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Sarri - In or Out?


Sarri - In or Out?  

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  1. 1. Sarri - In or Out?

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Any of this sound any different to the match threads from this year? The night we beat Bayern was one of the best football nights I've ever had, but let's not pretend we won it through some display of football genius. We won it because we got lucky that night, and it didn't matter a damn because many of the same players should have won several CL's before that and they deserved to finally lift that big bastard trophy and scream in the faces of the European giants who had treated us like upstarts until that night. 
This forum has been full of wailing and teeth gnashing this year, with people talking like its the end of days because a new manager hasn't turned us into the new Barcelona overnight. It's long past time that people remembered that there's been plenty of times when we didn't look like much before but still went on to have some of the greatest nights in the clubs history.
Now can we just enjoy making it to another European trophy final, support the manager and the lads and have some fun again? Tomorrow will bring what it brings, but Chelsea will still be here regardless.
Well, I was actually proud of our defensive display that night!

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38 minutes ago, wallosh said:
11 hours ago, bisright1 said:
Tottenham got there by scoring in the 96th minute and Liverpool got there by losing 3-0 in the first leg. 
Yes their games were more exciting, they did something amazing in coming back, but they put themselves in that position in the first place. It wasn't because they were playing great football for 180 minutes!

Haha, but you know deep inside you that with Sarri in charge here, we probably won't even get a draw over 2 legs against either Ajax or Barcelona right?

Why? 

We've beaten Tottenham over two legs, drawn with Liverpool in the league and beaten them in a cup, beaten man city in the league and taken them to pens in a final.

 

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, ducavis said:

There are quite a few good young managers out there;  Hasenhüttl, Rose and Favre will do a good job. 

One of my concerns with Sarri is he takes too much time in identifying problems and driving change. Could be an age thing.

 

 

Hassenhuttl is a counter-attacking manager first and foremost. He's much more Klopp than Guardiola IOW. Not right for where the club wants to be - a bit like Jardim.

RE Marco Rose, RB Salzburg is the most talented team in its league by a distance. At least let him manage in the German Bundesliga before passing judgement. 

I've listed Favre as a possible replacement previously. The problem is that his Dortmund side has fallen off a cliff RE form and while he has overachieved more than once (like Sarri), his trophy cabinet is not much fuller than Sarri's. IMO at best a like-for-like replacement in terms of ability than a definitive improvement. 

Edited by DaRick
Clarification

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41 minutes ago, wallosh said:
11 hours ago, bisright1 said:
Tottenham got there by scoring in the 96th minute and Liverpool got there by losing 3-0 in the first leg. 
Yes their games were more exciting, they did something amazing in coming back, but they put themselves in that position in the first place. It wasn't because they were playing great football for 180 minutes!

Haha, but you know deep inside you that with Sarri in charge here, we probably won't even get a draw over 2 legs against either Ajax or Barcelona right?

If we played in a league that had only 8 tough games per season (instead of 38), a break for Christmas, and schedulers who were a little more accommodating for teams playing in Europe, I think we’d do a little better than not even getting a draw.

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Frankfurt rested their main players on the weekend whilst we put out our full-strength side. Since last Thursday, they've essentially been preparing for this game and I don't think anyone can admit they're pushovers. We, however, went all out against a strong watford side (now in the FA Cup final) to secure our Champions league spot. 

Frankfurt put all their eggs in one basket to win the champions league and it showed, they put everything into this game. Their energy was immense, and the support drove their team on. We withstood a lot of pressure, had good chances and were piling on the pressure right to the end. Why are people seeing this as the final nail in the coffin for Sarri??

I'm tired of hearing boos from Chelsea fans every time I go to a game... Loftus Cheek was tiring after 75 mins, he wasn't playing with the same energy and aggression as the first half AND he's been recovering from a back injury for months. Instead of mindless booing, why don't we back our team and create an inspiring atmosphere for the players rather!! 

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We beat Liverpool and Spurs in 2 legged ties this season. Beat City, Took them to pens in the final. When we want to we can beat anyone.
or lose to anyone but whatever thats irrelevant.
Doing it in the league against a team you know very well is far different from doing it in an European competition. Am happy we made it to the Europa league final, but non of the games we played in the Europa league right from the group stages shows any promise that we will do better in the champions league next season against better teams.
And let me tell you something you probably don't know, the monumental feat achieved by both Liverpool and Tottenham in there semi finals was as a result of there manager's genius! Both managers have a rare ability to get the best out of average players, which is one the reasons why I still don't think Sarri is right for us. Did you see the substitutions made by Pochettino in that second half? Would Sarri have done something similar when we are in a losing position? Your guess is as good as mine!

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I have my grievances with Sarri, but all things considered I think he deserves to stay.

* Top four

* League Cup final

* EL final

* RLC looks like developing into a top, top player

* CHO broke into the team (albeit possibly due to some outside pressure)

I hope the fans can get behind him a little bit as well, the booing when he took off Ruben was silly. I thought it was rather easy to see he was tired or injured, his influence vaned dramatically in the latter stages of the second half. I'd imagine Barkley doesn't feel great in that situation either, even if the booing isn't aimed specifically at him. 

The players have a year of understanding Sarris methods now, I wouldn't be surprised if we got even better next season

 

 

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1 hour ago, Old Shaggy said:

Mate, If you think a few fan posts from this forum are going to convince me that we were indeed sh*t against Bayern then think again. Between this forum and the the official site forum there are similar posts to the ones you've posted above every match, every season. That team in 2012 put up what can only be described as an heroic fight against a team in their own back yard in a a champions league final. Just because we didn't play Barcelona style tippy tappy football against them does not mean we were sh*t!

If that team last night had 20% of the fight and passion of the 2012 team, we would have won comfortably.

I wouldn't say we were "sh*t" against Bayern, we defended with our lives and showed grit and determination..... but we weren't a great side that season if we are going to be honest, and we didn't play great football.  One of the worst sides of the Roman era, without doubt.

To win knockout competitions you need that bit of luck, and in 2012 we had the previous 10 years worth of  come all at once. No shame in that.

It's always fine margins in these sorts of games, and we could have, on another night, been eliminated in every round of the competition in 2012 and not really claimed we were hard done by. Just the way it goes.

It's telling that the same team got eliminated in the group stage the following season, including getting well and truly battered by both Juventus and Shakhtar away. Those games were not pretty if you recall. Every dog has it's day....

But yeah,  although the circumstances are different, I think comparisons are reasonable. It's about winning in knockout competitions, and if you end up winning the tournament nobody cares how you managed it.

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I've been toing and froing on Sarri this season, but as it stands I think he's done enough to earn a second season. What we really need though is if we are going to stick with Sarri  the team need to persevere with his style of play. We need the players to play out of their skin every match, press like hell for leather and learn how to pass under pressure. If Liverpool can do it, we can bloody do it! 

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2 minutes ago, AndyDowsleftflank said:

I have my grievances with Sarri, but all things considered I think he deserves to stay.

* Top four

* League Cup final

* EL final

* RLC looks like developing into a top, top player

* CHO broke into the team (albeit possibly due to some outside pressure)

I hope the fans can get behind him a little bit as well, the booing when he took off Ruben was silly. I thought it was rather easy to see he was tired or injured, his influence vaned dramatically in the latter stages of the second half. I'd imagine Barkley doesn't feel great in that situation either, even if the booing isn't aimed specifically at him. 

The players have a year of understanding Sarris methods now, I wouldn't be surprised if we got even better next season

Completely agree, how is Barkley meant to react to that, especially considering he hasn't played since mid-April. Think he had a decent game considering and took his penalty well. Showed Character...

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1 minute ago, mclovin83 said:

I wouldn't say we were "sh*t" against Bayern, we defended with our lives and showed grit and determination..... but we weren't a great side that season if we are going to be honest, and we didn't play great football.  One of the worst sides of the Roman era, without doubt.

To win knockout competitions you need that bit of luck, and in 2012 we had the previous 10 years worth of  come all at once. No shame in that.

It's always fine margins in these sorts of games, and we could have, on another night, been eliminated in every round of the competition in 2012 and not really claimed we were hard done by. Just the way it goes.

It's telling that the same team got eliminated in the group stage the following season, including getting well and truly battered by both Juventus and Shakhtar away. Those games were not pretty if you recall. Every dog has it's day....

But yeah,  although the circumstances are different, I think comparisons are reasonable. It's about winning in knockout competitions, and if you end up winning the tournament nobody cares how you managed it.

BIB is my only point. We were never the best team in Europe that season, but we weren't sh*t as the poster I was quoting was suggesting. That team had gut's and passion, something we severely lack today.

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One thing better than being a good manager is being a lucky one. Despite being awful to watch for large portions of games , we have made the objectives. On that alone on the balance of argument deserves to keep his job. I still have grave doubts, his inability to tactically change a match,Jekyll and Hyde performances and our general entertainment value being some of them. Trophies in the end defines a tenure, he now has a great chance of delivering the first of his career.

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1 hour ago, Shweaves said:

Frankfurt put all their eggs in one basket to win the champions league and it showed, they put everything into this game. Their energy was immense, and the support drove their team on. We withstood a lot of pressure, had good chances and were piling on the pressure right to the end. Why are people seeing this as the final nail in the coffin for Sarri??

So did Barcelona while Liverpool had to go full strength and win away to Newcastle. And yet Liverpools performance was one of the best ever, crushing a well rested and fantastic team. So it shouldn't be another excuse for people to defend Sarri with.

And i'd argue most teams have looked energetic and superior to us for a long time now. We have somehow squeezed out the necessary results so far but my goodness has it been painful to watch us. I am really surprised so many seems to be content with Sarri staying on considering our football and the general mood around the club since before Christmas.

When he decided to chew cigarettes yesterday instead of joining his staff and squad in the huddle i think i lost the last littlebit of faith i had in the man. I certainly wouldn't have liked to be managed by someone like that. Can you even imagine the likes of Conte or Mourinho doing that? I can't.
No wonder he finds the players "extremely difficult to motivate" in that case. I'll argue its not the players but him doing stuff like that.

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7 minutes ago, coco said:

Can't bash him for his achievements this season, so lets go after him for rushing off for a fag instead of crying about wining a semi final on live TV.

Are you not the one who believe everything is down to the players anyways? And that the manager doesn't mean much?
In that case it's not "his" achievements is it?

 

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1 minute ago, Sindre said:

Are you not the one who believe everything is down to the players anyways? And that the manager doesn't mean much?
In that case it's not "his" achievements is it?

 

When the players are a one of generation of legends then yes the managers have less of a job to motivate such greatness.

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1 minute ago, coco said:

When the players are a one of generation of legends then yes the managers have less of a job to motivate such greatness.

That doesn't make sense though.
They weren't legends before the manager we then had, had worked with them and pushed them to become what they became. And all the legends have said so themselves, that Mourinho took them to another level.

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31 minutes ago, dkw said:

For all those naming managers most of us have either never heard of or know nothing about, would you have included sarri in this list last year? 

and it will be onto the next flavour of month in a years time. 

It seems some fans are all about having a little patience, until they actually need to have a little patience! 

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3 hours ago, wallosh said:

Doing it in the league against a team you know very well is far different from doing it in an European competition. Am happy we made it to the Europa league final, but non of the games we played in the Europa league right from the group stages shows any promise that we will do better in the champions league next season against better teams.
 And let me tell you something you probably don't know, the monumental feat achieved by both Liverpool and Tottenham in there semi finals was as a result of there manager's genius! Both managers have a rare ability to get the best out of average players, which is one the reasons why I still don't think Sarri is right for us. Did you see the substitutions made by Pochettino in that second half? Would Sarri have done something similar when we are in a losing position?emoji16.pngemoji16.pngemoji16.png Your guess is as good as mine!

Except one example was the league cup. A competition Tottenham were desperate to win. The other was a League cup final where we drew with City after 120 minutes. 

How on earth you think that is miles different from European competition beggars belief. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Sindre said:

Are you not the one who believe everything is down to the players anyways? And that the manager doesn't mean much?
In that case it's not "his" achievements is it?

 

Think that was me who said that once. But about cup finals. In response to "Emery will definitely beat Sarri in an EL final"

I stand by it. Managers can get a team through a season, into finals. But in the crunch moments it is the 11 players on the pitch who stand up and be counted. That's why we beat United in the FA Cup last year. It's why we nearly beat City. Its why we beat Bayern. Finals are less about tactics and "motivation" (because who the f**k needs motivating in a cup final) and more about being first to the ball, working that extra 10% and staying calm under pressure.

Edited by bisright1

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1 hour ago, Sindre said:

So did Barcelona while Liverpool had to go full strength and win away to Newcastle. And yet Liverpools performance was one of the best ever, crushing a well rested and fantastic team. So it shouldn't be another excuse for people to defend Sarri with.

And i'd argue most teams have looked energetic and superior to us for a long time now. We have somehow squeezed out the necessary results so far but my goodness has it been painful to watch us. I am really surprised so many seems to be content with Sarri staying on considering our football and the general mood around the club since before Christmas.

When he decided to chew cigarettes yesterday instead of joining his staff and squad in the huddle i think i lost the last littlebit of faith i had in the man. I certainly wouldn't have liked to be managed by someone like that. Can you even imagine the likes of Conte or Mourinho doing that? I can't.
No wonder he finds the players "extremely difficult to motivate" in that case. I'll argue its not the players but him doing stuff like that.

I agree with the quality of the Liverpool performance, but realistically Chelsea and Liverpool are not on the same level. They have taken years to build up to their current standard. Klopp finished 8th in his first season in charge, and 4th in the next two. Meanwhile, Sarri has managed 4th in his first season, got us into the Europa league final and League cup final. 

In no way is Sarri perfect, some of our performances have been dire this season. It has, however, given us a foundation to build on and hopefully in the next two years we'll be a force to reckon with once more. It certainly hasn't been a disaster!

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There are some glaring deficiencies with this squad of players that I'm sure most fans would agree with.

-Full backs that cant deliver consistent quality into the box.

-Centre backs that dont control and lead the back line, and who have a tendency to lose concentration.

- A midfield that can be out muscled defensively, and dont make enough runs or movement off the ball to support the attack. 

- Wingers that are very inconsistent.

- Strikers that dont score enough goals. 

These are all very similar problems we had under conte.

So if you can accept the problems in the squad, surely you can accept that perfomances will be inconsistent, we will at times lack cohesion, and energy, concede a few sloppy goals, and fail to break teams down. 

Then I think you have to reflect on what sarri has done this year, and with the problems we have in this squad, and I think you have to say he has done a good job. I dont any manager in the world wouldve finished better than 3rd, behind 2 teams that been outstanding.

It's not been pretty for large parts of the season, but I think criticism should be levelled at the board, for letting quality of the team drop so much.

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6 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

Think that was me who said that once. But about cup finals. In response to "Emery will definitely beat Sarri in an EL final"

I stand by it. Managers can get a team through a season, into finals. But in the crunch moments it is the 11 players on the pitch who stand up and be counted. That's why we beat United in the FA Cup last year. It's why we nearly beat City. Its why we beat Bayern. Finals are less about tactics and "motivation" (because who the f**k needs motivating in a cup final) and more about being first to the ball, working that extra 10% and staying calm under pressure.

In terms of finals i'll partially agree. Although tactics, gameplan and overall unity in the squad certainly does matter as far as i'm concerned.

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3 minutes ago, big blue said:

There are some glaring deficiencies with this squad of players that I'm sure most fans would agree with.

-Full backs that cant deliver consistent quality into the box.

-Centre backs that dont control and lead the back line, and who have a tendency to lose concentration.

- A midfield that can be out muscled defensively, and dont make enough runs or movement off the ball to support the attack. 

- Wingers that are very inconsistent.

- Strikers that dont score enough goals. 

These are all very similar problems we had under conte.

- Our current striker is the pick of the manager. If he's not doing well enough that's on the manager. And Sarri also wants to keep him if possible.

- Wingers (Bar Hazard and CHO) have largely been dreadful yes, but then why didn't Hudson Odoi start a league game before April then? That was the managers choice.

- Midfield being out muscled defensively has all to do with Sarri's tactics. Slow and weak defensive midfielder as the main man in midfield so that's on him again.

- Fullbacks, Alonso have started 30 league games despite being sh*te. Emerson is the better LB yet he's not played as much as he should. Down to the manager again.

So while our squad very clearly has it's faults many of the problems we have faced have been down to the choices of the manager.

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