Sarri - In or Out?

[Argo]

35 minutes ago, Sindre said:

I mean, so did we. We just had our patch at the start of the season.
We have quite frankly looked average to poor in the league since before Christmas. I don't see any real positive signs going into next season with this manager and playing-style without Hazard for example. I think we will struggle and that we will be way to easy to contain for our opposition.

The so called Sarri-ball was really hyped, but in terms of style of football it's been one of the dullest seasons i can remember. To call it boring would be an understatement.

While I agree it hasn't exactly lived up to the hype (yet), it's not even the most boring football we've played for the last few years. Football under Sarri is a lot better than the monstrosity Conte produced last season and lets not get started on the Jose meltdown period.

I think since the cup final things have got a lot better, late December and January I was concerned we were looking too much like LVG's United and February I was starting to seriously doubt him but since the final our play has got a lot faster, a lot more chances are being created, Sarri has learned to rotate better than he ever has before (only Jorginho and Azpi are being overplayed) and two academy products have broken in.

I'm not 100% sold yet but all things considered he deserves the benefit of the doubt and a full pre season to see what happens, in my opinion, but next season he has to start delievering no excuses, not nesseserily a title bid because City and Liverpool are stupidly good but further evolution in the style of play is minimum requirement and if we get a transfer window results have to be improved, if we don't I can forgive a sideways season results wise.

[Guest Sindre]

4 minutes ago, Argo said:

I think since the cup final things have got a lot better, late December and January I was concerned we were looking too much like LVG's United and February I was starting to seriously doubt him but since the final our play has got a lot faster, a lot more chances are being created, Sarri has learned to rotate better than he ever has before (only Jorginho and Azpi are being overplayed) and two academy products have broken in.

But it's only about a month ago since we had large portions of our traveling and home-supporters chant "We want Sarri out" "F*** Sarri-ball" and "You don't know what you're doing" among other things.

So if we suggest we've gotten much better in march and onwards i'd say thats revisionism. We drew Wolves at home and fluked a result against Cardiff with help from the referee and get battered by Everton in March.

 

[CFCCAN]

11 minutes ago, icecoolguy22 said:

He reached the main objective with a game to spare, so earned his right to start the next season as the Chelsea manager. As the results shown, we haven't been good for the last half a dozen games, but apparently it's enough as our rivals were dropping like flies, so credit for Sarri to earn those points. Get into the Europa league final and win it would be great, he will be seen as a winner for once rather than a nearly man. I think there will still be lots of doubts on him if he fails to win the Europa league, because a club like Chelsea should be in the CL, and  need to win Europa league if ended up in there like this season.

I'l go along with your thoughts; I wanted him out and to an extent I still do unless he changes his ways and stops being so stubborn and starts seeing the obvious.  The continued selection of his 'Golden Boy'  for one has to stop especially when he plays badly, or we come up to an opponent where clearly he isn't going to get the room to play and will be bullied off the ball, but fair play to the lad the last couple of games he's dug in and perhaps the pin has dropped and he's realized what it takes to play in the this league besides talent, heart, guts and determination together with consistency plays a huge part if you want to do well. Assuming Sarri stays, In pre season he will have to work hard on our defensive frailties, whether that's different players or different tactics who knows.  Stating the obvious going forward we need someone to stick the ball in the net who has pace and strength and if Hazard does go it will be a blow for sure, but with CHO waiting in the wings we have a good young replacement.  While I'm still sitting on the Out side of the fence, if he does win the Europa League I'd give him another season but if we are struggling by Xmas he will still have to go.  

[WhiteWall]

4 minutes ago, Argo said:

While I agree it hasn't exactly lived up to the hype (yet), it's not even the most boring football we've played for the last few years. Football under Sarri is a lot better than the monstrosity Conte produced last season and lets not get started on the Jose meltdown period.

I think since the cup final things have got a lot better, late December and January I was concerned we were looking too much like LVG's United and February I was starting to seriously doubt him but since the final our play has got a lot faster, a lot more chances are being created, Sarri has learned to rotate better than he ever has before (only Jorginho and Azpi are being overplayed) and two academy products have broken in.

I'm not 100% sold yet but all things considered he deserves the benefit of the doubt and a full pre season to see what happens, in my opinion, but next season he has to start delievering no excuses, not nesseserily a title bid because City and Liverpool are stupidly good but further evolution in the style of play is minimum requirement and if we get a transfer window results have to be improved, if we don't I can forgive a sideways season results wise.

I think this is a good considered post and as you say a certain amount of hysteria should be taken out of many of our posts (mine included). 3rd hopefully, 4th definintely, EL final hopefully is a good season from where we were last year.

My concern is that in the two environments that you mention above, we were broken then and needed fixing. What i am worried about is under Sarri this is fixed...and without Hazard it's pretty toothless and turgid to watch most of teh time. The breakthrough of RLC and CHO has almost felt like he has bent to the will of the fan base. I don't feel that this has been a structured objective of his over time.

Achieve what we are on the threshold of and , as people say, the end justifies the means, but i was really looking forward to a visible progression into a new style of exciting football with our up and coming stars being given the opportunity to shine. I can't help feeling some measure of disappointment, in that whilst i appreciate where we are at now, the journey has been anything but pleasurable.

[Argo]

16 minutes ago, Sindre said:

But it's only about a month ago since we had large portions of our traveling and home-supporters chant "We want Sarri out" "F*** Sarri-ball" and "You don't know what you're doing" among other things.

So if we suggest we've gotten much better in march and onwards i'd say thats revisionism. We drew Wolves at home and fluked a result against Cardiff with help from the referee and get battered by Everton in March.

The same match going fans chanted Jose name when we were looking in genuine relegation danger, booed Hazard because he wasn't at his best while carrying an injury and sung for Torres everytime he tripped over the ball (while booing a vastly superior striker in Sturridge in the process), I don't question the loyalty of the crowd but I wouldn't trust the average fans judgement as far as I could throw them.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Argo

[Argo]

8 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

I think this is a good considered post and as you say a certain amount of hysteria should be taken out of many of our posts (mine included). 3rd hopefully, 4th definintely, EL final hopefully is a good season from where we were last year.

My concern is that in the two environments that you mention above, we were broken then and needed fixing. What i am worried about is under Sarri this is fixed...and without Hazard it's pretty toothless and turgid to watch most of teh time. The breakthrough of RLC and CHO has almost felt like he has bent to the will of the fan base. I don't feel that this has been a structured objective of his over time.

Achieve what we are on the threshold of and , as people say, the end justifies the means, but i was really looking forward to a visible progression into a new style of exciting football with our up and coming stars being given the opportunity to shine. I can't help feeling some measure of disappointment, in that whilst i appreciate where we are at now, the journey has been anything but pleasurable.

I have to disagree with him succumbing to the will of the fans. 

I think looking at their respective performances there's one reason the game time has gone up and that's the improved discipline. I said before that I wasn't too impressed with Callum on his run of PL starts from an attacking sense but he was very disciplined the other way (a trait that is very important when the other wingers Hazard) while Ruben is a much better all round player to what we saw in even November.

If he was bending to the will of the fans we would have seen Kante back in DM by now.

I would definitely agree that the season hasn't been as fun as expected however, although I do think we have done a lot of fundamentals to transitioning to the possession/attacking based style of football which can hopefully be built on.

[Guest Sindre]

11 minutes ago, Argo said:

The same match going fans chanted Jose name when we were looking in genuine relegation danger, booed Hazard because he wasn't at his best while carrying an injury and sung for Torres everytime he tripped over the ball (while booing a vastly superior striker in Sturridge in the process), I don't question the loyalty of the crowd but I wouldn't trust the average fans judgement as far as I could throw them.

Jose is our greatest manager ever so he was a special case for obvious reasons. And about Torres that's simply not true.

But anyways, the point is that we clearly didn't get much better in March and onwards. We have been poor lately too.

 

[Spiller86]

Deserves another season after making the top 4. I'm not sure he will win us PL titles but he achieved the standard that was set and bought CHO and RLC through in the process. Many of us have been clamouring for that for years.

[Guest Sindre]

5 minutes ago, Spiller86 said:

bought CHO and RLC through in the process.

That remains to be seen. Until last month they had started three league games between them. A bit rich to claim he's "brought them through" considering that.

Neither of them have signed a new contract either wanting more playing time before they do so, so it will be interesting to see what will happen. Loftus Cheek have still only started five league games which is way to low since he's our second best midfielder.

[DaRick]

11 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Jose is our greatest manager ever so he was a special case for obvious reasons. And about Torres that's simply not true.

But anyways, the point is that we clearly didn't get much better in March and onwards. We have been poor lately too.

 

Beg to differ RE Torres. He had his memorable moments but ultimately he was treated quite sympathetically given his output and inconsistent mentality.

Tend to agree that Jose was sui generis. @Argo, a better example would have been AVB, who from memory was not treated as harshly as Sarri was by the fans despite his side performing worse overall (and declining). 

[Gol15]

We got top 4 so I voted now Sarri in. You learn to love em.

[Argo]

59 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Jose is our greatest manager ever so he was a special case for obvious reasons. And about Torres that's simply not true.

But anyways, the point is that we clearly didn't get much better in March and onwards. We have been poor lately too.

It was very true about Torres, every game i attended in his era "Torres, Torres, Torres" was chanted atleast twice a match, his special treatment went as far as moaning at Drogba because he took a free kick instead of him and groaning at the announcement of a Lampard goal because it looked from the MHL it was Torres who netted.

And yes I think we have got better from March, with the games you mentioned Wolves scored from literally their only chance of the game, we didn't create a great amount of chances but we successfully contained a dangerous counter attacking side and a fair score would have been 1-0 and Everton we battered for the first half cutting them open at will but got punished for failing to take our chances, Cardiff I agree was a performance out of the festive period but in general things have got a lot better since the cup final.

[rtwelch]

Has anyone ever seen Sarri enter the pitch? Is this another one of his superstitions? 

[evissy]

So guys: in or out? If out please explain why and who is our new manager. 

Edited May 6, 2019 by evissy

[abramovich]

Still not convinced by the man, but what's fair is fair, he's got us back in the CL, and that should get Sarri another season in charge.

Hopefully he can finish the season on a high by winning the EL trophy. Given how much we've struggled, that would be a very good finish for his first season and get us back to the winning ways, not to mention get Sarri his long awaited first trophy.

I admit I was wrong about us not finishing in the top four under Sarri although we did get a lot of help from our top four rivals, who were strangely determined to make us look good by being even more sh*t. Hopefully Maurizio has learned by now enough about his new team, new league and the the type of challenges he has to face at this level.

Edited May 6, 2019 by abramovich

[ForeverCarefree]

1 hour ago, evissy said:

So guys: in or out? If out please explain why and who is our new manager. 

I don’t think he was the right appointment personally but he’s secured a top four finish which was presumably the target for whoever came in.

I still think there’s a chance he could leave if a club in Italy comes in for him during the summer but we’ll have to wait and see.

But we’ve committed to Sarri’s style so he’s earned the right to a second season if he wants to stay. 

[axman2526]

2 hours ago, evissy said:

So guys: in or out? If out please explain why and who is our new manager. 

In*

 

*if he wins the Europa League.

[Boston Blue]

I was excited when we named him.  I got frustrated with him and his football through the season.  I was on the "Sarri out" side of things.  But looking at where we are, he has done a job for us.  He did what we all wanted him to do:  Compete and get us into the Top 4.  Job done. I respect that.

But I have to wonder how Roman and the board feel about whether he is the guy to stay long term.  A story in yesterday's Times claims that there was a decision to sack him if he lost to Spurs.  We won 2-0 and he stayed.  If true, is he always going to be 3 bad results from the sack?  That's our normal way of operating and does not, in any way, suggest that our thinking has changed to the long term and we will give a manager time to implement a new system.  If we're still thinking in that short term way, will Roman and the board be willing to let established players go and bring in Sarri players, assuming transfer ban is lifted?  Will they decide to back him and buy, or set him up for failure by forcing him to play a style that may not suit the players he has?  And if the ban is upheld, do they trust Sarri to be the guy to implement, coach, and develop the youth players?

Edited May 6, 2019 by Boston Blue

[Brutos]

So when you sack him who comes in next or who would want this mess knowing that if they have a bad patch fans will turn on them in there first season.

I lost a bit of faith middle of the season I was 50/50 but I am firmly backing him again he has shown enough to continue developing this team. If he goes we will never develop an identity as managers will know one season and they are out

[Gol15]

4 hours ago, evissy said:

So guys: in or out? If out please explain why and who is our new manager. 

IN.

Requirement was top 4 or Europa League title, he did it so time for everyone to keep thier side of the bargain and vote him in.

[Valerie]

9 hours ago, Sindre said:

He should still go.
We haven’t looked good on any consistent basis since September. Surely, you’d like to see development to stick with someone?
Sure, we clinched top 4 but that was mostly down to Eden Hazard and our rivals being bottlers. It sure wasn’t down to us going on a great run. We’ve only won two out of our last five games.

Even yesterday we were the worse side at home to Watford until we got two set-piece goals that changed the game.
 

You've just described the whole point of a competition: 20 clubs play to see which of them has won the most points over 38 matches each. That includes the very lucky results, the bottle jobs, and the matches that are decided by one corner, or one send-off, or whatever. 

Why give it a negative slant? Like every club, we try to improve for the next season. Getting rid of a manager again, without having any idea who to appoint next, and the players learning a new system again, is not a step on the road to improvement.

[Boston Blue]

18 minutes ago, Brutos said:

So when you sack him who comes in next or who would want this mess knowing that if they have a bad patch fans will turn on them in there first season.

I lost a bit of faith middle of the season I was 50/50 but I am firmly backing him again he has shown enough to continue developing this team. If he goes we will never develop an identity as managers will know one season and they are out

We've burned through so many, there's either no one left, or the ones left won't go near us.  

I think part of Sarri's problem is that he is cold & distant, and hasn't connected with supporters.  Conte celebrated every goal and win as if he were one of us, which immediately made him a favorite.  Once he stopped doing that, the supporters weren't as attached to him.  Certainly Sarri's predictability in substitutions and inflexibility in tactics doesn't make it seem like he's doing everything he can to win a match. And no one wants to go watch their team home & away when the manager looks like he'd rather stick with non working tactics than change something to win a match.

[STATS]

So crazy to think that if that offside goal from Azpi against Cardiff is ruled offside, he probably is not here anymore. That match was a turning point. We went on to win the game but I am pretty sure had we not secured the 3 points, he would have been gone. Fans were calling him to be sacked during the game and that kept our top 4 hopes alive. Few weeks later, he has started RLC and CHO more and got some respectable results. There has been many flaws, however he has achieved the main target by securing top 4. Also, whilst balancing Europa League same time. Fair play to him. Deserves to stay now.

[Sexyfootball]

9 hours ago, coco said:

If we beat Leicester and get 74 points it will have nothing to do with the others bottling it, 74 points is nearly always good enough for top 4.

Agreed.

Excluding this season, there have been 23 seasons since the top division went down to 20 teams and 38 games.

Our current haul of 71 points would have got you 3rd in 10 of those seasons, or 4th in 17 of them.

[robdog]

4 minutes ago, STATS said:

 he has started RLC and CHO more and got some respectable results.

IMHO Don Maurizio has given the most time to Academy products. In fact I found a tweet about this topic: