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Sarri - In or Out?


Sarri - In or Out?  

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  1. 1. Sarri - In or Out?

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“It’s not easy, because you run into some pretty strong cultural differences, in terms of mentality, food and doing things, so to a degree you have to show respect and adapt, which means cutting down on training sessions.

“On a purely tactical level, I am really disappointed that I haven’t been able to work on the defensive line as much, because tonight’s Eintracht goal was entirely avoidable.

“There are many players in England who are talented, but they like to hold the ball, so it takes a while to get them to move it quicker and pass it more often.

They also have these forwards who have a very specific way of attacking and it’s difficult to get them to change their ways. They want the ball passed right to their feet and often go into one-on-one situations. At that point, it’s counter-productive to force them to go against their nature.

“Clearly, Chelsea have more individualistic players than ones who will follow a system like at Napoli.”

 

The theme seems to be clear. I don't think we've seen the best he has to offer yet. After the match even Zappacosta was saying they don't have enough time to train tactics during the season. 

Edited by TheChelseaBlues

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3 hours ago, DaRick said:

Hassenhuttl is a counter-attacking manager first and foremost. He's much more Klopp than Guardiola IOW. Not right for where the club wants to be - a bit like Jardim.

RE Marco Rose, RB Salzburg is the most talented team in its league by a distance. At least let him manage in the German Bundesliga before passing judgement. 

I've listed Favre as a possible replacement previously. The problem is that his Dortmund side has fallen off a cliff RE form and while he has overachieved more than once (like Sarri), his trophy cabinet is not much fuller than Sarri's. IMO at best a like-for-like replacement in terms of ability than a definitive improvement. 

Fair points though I would argue Hassenhuttl is making the most of the players at his disposal. The problem with Sarri is he is not adapting his principles to the squad he has, which is why we look terrible. 

Personally I am a big fan of Favre and I reckon he has been fantastic with Dortmund. Injuries to key players like Reus & Hakimi has probably robbed them of the Bundesliga, but you have to agree he is tinkered with his tactics, formation, moved players around and adjusted appropriately to keep them still in the race. We have been playing one formation all season long with like for like subs just hoping for the best. That worries me long term.

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7 hours ago, Old Shaggy said:

There is a huge difference between being sh*t and being ultra defensive. We started that campaign with AVB, and with him in charge playing the high line we were terrible. Once De Matteo took over we switched back to a more defend first then counter attack style which worked wonders to get us to the final. Once in the final we played an ultra defensive style which took a huge amount of concentration and skill from our players, who, if you remember correctly, played magnificently! (Not sh*t)

So no, we weren't terrible in 2012... We were last night though!

Yes we were, Barca and Bayern cut us open at will and created chance after chance, a mix of Cech and the gods got us that win.

It's good karma for all the times we were robbed when we were the best team but quality wise the squad that season were the worst we have had in the Roman era, probably since the mid 90s actually.

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i watched with incredulity, as we passed, passed, passed, shimmy, dribble, pass , pass, then a tune just appeared in my head, its 10cc Art for arts sake

"Pass for pass sake

Shoot for f**ks sake"

The football is terrible, you can't keep blaming the players if its his philosophy, to completely restructure the team in his image is too long a job imho, when Chelsea are a results based squad

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7 minutes ago, Argo said:

Yes we were, Barca and Bayern cut us open at will and created chance after chance, a mix of Cech and the gods got us that win.

It's good karma for all the times we were robbed when we were the best team but quality wise the squad that season were the worst we have had in the Roman era, probably since the mid 90s actually.

It's a crazy opinion if you believe we were sh*te against Barcelona and Bayern.
A certain Messi scored 75 goals for Barcelona that season, yet we kept him from scoring both games by A.Cole, Mikel, JT(first leg), Cahill, Cech and several others have fantastic games. Luck was clearly a factor but it was three incredibly gutsy performances from us. More gutsy than we've ever seen this season, that's damn sure.
 

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2 hours ago, Sindre said:

That doesn't make sense though.
They weren't legends before the manager we then had, had worked with them and pushed them to become what they became. And all the legends have said so themselves, that Mourinho took them to another level.

It's not uncommon for managers to leave team talks to other people, funny you mention Mourinho because he publicly confessed he left the team talk for the 1-0 win at City in 2014 to our masseur Billy McCulloch.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/26027457

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12 minutes ago, Argo said:

Yes we were, Barca and Bayern cut us open at will and created chance after chance, a mix of Cech and the gods got us that win.

It's good karma for all the times we were robbed when we were the best team but quality wise the squad that season were the worst we have had in the Roman era, probably since the mid 90s actually.

Yep, all down to luck, nothing to do with some incredible team performances. Righto... :smack_head:

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3 minutes ago, Sindre said:

It's a crazy opinion if you believe we were sh*te against Barcelona and Bayern.
A certain Messi scored 75 goals for Barcelona that season, yet we kept him from scoring both games by A.Cole, Mikel, JT(first leg), Cahill, Cech and several others have fantastic games. Luck was clearly a factor but it was three incredibly gutsy performances from us. More gutsy than we've ever seen this season, that's damn sure.
 

sh*te was the wrong word but we got unprecedented rub of the green. Post hit, scuffs from one yard out, sitters missed, Cech saves, us taking the only serious chances we create. It was truly written in the stars, any other night that game is over by half time.

I don't doubt the players commitment to the cause that night, but we were comprehensively outplayed by a much better side and the same goes for the semi. 

5 minutes ago, Old Shaggy said:

Yep, all down to luck, nothing to do with some incredible team performances. Righto... :smack_head:

Like I said, I dont doubt they commitment to the cause that night, but we were outplayed by a better side. Bayern created like 15 clear chances, even Drogba himself said similar when talking about Cech's influence and goes at lengths to emphasize how none of it would have been possible without him playing like superman.

There's a reason sky choose to make a documentary on our win, that won't want to if say Liverpool win it this year as it looks quite possible since the start, the idea of us pulling 2012 off was bonkers right up to the point we actually did it.

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It is difficult to argue with the results in his first season:  Top 4, possibly 3rd, lost on PK's on one final, in the final of a European tournament. 

I think it looks good on paper, but the eyes see something a little different.  The tactical rigidity.  The like for like substitutions that don't change anything when something different is needed.  The mental weakness of this team.  The loss of focus coming out of the changing room at HT.  It's no wonder that among the supporters, there's a strong divide:  the "Sarri Out" group vs the "Sarri In" group.

It's likely that there is a similar split among the board & owner.  Some will believe he deserves to come back, and some will think he is not the right coach for the long term. 

If the plan is to keep him for one more year only, or bring him back reluctantly with the plan to let him go at the first sign of poor results, then I think it's best to cut him loose now and figure out who the long(er) term coach should be.  Of course, I'd feel better about that if we had a plan, a philosophy, and some sort of Director Of Football/Technical Director to execute such a plan.  

Given the way the home & away supporters reacted negatively to substitutions and performances during games, bringing him back could set him up for a really toxic atmosphere.  Supporters pre-disposed to not liking him are going to go negative at the first sign of a like for like substitution - and that's not going to help anything or anyone.

History has taught us that he may be back, but will be on a short leash.  If there are a run of early poor results, he could be let go.  Which will make next season another crap shoot...…..not that it isn't a potential crap shoot already.  

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2 minutes ago, Argo said:

sh*te was the wrong word but we got unprecedented rub of the green. Post hit, scuffs from one yard out, sitters missed, Cech saves, us taking the only serious chances we create. It was truly written in the stars, any other night that game is over by half time.

I don't doubt the players commitment to the cause that night, but we were comprehensively outplayed by a much better side and the same goes for the semi. 

Like I said, I dont doubt they commitment to the cause that night, but we were outplayed by a better side. Bayern created like 15 clear chances, even Drogba himself said similar when talking about Cech's influence and goes at lengths to emphasize how none of it would have been possible without him playing like superman.

There's a reason sky choose to make a documentary on our win, that won't want to if say Liverpool win it this year as it looks quite possible since the start, the idea of us pulling 2012 off was bonkers right up to the point we actually did it.

I would say Cech pulling off some wonder saves in both games, Cahil and Luiz playing out of their skins amongst others is more down to incredible performances rather than luck! And also, since when did it become a fact that if a team have far more possession playing tippy tappy football with out beating us that they deserved to win? I'm sorry, but in both of those games, only one team deserved to go through, and they did! 

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He didn't have much of a pre season with the team.

A transfer window, a full pre season so we can learn the correct patterns of play and defensive movements.

We've finished in the top four and could possibly win the Europa League.

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He didn't have much of a pre season with the team.

A transfer window, a full pre season so we can learn the correct patterns of play and defensive movements.

We've finished in the top four and could possibly win the Europa League.

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41 minutes ago, Sindre said:

- Our current striker is the pick of the manager. If he's not doing well enough that's on the manager. And Sarri also wants to keep him if possible.

- Wingers (Bar Hazard and CHO) have largely been dreadful yes, but then why didn't Hudson Odoi start a league game before April then? That was the managers choice.

- Midfield being out muscled defensively has all to do with Sarri's tactics. Slow and weak defensive midfielder as the main man in midfield so that's on him again.

- Fullbacks, Alonso have started 30 league games despite being sh*te. Emerson is the better LB yet he's not played as much as he should. Down to the manager again.

So while our squad very clearly has it's faults many of the problems we have faced have been down to the choices of the manager.

The striker situation is not Sarri's fault, he inherited poor strikers, he tried to fix the problem short term in January, with a player he knew, it hasn't worked out. But the problem has been their for 2 seasons.

CHO is 18, I agree he should've played more games, but again, he is inconsistent. Not his fault, he's still a kid.

Jorginho has struggled to adapt, but the midfield sarri inherited was in need of work. Fabregas's legs had gone, bakayoko is awful, drinkwater isnt good enough, and the jury is still out on Barkley. I would say with emergence of RLC and Jorginho gradually getting better, the midfield is in better shape than it was last season.

Alonso has been poor, Emerson has been marginally better, but neither they or Azpilicueta delivery consistent quality going forward. So my point still stands that the full backs available to sarri are lacking.

If Guardiola had this squad, do you think we would have been any better than 3rd? The difference between ourselves and and the top is 25 points, would we really have gotten much closer with Guardiola in charge of this set of players? Guardiola finished his 1st season with 78 points, and that was with a stronger squad, and against lower level opposition.

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Just now, big blue said:

The striker situation is not Sarri's fault, he inherited poor strikers, he tried to fix the problem short term in January, with a player he knew, it hasn't worked out. But the problem has been their for 2 seasons.

CHO is 18, I agree he should've played more games, but again, he is inconsistent. Not his fault, he's still a kid.

Jorginho has struggled to adapt, but the midfield sarri inherited was in need of work. Fabregas's legs had gone, bakayoko is awful, drinkwater isnt good enough, and the jury is still out on Barkley. I would say with emergence of RLC and Jorginho gradually getting better, the midfield is in better shape than it was last season.

Alonso has been poor, Emerson has been marginally better, but neither they or Azpilicueta delivery consistent quality going forward. So my point still stands that the full backs available to sarri are lacking.

If Guardiola had this squad, do you think we would have been any better than 3rd? The difference between ourselves and and the top is 25 points, would we really have gotten much closer with Guardiola in charge of this set of players? Guardiola finished his 1st season with 78 points, and that was with a stronger squad, and against lower level opposition.

In terms of the strikers my point is that Sarri has already said that he wants Higuain to remain first choice next season if possible. So even if we were able to go to the market the manager wants to continue with Higuain. Which i wouldn't be a fan of. 
And for me is another sign that we shouldn't be trusting Sarri to turn this club around. Higuain is 32 when next season starts and is not what i would consider building for the future which is what we have to do now.

 

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1 minute ago, Sindre said:

In terms of the strikers my point is that Sarri has already said that he wants Higuain to remain first choice next season if possible. So even if we were able to go to the market the manager wants to continue with Higuain. Which i wouldn't be a fan of. 
And for me is another sign that we shouldn't be trusting Sarri to turn this club around. Higuain is 32 when next season starts and is not what i would consider building for the future which is what we have to do now.

 

What else would you expect sarri to say in that situation? No I dont want to keep him, he's been sh*t and I made a mistake wanting him. 

Maybe sarri is just protecting the player, if the ban comes in, then higuian will probably be a more attractive option.

Since that whole situation hasn't even happened yet, I dont see how you can use it as an argument for or against sarri. 

He could make a mistake in the market, but so could anyone. We can't predict the future, and from all accounts, who we sign is never solely down to the manager anyway.

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3 minutes ago, big blue said:

What else would you expect sarri to say in that situation? No I dont want to keep him, he's been sh*t and I made a mistake wanting him. 

Maybe sarri is just protecting the player, if the ban comes in, then higuian will probably be a more attractive option.

Since that whole situation hasn't even happened yet, I dont see how you can use it as an argument for or against sarri. 

He could make a mistake in the market, but so could anyone. We can't predict the future, and from all accounts, who we sign is never solely down to the manager anyway.

I am 100% percent certain he means it. He's mentioned it several times how much he wants Higuain to stay and everything suggests he intends to keep him as first choice next season if possible.

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9 minutes ago, Sindre said:

I am 100% percent certain he means it. He's mentioned it several times how much he wants Higuain to stay and everything suggests he intends to keep him as first choice next season if possible.

And if (and I admit its a big IF) he can wind back the clock with him and get him playing to the level and the style he was when they worked together at Napoli then it wouldnt be a bad thing. I would rather someone else came in and we stopped having to rely on players at the end of their careers up front but just offering a counter point

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11 minutes ago, Sindre said:

I am 100% percent certain he means it. He's mentioned it several times how much he wants Higuain to stay and everything suggests he intends to keep him as first choice next season if possible.

Wanting him to stay is a problem?... he should, he's much better than Giroud.  Even if you bring Abraham back with a ban, who's the better mentor to Abraham for how Sarri want's him to play?  I could see it being very similar to Pedro / CHO next year with Higuain / Abraham, a gradual shift through the course of the year for the younger player to learn how to play his system as an understudy.  Fans may be upset because he starts a month or two later than they want, but these young guys look ready when they take over.  RLC has improved tremendously, he has moments he looks Zidane like.

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“It’s not easy, because you run into some pretty strong cultural differences, in terms of mentality, food and doing things, so to a degree you have to show respect and adapt, which means cutting down on training sessions.

“On a purely tactical level, I am really disappointed that I haven’t been able to work on the defensive line as much, because tonight’s Eintracht goal was entirely avoidable.

“There are many players in England who are talented, but they like to hold the ball, so it takes a while to get them to move it quicker and pass it more often.

They also have these forwards who have a very specific way of attacking and it’s difficult to get them to change their ways. They want the ball passed right to their feet and often go into one-on-one situations. At that point, it’s counter-productive to force them to go against their nature.

“Clearly, Chelsea have more individualistic players than ones who will follow a system like at Napoli.”

OK, so one would presume from these comments that he would want to swap out a few players.  But he says he only wants one or two additions.  Is his plan to re-train players (some who are in their late twenties or older) to move the ball quickly?  Is he a good enough coach to take some players from the Academy or back from loans and teach them to play the way he wants after they have been coached a different way?  And is he going to be able to do this in a pre-season?

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2 hours ago, Sindre said:

In terms of the strikers my point is that Sarri has already said that he wants Higuain to remain first choice next season if possible. So even if we were able to go to the market the manager wants to continue with Higuain. Which i wouldn't be a fan of. 
And for me is another sign that we shouldn't be trusting Sarri to turn this club around. Higuain is 32 when next season starts and is not what i would consider building for the future which is what we have to do now.

 

What is Sarri supposed to say in regards to Higuaín FFS, when Higuaín has called him a father figure in some interviews. His confidence would be shattered if Sarri says that Higuaín is not needed, not to mention that it wouldn't be good business if we looking to sign another striker. Sarri is definitely better at handling the media than Conte where he would complain about the lack of signings and quality in the team, hence is downfall with the players and as a consequence results. 

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Posted (edited)

Some people have asked about the options if we sack Sarri. If we get the ban held for this summer i'd put my faith in Lampard with Jody & JT as assistants.
Sarri has said he'd only want a player or two from the transfer market but i believe we need much more and should also be aiming for a team with an english/british core under Lampard's guidance.
We will need to spend quite a bit of money but if we intead to compete with City and Liverpool and be a part of this league's resurgance in the CL we need too.

I would aim to look something like this from next season:

                                Kepa
  Wan-Bissaka - Rudiger - Maguire* - Chillwell/Tierney
                    Kante - Declan Rice
       Pulisic - Loftus Cheek - Hudson Odoi
                              Jovic

*If we got him for a decent price. If not look for other options.

For me, that is a team with upside and a team i could see turn into something really special in the end.  And as importantly i could see a team like that turn into what i consider the "true" Chelsea - a team with passion, determination, unity and a winning mentality that could take us far with those three leading us.

I am sure many will disagree with this but i would find something like that much more exciting and promising than what we are facing now with new contracts for the likes of Luiz, Alonso, Higuain and the likes.

So i hope we take the necessary actions and go for it.

Edited by Sindre

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I was 100% Sarri when we first appointed him, I really thought he was the right man.

Now I’m 100% out, the man is clueless.

The football this season has been horrific, he’s tactically inept. When has he ever changed his system to counteract what the opposing manager has done? Does anyone have faith that he can beat Arsenal, I don’t?

 

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3 hours ago, Sindre said:

Some people have asked about the options if we sack Sarri. If we get the ban held for this summer i'd put my faith in Lampard with Jody & JT as assistants.
Sarri has said he'd only want a player or two from the transfer market but i believe we need much more and should also be aiming for a team with an english/british core under Lampard's guidance.
We will need to spend quite a bit of money but if we intead to compete with City and Liverpool and be a part of this league's resurgance in the CL we need too.

I would aim to look something like this from next season:

                                Kepa
  Wan-Bissaka - Rudiger - Maguire* - Chillwell/Tierney
                    Kante - Declan Rice
       Pulisic - Loftus Cheek - Hudson Odoi
                              Jovic

*If we got him for a decent price. If not look for other options.

For me, that is a team with upside and a team i could see turn into something really special in the end.  And as importantly i could see a team like that turn into what i consider the "true" Chelsea - a team with passion, determination, unity and a winning mentality that could take us far with those three leading us.

I am sure many will disagree with this but i would find something like that much more exciting and promising than what we are facing now with new contracts for the likes of Luiz, Alonso, Higuain and the likes.

So i hope we take the necessary actions and go for it.

Ok if you're playing Fifa 19

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3 minutes ago, Ballack & Blu said:

Ok if you're playing Fifa 19

Figured someone would say that.

But it's entirely possible to line up like that if we were willing to spend some money. We need to invest in the squad and i believe we should be aiming for a core of mostly young and british emerging players.

Or what's so unrealistic about it if i may ask?

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I’m not a big Sarri fan..but I think he has to stay, this season could have been ALOT worse when you think about the amount of problems we’ve had. However Sarri has managed to keep things together - one way or another. 

It also concerns me that fans are undermining Sarri by booing his substitutions. It encourages the players to undermine him as well and we’ve seen a few instances of that this season. 

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