question plays for a rival or has just kicked one of our players up in the air. In other words, you can sack a white manager or scream at a white player but you can't do the same to a black person (if you're white) or else you're a racist, and if you oppose this view you must be a racist yourself or an apologist for racism or simply in denial, as Brutos has claimed.

 

Sadly this is the world we live in. Victimhood is rife and so is stupidity.

 

 

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i am a black chelsea supporter, and it is a difficult subject to get into really. 

It feels like a bit of a PR exercise in my opinion. The 5 other fans that received a 1-2 year suspension, have been punished for acting like fans do all over the country. Im not saying its right or wrong to aggresively shout at a player like that, but it is no more than what goes on in every game up and down the country. 

With regards to the alleged racism. While i do find it slightly strange that he would call him a manc c**t anyway, (would anyone up north refer to barkley as Cockney just because he plays for a london club?),  The guy has been cleared by police, in what was a high profile investigation, how the club can then come to a different conclusion sits uneasily with me, as it did with JT. 

I get @Brutos point, racist language doesnt necessarily need to be used in racist behaviour, but there is no way of knowing whether the aggression shown towards sterling was racially aggrevated. That is hardest thing about stopping racism. As a society we can do our best to stop racist language, and discrimination, but we cant punish peoples thoughts, and we cant attach racism to every white guy that is aggresive towards a black guy. 

The club have used this opportunity to make example, its good PR for the club, and we are trying to stop racism in club. The only person who knows whether they are right or wrong though, is the man involved. 

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Compare name calling to real, hardcore black on white violence and racism that's going on in countries,  with everyone too scared to even talk about it for fear of being called a racist.

Just do a search for a breakdown of crime stats in America. Look at stats where the attacker is white and the victim.black. then the other way round. Then do a pro rata of population of blacks and whites. You will be gobsmacked.

Check out what "polar bear hunting" is. Again, the media to sh*t scared to call it what it is, so they trivialise it and call it the knockout game, that's if the attacks are reported at all.

In South Africa we have the EFF party, who's longterm aim is to rid the country of whites. If they don't leave then they will be massacred. Whites being attacked and killed day in day out and not a whisper from anyone. Turning into another Zimbabwe.

Sweden , opens its doors to large scale immigration and sees rape rise by 2000% and now has over 60 no go areas for police and white Swedes.

Over here. A white person attacks a black person it's often called a racist attack. Other way round its am attack.

There's racist c**ts all over the world and yes, SOME of them are black too.

.

 

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3 hours ago, Brutos said:

Because of the connotations associated with a white man shouting at a black man is it that hard comprehend. White man shouting at black man in the cotton fields, white man shouting at black man to get out of the shop get off the bus go to the back, white man shouting at black man to go home....wait is that in the 60's or 2019....emoji848.pngemoji848.pngemoji848.png
 

So are you saying no white man is ever allowed to shout at a black man ever, no matter what the situation? 

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On 31/07/2019 at 10:37, EdinburghBlue said:

That’s quite embarrassing for you then isn’t it? You don’t care someone’s life could be ruined for something that he hasn’t done (hence why he’s not been prosecuted). If you don’t like people shouting abuse at football you’re 100% correct in staying away. Maybe try watching cricket or tennis? You can politely applaud both teams/players after every bit of action. 

 

Football is a passionate sport, whether you’re playing it or supporting a side in it. That’s the nature of the game. To brand everything racist is cringeworthy. Your line ‘you can see the racially charge intention in his abuse’ gave me a particular chuckle. You can’t see f**k all, except over the top passion. So if anyone gets in an argument with someone of another race it’s instantly a racially charged argument? Not a chance.

 

the clubs hypocrisy stinks as well, backed JT to the hilt but not our own fans, even when there was arguably more evidence against Terry.

Only if its a white man arguing against a person of colour.

I'm sure if it was a black man shouting at David Silva that day then @Brutos would have found nothing wrong with the incident.

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38 minutes ago, Dixons said:

 

Sweden , opens its doors to large scale immigration and sees rape rise by 2000% and now has over 60 no go areas for police and white Swedes.

 

.

 

Just to call out fake stats... there are no "no go" zones in Sweden where the police cant go, and neither has cases of rape risen by 2000%... This is bollocks 

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18 minutes ago, Dixons said:

Compare name calling to real, hardcore black on white violence and racism that's going on in countries,  with everyone too scared to even talk about it for fear of being called a racist.

Just do a search for a breakdown of crime stats in America. Look at stats where the attacker is white and the victim.black. then the other way round. Then do a pro rata of population of blacks and whites. You will be gobsmacked.

Check out what "polar bear hunting" is. Again, the media to sh*t scared to call it what it is, so they trivialise it and call it the knockout game, that's if the attacks are reported at all.

In South Africa we have the EFF party, who's longterm aim is to rid the country of whites. If they don't leave then they will be massacred. Whites being attacked and killed day in day out and not a whisper from anyone. Turning into another Zimbabwe.

Sweden , opens its doors to large scale immigration and sees rape rise by 2000% and now has over 60 no go areas for police and white Swedes.

Over here. A white person attacks a black person it's often called a racist attack. Other way round its am attack.

There's racist c**ts all over the world and yes, SOME of them are black too.

.

 

I dread to think what sources you use for your stats, but this is so outrageously exaggerated that I had to do some research. 

Here are some official stats to disprove yours:

Quote

Reported offences

In 2018, a total of 22,500 sex offences were reported; this is a 2 per cent increase as compared with 2017. The number of rapes reported to police increased by 8 per cent to 7,960 between 2017 and 2018.

The number of reported rape offences has increased by 34 per cent over the last ten years (2009-2018). The increase can be partially explained by changes in the legislation, as from 1 July 2013, the sex offence legislation was made tougher; among other things rape was expanded to include cases where the victim reacts passively.

Other, far-reaching changes in the legislation were made on 1 April 2005. This legislation entails, among other things, that certain acts which were previously classified as sexual exploitation are now classified as rape. The effect of the statutory change appeared in the statistics such that the number of reported offences in respect of sexual coercion and exploitation declined in the years immediately following the statutory change while the number of reported rapes increased.

https://www.bra.se/bra-in-english/home/crime-and-statistics/rape-and-sex-offences.html

Your post gives some massively, absurdly exaggerated figure which it attributes to 'immigration'. It turns out that Trump (using Fox News as his source) and Farage have been behind spreading of these wild claims (I wonder why), which have been easily debunked.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/crime-sweden-rape-capital-europe/

As for these '60 no-go areas for police and white Swedes', 

Quote

Swedish police were quick to tell us that these so-called no-go zones do not exist. The term originated with newspaper columnist Per Gudmundson, who used it to refer to a police report identifying “problem areas” in the country, where there is a criminal milieu. In these areas, there is high crime, low socioeconomic status, and lack of social integration and cooperation which presents a special challenge to police. But Erik Jansåker, a police chief in Malmö’s southern areas (the city is often singled out as a high-crime area), told us that the term “no-go zone” never appeared in the report itself – and Gudmundson admits as much in his column. However, since he used it, the term has taken hold in the popular imagination.

Jansåker’s jurisdiction includes two “problem areas,” Malmö neighborhoods Rosengård and Seved. He told us that local investigators have been overwhelmed with the caseload from 14 recent murders — 8 to 10 in the same time span would be normal for the area – but that there aren’t areas where police can’t go.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/sweden-crime-no-go-zone-police/

Misinformation is a very, very dangerous thing:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/british-public-wrong-about-nearly-everything-survey-shows-8697821.html

https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/people-italy-and-us-are-most-wrong-key-facts-about-their-society

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2 hours ago, Davey Baby said:

What we're witnessing here is very sad. There are people such as Brutos who can't see (or refuse to see) that when a white man sacks a black football manager (for example) it may not have anything to do with race, it may just be (for example) that the team's results aren't any good. Similarly, they can't see that when a white fan screams at a black player, it may not have anything to do with race, and it may just be because passions run high and the player in question plays for a rival or has just kicked one of our players up in the air. In other words, you can sack a white manager or scream at a white player but you can't do the same to a black person (if you're white) or else you're a racist, and if you oppose this view you must be a racist yourself or an apologist for racism or simply in denial, as Brutos has claimed.

 

Sadly this is the world we live in. Victimhood is rife and so is stupidity.

 

 

Well put

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15 minutes ago, Dixons said:

My info comes from RT television                                                               

Quote
  • Overall, we rate RT Questionable based on promoting pro-Russian propaganda, promotion of conspiracy theories, numerous failed fact checks and a lack of author transparency.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/rt-news/

Your stats are fabricated.

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58 minutes ago, Backbiter said:

I dread to think what sources you use for your stats, but this is so outrageously exaggerated that I had to do some research. 

Here are some official stats to disprove yours:

Your post gives some massively, absurdly exaggerated figure which it attributes to 'immigration'. It turns out that Trump (using Fox News as his source) and Farage have been behind spreading of these wild claims (I wonder why), which have been easily debunked.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/crime-sweden-rape-capital-europe/

As for these '60 no-go areas for police and white Swedes', 

Misinformation is a very, very dangerous thing:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/british-public-wrong-about-nearly-everything-survey-shows-8697821.html

https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/people-italy-and-us-are-most-wrong-key-facts-about-their-society

My info comes from RT, which can hardly be classed as a rightwing media outlet.

Yes, you are right, the Swedish police will publicly deny there are no go areas.

RT sent in a TV crew to one of those rumoured areas and it didn't take long before the crew were physically threatened and attacked and being forced to end filming and leave the area. I saw it with my own eyes!!!

And yes again. Leftwing groups groups and parties also deny the rise in rape, but there are others who have been prepared to speak put about it. And by the way.

Also, several years ago rhe immigrant population caused the worst civil disorder ever seen in the country with weeks of rioting, looting and arson.

And by the way. Those speaking out about the social problems they are having now are not racists who want to send them back to where they came from. Far from it!! They see the problem with ghetto's and immigrants not being integrated properly and want to change that.

 

Edited by Dixons
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2 hours ago, big blue said:

i am a black chelsea supporter, and it is a difficult subject to get into really. 

It feels like a bit of a PR exercise in my opinion. The 5 other fans that received a 1-2 year suspension, have been punished for acting like fans do all over the country. Im not saying its right or wrong to aggresively shout at a player like that, but it is no more than what goes on in every game up and down the country. 

With regards to the alleged racism. While i do find it slightly strange that he would call him a manc c**t anyway, (would anyone up north refer to barkley as Cockney just because he plays for a london club?),  The guy has been cleared by police, in what was a high profile investigation, how the club can then come to a different conclusion sits uneasily with me, as it did with JT. 

I get @Brutos point, racist language doesnt necessarily need to be used in racist behaviour, but there is no way of knowing whether the aggression shown towards sterling was racially aggrevated. That is hardest thing about stopping racism. As a society we can do our best to stop racist language, and discrimination, but we cant punish peoples thoughts, and we cant attach racism to every white guy that is aggresive towards a black guy. 

The club have used this opportunity to make example, its good PR for the club, and we are trying to stop racism in club. The only person who knows whether they are right or wrong though, is the man involved. 

A balanced and fair opinion.

Racism, bigotry, oppression and discrimination in all manner of guises has been in society from it's earliest beginnings and will still be around long after we have all gone. Contrary to what the press would have you believe Chelsea FC and its fans, along with the UK as a whole are no better or worse than anywhere else, or to put it another way there are people in every society in the world that are culpable of this type of behavior, South Africa, Southern States of the USA, mainland Europe, certainly the majority of Spanish and Italian football grounds it would appear. I am not diminishing the issue but I do take issue when certain sections, press, the club, public etc, use an issue for as much political mileage as possible.

But of course such proven open displays of these attitudes are unacceptable and we all take a combined responsibility to eradicate it wherever this is proven to exist.  Looking at the posts that I have seen here nobody is defending bigotry or being an apologist.

 

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7 minutes ago, Dixons said:

So the tv crew being attacked and driven out was fabricated?  The riots fabricated?  Ordinary, decent, caring Swedes lying on camera?  Swedes who actually want to help change things for the better for ALL the people living in that country. 

RT have history of fabricating these instances they are a propaganda machine for the Russian state, anything to show discord in Europe works for them, 

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47 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

A balanced and fair opinion.

Racism, bigotry, oppression and discrimination in all manner of guises has been in society from it's earliest beginnings and will still be around long after we have all gone. Contrary to what the press would have you believe Chelsea FC and its fans, along with the UK as a whole are no better or worse than anywhere else, or to put it another way there are people in every society in the world that are culpable of this type of behavior, South Africa, Southern States of the USA, mainland Europe, certainly the majority of Spanish and Italian football grounds it would appear. I am not diminishing the issue but I do take issue when certain sections, press, the club, public etc, use an issue for as much political mileage as possible.

But of course such proven open displays of these attitudes are unacceptable and we all take a combined responsibility to eradicate it wherever this is proven to exist.  Looking at the posts that I have seen here nobody is defending bigotry or being an apologist.

 

Agreed!   And we might get somewhere if we stopped talking about racism as just a white on black issue, when it is quite clearly much, much more complicated and mixed than that. Indeed, we know the worst, most evil  racism the world has ever seen was white on white racism.                                                                                                                                                 Anyway, i've said my piece on this. Love and peace to all decent people, who are thankfully the majority, and a pox on all those silly racists.                                                                                                                                   

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22 minutes ago, Dixons said:

So the tv crew being attacked and driven out was fabricated?  The riots fabricated?  Ordinary, decent, caring Swedes lying on camera?  Swedes who actually want to help change things for the better for ALL the people living in that country. 

Care to provide evidence for your 2000% increase in rapes claim?

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13 minutes ago, Bonzodog29 said:

RT have history of fabricating these instances they are a propaganda machine for the Russian state, anything to show discord in Europe works for them, 

So a female journo was happy to have a rock thrown at her face?

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2 minutes ago, Dixons said:

So a female journo was happy to have a rock thrown at her face?

Yes defo... you have a habit of making strawman arguments, I haven't seen this doc, however as it seems to reinforce your beliefs you are assuming it is gospel. I merely point out as others have that RT is not a reliable source... again others have provided statistics that counter your claims. You have at no point provided anything substantial to back up your statements. 

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2 minutes ago, Backbiter said:

Care to provide evidence for your 2000% increase in rapes claim?

Again, it would almost certainly have been RT from a couple of years ago. Related to music festivals being  cancelled because of sexual assults.

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5 minutes ago, Bonzodog29 said:

Yes defo... you have a habit of making strawman arguments, I haven't seen this doc, however as it seems to reinforce your beliefs you are assuming it is gospel. I merely point out as others have that RT is not a reliable source... again others have provided statistics that counter your claims. You have at no point provided anything substantial to back up your statements. 

Laughable you think a woman risks a brick in the eye for something like that.  Anyway, you won't believe anything that doesn't fit with the poor black man always being the victim, so i'll leave it at that.

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4 minutes ago, Dixons said:

Laughable you think a woman risks a brick in the eye for something like that.  Anyway, you won't believe anything that doesn't fit with the poor black man always being the victim, so i'll leave it at that.

Never said anything about "poor black man" you are making that point I refer again to Strawman... I was being sarcastic but I do think you are a c**t so I am going to ignore you and then we dont have to interact anymore 

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When i see or read something i don't keep links or notes so i can use them for facts on a forum years later. So, just before i go out i did a quick google and got this from August 18 @ bbc.co.uk.  "Swedish nationl tv  says 58% of  men convicted of rape are immigrants".  So, a small minority are responsible for the majority of rapes. That would very much tie in with the rise in rape.

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