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Sarri - In or Out?


Sarri - In or Out?  

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  1. 1. Sarri - In or Out?

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I don't think so but I don't know better. Lampard has a major pressure to do as well as a manager as he did as a player. He is smart enough to know he is not ready to lead us as a manager. Or I'm completely wrong about him. Maybe he feels he could do what Zidane did at Real who is also a young manager. 

I'm not against him being our new manager I would be very surprised if this materialized. 

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3 minutes ago, evissy said:

I don't think so but I don't know better. Lampard has a major pressure to do as well as a manager as he did as a player. He is smart enough to know he is not ready to lead us as a manager. Or I'm completely wrong about him. Maybe he feels he could do what Zidane did at Real who is also a young manager. 

I'm not against him being our new manager I would be very surprised if this materialized. 

There's never going to be perfect timing for Frank to come here as manager, there was always going to be a question mark over timing, circumstances or something or another.

What if he turns us down and the manager we hire instead turns out to be a long term solution alas blocking him from the job until his twilight years? He would wind up regretting it for the rest of the life.

Alternatively, what if he has two solid season's with Derby and the chance of succeding Pep at City came about? I'm certain he won't ditch us for City but if it came to one or the other job offer, are we sure he won't choose a place with better resources for him to succeed? We saw how ruthless he is with his career when he went City as a player.

Circumstances seems to be leading to a chance for Lampard to get this role earlier than expected, he's had foundations layed for him (him and Sarri's football ideas are quite similar, so his initial work won't be as difficult as it would have been had he took over from Antonio) and we have (results wise) the best set of youngsters in this country since the Busby Babes.

There's always a risk but if Sarri goes this seems as good a time as any.

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14 minutes ago, Argo said:

There's never going to be perfect timing for Frank to come here as manager, there was always going to be a question mark over timing, circumstances or something or another.

What if he turns us down and the manager we hire instead turns out to be a long term solution alas blocking him from the job until his twilight years? He would wind up regretting it for the rest of the life.

Alternatively, what if he has two solid season's with Derby and the chance of succeding Pep at City came about? I'm certain he won't ditch us for City but if it came to one or the other job offer, are we sure he won't choose a place with better resources for him to succeed? We saw how ruthless he is with his career when he went City as a player.

Circumstances seems to be leading to a chance for Lampard to get this role earlier than expected, he's had foundations layed for him (him and Sarri's football ideas are quite similar, so his initial work won't be as difficult as it would have been had he took over from Antonio) and we have (results wise) the best set of youngsters in this country since the Busby Babes.

There's always a risk but if Sarri goes this seems as good a time as any.

Regardless of Sarri in or out, this is probably the most balanced post i've seen on Lamps potentially coming. 

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2 hours ago, Sindre said:

I disagree. His squad isn't that great and although he's got some good loanees he really got the best out of them. Tomori wasn't much special for Hull last season for example.
His right-back is 18 year old Bogle who Lampard brought from the reserves to be a starter. He also didn't have a top striker to work with.

Being from Nottingham almost all my Derby fan friends expected them to go up this season, or at the very least make play offs.

Tomori was shifted to right back for Hull if i'm not mistaken, no shock he plays better in his natural role.

They signed Jack Marriott who hit nearly 30 league goals the year before and Waghorn who was brilliant for Ipswich. 

Derby have been crying out for fresh fullbacks for years, promoting Bogle was the go to choice.

The only surprising thing he's done this season is not play Cole as much as everyone thought he would. 

I'm not discrediting Lamps or Jody's work but we have to realise he's done what was expected at Derby. Coming to Chelsea is a complete different beast.

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On ‎18‎/‎05‎/‎2019 at 11:49, RickUK said:

Slightly agree with you, however if you own a club who are you going to back with huge funds.  Genuine question now.  Sarri or Pep?  Sarri style of play is nothing new, its been around for years.  We don't see it right now with us because the EPL is so different to the Serie A in terms of time on the ball, space, pace, aggression. That's a fact.  That is why Sarri has to adapt to the prem and change things up, alternate, because the EPL certainly won't be adapting to him.  When we are losing and/ or playing poor; , swapping Giroud for Higuain, Barkley for Kova, or Willian for Pedro shows a lack of ideas IMO.  Why not change the formation, go 2 up top, try wingbacks, try Kante in his role and rest Jorginho now and then.   Just show some flexibility  That is my main gripe with Sarri.   And the treatment of Cahill

 

Da Silva, Aina, James, Abraham (apart from Swansea, where their fans were never convinced) have never played properly in the EPL.  Going from the champ to prem is quite a jump for some players.   Plus i think DaSilva and Aina have options to buy which have been taken, apparently.  Sadly, my instinct is that Villa will buy Abraham if they go up, too

Pep. And it's amusing because you're making the exact same arguments people made about Pep in his first season. "Why does he make like-for-like substitutions." "Why does he largely insist on playing a 4-3-3, play with 2 up top." Because you know what 2 up top implies? It implies hoofing the ball up long and hoping for the best, wingbacks requires two defensive midfielders in the middle, a role Jorginho can't play very well. Kante's role is him next to a DM that we don't have. He should rest Jorginho more, that's why he asked for a Jorginho backup in January but the board didn't give him one! Kante can't play there, Ampadu can't, Kovacic can't. 

DaSilva and Aina both have options to buy but that doesn't guarantee anything. DaSilva especially could get much better offers. Swansea weren't convinced because they didn't use him right. Tell me, is the worst team in the Premier League much better than the best team in the Championship? Or do you think Norwich would beat Huddersfield? If Tammy's scoring against the best clubs in the Championship, with better service he'll be able to score against the worst in the Premier League. Also, compare when we play similar level opposition in cups and the likes of Alonso, Zappacosta, Giroud, Morata still struggle. But in the Championship against the same opposition those 4 players bossed it. Just a quick reminder. Dele Alli, Marcus Rashford, Harry Kane, Joe Gomez, Trent Alexander-Arnold all wouldn't have made it at Chelsea but yet they've developed into fantastic players because they were given a chance. 

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1 hour ago, buzzcfc said:

Out of interest, what makes you think that? Derby was his first job, but clearly time is no measure of success if people are happy to have Sarri here who has won precisely f**k all in his 20 year odd career. Sarri is no more qualified than Frank.

That's a ridiculously simplistic way of looking at things. 

Frank has never had to deal with managerial pressure before. He's never had his decisions questioned at the top of papers. He's not managed at the top level at all. Sarri has had fans on his back at two major high profile clubs and looks like he will have proven both sets of supporters wrong. He left Napoli on a high - few managers can claim that.

I think lampard will do a good job. I just think Sarri will do a better one next year and that lampard will be a better manager if he has another year with derby before cashing in his chips and taking the Chelsea job now. 

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42 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Being from Nottingham almost all my Derby fan friends expected them to go up this season, or at the very least make play offs.

Tomori was shifted to right back for Hull if i'm not mistaken, no shock he plays better in his natural role.

They signed Jack Marriott who hit nearly 30 league goals the year before and Waghorn who was brilliant for Ipswich. 

Derby have been crying out for fresh fullbacks for years, promoting Bogle was the go to choice.

The only surprising thing he's done this season is not play Cole as much as everyone thought he would. 

I'm not discrediting Lamps or Jody's work but we have to realise he's done what was expected at Derby. Coming to Chelsea is a complete different beast.

But that's just football fans being hopeful / optimistic - especially with a high profile appointment like Lamps.

Derby have been out of the PL for over a decade and their fans had no divine right to expect promotion. Look how tough the Championship is every season. The relegated clubs with the parachute payments are often favourites to go back up - so West Brom, Stoke, Swansea. Then there is Forest, Villa, Leeds. Middlesboro, the two Sheffield clubs + this seasons surprise package, Norwich. So what Lamps & Jody did this season was a fair achievement - sure the supporters would hope they got to this position but it should have been no way expected. Would they still have been expecting it had they had a manager like Pardew or McLaren?

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1 hour ago, buzzcfc said:

Out of interest, what makes you think that? Derby was his first job, but clearly time is no measure of success if people are happy to have Sarri here who has won precisely f**k all in his 20 year odd career. Sarri is no more qualified than Frank.

Emphasis on the 20 year odd career since that's not Sarri's fault. He was an ordinary banker. Lampard got given the Derby job whereas Sarri had to start in the 8th tier after several years of sunday league coaching. In reality this is Sarri's 4th season with a realistic chance of winning a trophy. Doesn't sound that outrageous now does it? Hiring Lampard on nothing other than sentiment when he really hasn't achieved anything remotely remarkable would be a horrendous decision. How often does it work? Zidane and Pep are the only exceptions from memory and they both had phenomenal squads, and now look at Zidane. Far better comparisons would be Di Matteo and Henry. Di Matteo deserved the job but we were awful until he was sacked. Henry got the Monaco job, again on nothing other than sentiment and did awful. Di Matteo did win the Champions League yes, but again look at the Chelsea squad at that time, AVB was significantly underperforming and in several moment of the CL campaign our win was not down to brilliant tactics or managerial ability but was down to simply being fortunate. Sarri's got a history of being able to improve teams year upon year, something Lampard may not be able to do. So why are we willing to given Lampard hundreds of millions to spend but Sarri no because he didn't actually win anything...despite the fact if Lampard had done exactly what Sarri had done in Italy we'd all be calling him world class and how it didn't matter that he was trophyless.

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8 minutes ago, Desailly123 said:

Emphasis on the 20 year odd career since that's not Sarri's fault. He was an ordinary banker. Lampard got given the Derby job whereas Sarri had to start in the 8th tier after several years of sunday league coaching. In reality this is Sarri's 4th season with a realistic chance of winning a trophy. Doesn't sound that outrageous now does it? Hiring Lampard on nothing other than sentiment when he really hasn't achieved anything remotely remarkable would be a horrendous decision. How often does it work? Zidane and Pep are the only exceptions from memory and they both had phenomenal squads, and now look at Zidane. Far better comparisons would be Di Matteo and Henry. Di Matteo deserved the job but we were awful until he was sacked. Henry got the Monaco job, again on nothing other than sentiment and did awful. Di Matteo did win the Champions League yes, but again look at the Chelsea squad at that time, AVB was significantly underperforming and in several moment of the CL campaign our win was not down to brilliant tactics or managerial ability but was down to simply being fortunate. Sarri's got a history of being able to improve teams year upon year, something Lampard may not be able to do. So why are we willing to given Lampard hundreds of millions to spend but Sarri no because he didn't actually win anything...despite the fact if Lampard had done exactly what Sarri had done in Italy we'd all be calling him world class and how it didn't matter that he was trophyless.

Well he's made Derby better in his very first year in management.

I think it's a little unfair to say Lampard has done nothing and was just 'given' the Derby job. He's had an outstanding career in football, whereas Sarri was, as you say, an ordinary banker. Of course Sarri has had to work up through the leagues - doesn't change the fact he's won f**k all though at any level he's managed at....EVER.

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30 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

That's a ridiculously simplistic way of looking at things. 

Frank has never had to deal with managerial pressure before. He's never had his decisions questioned at the top of papers. He's not managed at the top level at all. Sarri has had fans on his back at two major high profile clubs and looks like he will have proven both sets of supporters wrong. He left Napoli on a high - few managers can claim that.

I think lampard will do a good job. I just think Sarri will do a better one next year and that lampard will be a better manager if he has another year with derby before cashing in his chips and taking the Chelsea job now. 

He definitely hasn't proved the fans wrong that have been on his back this season, not at all. I've mentioned elsewhere in this thread why Sarri hasn't been good enough so I won't go through all of that again.

I don't see how Sarri will do better next season. How can he when he can't sign players and lacks the ability to adapt whatsoever. He doesn't have the players for his system, he's continuously questioned their 'mentality', but yet he stuck with exactly the same mundane, predictable and hopeless tactics week after week after week. Why is he going to change next season?

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2 hours ago, Sindre said:

Lampard would take the job in a heartbeat in my opinion. You never know what the future brings in football and if you get a chance like that, you quite simply take it.

If a door opens in life you walk through it because you don't know when it will open again, remember Hoddle taking Swindon up and left straight away to go to us. 

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1 hour ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Being from Nottingham almost all my Derby fan friends expected them to go up this season, or at the very least make play offs.

Tomori was shifted to right back for Hull if i'm not mistaken, no shock he plays better in his natural role.

They signed Jack Marriott who hit nearly 30 league goals the year before and Waghorn who was brilliant for Ipswich. 

Derby have been crying out for fresh fullbacks for years, promoting Bogle was the go to choice.

The only surprising thing he's done this season is not play Cole as much as everyone thought he would. 

I'm not discrediting Lamps or Jody's work but we have to realise he's done what was expected at Derby. Coming to Chelsea is a complete different beast.

I highly doubt that the vast majority of Derby fans expected them to get play offs. Maybe they expected them to compete with teams vying for play-off but even the odds at the start of the season, they were placed behind other teams by bookies in where teams would finish. Stoke were the big favourites and failed miserably, followed by Middlesbrough, WBA, Nottingham Forest, Leeds, Swansea, Villa and Brentford. That is 5 teams they finished above who at start of season bookies, predicted them to finish below. It was a massive achievement for them to reach play offs. No doubts about it. Especially in first season in charge and with a very young team. Not at all expected.

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4 minutes ago, STATS said:

I highly doubt that the vast majority of Derby fans expected them to get play offs. Maybe they expected them to compete with teams vying for play-off but even the odds at the start of the season, they were placed behind other teams by bookies in where teams would finish. Stoke were the big favourites and failed miserably, followed by Middlesbrough, WBA, Nottingham Forest, Leeds, Swansea, Villa and Brentford. That is 5 teams they finished above who at start of season bookies, predicted them to finish below. It was a massive achievement for them to reach play offs. No doubts about it. Especially in first season in charge and with a very young team. Not at all expected.

Derby finished 6th the season before and definitely among the favourites to get In the top 6 again. 

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3 minutes ago, dkw said:

Derby finished 6th the season before and definitely among the favourites to get In the top 6 again. 

Yes, amongst, but like I was saying, they were competing with many other good teams who had bought players. Bookies fancied other teams ahead of them. That is my point. Massive achievement either way in first season of management. 

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5 minutes ago, STATS said:

Yes, amongst, but like I was saying, they were competing with many other good teams who had bought players. Bookies fancied other teams ahead of them. That is my point. Massive achievement either way in first season of management. 

It was a good achievement, no doubt. But they were decent odds to get top 6 and were expected to get there. 

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1 minute ago, dkw said:

It was a good achievement, no doubt. But they were decent odds to get top 6 and were expected to get there. 

Expected by who? In terms of bookies, they were not expected to get play offs. They were expected to compete, however be just outsiders.  

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36 minutes ago, buzzcfc said:

He definitely hasn't proved the fans wrong that have been on his back this season, not at all. I've mentioned elsewhere in this thread why Sarri hasn't been good enough so I won't go through all of that again.

I don't see how Sarri will do better next season. How can he when he can't sign players and lacks the ability to adapt whatsoever. He doesn't have the players for his system, he's continuously questioned their 'mentality', but yet he stuck with exactly the same mundane, predictable and hopeless tactics week after week after week. Why is he going to change next season?

Because we've improved since december. If you can't see that then it's pointless having a conversation because we won't agree. 

I was nearly Sarri out. I'm not anymore at all. And neither are most people I can track on the web. 

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4 hours ago, Brutos said:

It will be very very interesting when lamp's start's to struggle and look's out of his depth wonder what the faithful will say about him......

Or Frank could be a huge success, like he’s always been in football.

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, STATS said:

Expected by who? In terms of bookies, they were not expected to get play offs. They were expected to compete, however be just outsiders.  

Do you have a way of backing that up, because I'm sure I remember them being well fancied once Morris and our youth players joined. 

 

Quick Google found this, joint 7th favourite for promotion with Brentford and villa. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/championship-title-promotion-odds-plus-13021313.amp

Edited by dkw

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2 hours ago, evissy said:

I don't think so but I don't know better. Lampard has a major pressure to do as well as a manager as he did as a player. He is smart enough to know he is not ready to lead us as a manager. Or I'm completely wrong about him. Maybe he feels he could do what Zidane did at Real who is also a young manager. 

I'm not against him being our new manager I would be very surprised if this materialized. 

Gullit had no experiece at all but won us our first major trophy in two decades.      

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, buzzcfc said:

He definitely hasn't proved the fans wrong that have been on his back this season, not at all. I've mentioned elsewhere in this thread why Sarri hasn't been good enough so I won't go through all of that again.

I don't see how Sarri will do better next season. How can he when he can't sign players and lacks the ability to adapt whatsoever. He doesn't have the players for his system, he's continuously questioned their 'mentality', but yet he stuck with exactly the same mundane, predictable and hopeless tactics week after week after week. Why is he going to change next season?

He's absolutely changed aspects of our play and the players. First of all he's got us playing out from the back very comfortably. Kante was appointed a new position and has the best goals & assists combined stats in his career and could have had more goals if he had his shooting boots on. Loftus Cheek is finally playing in his best position and has done very well.

Hazard has had his best season since joining the club with with 16 goals and 15 assists in the league. All this in Sarri's first season in charge of the club. Of course improvement of the system takes time. It took time with Pep and Klopp too. They didn't just suddenly start playing amazing football. Having the players to suit the system is incredibly important, especially in an attacking system like that. 

Edited by enigma

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Posted (edited)

If he goes (sacked) i dont think it was a sudden decision.  I think it'd been planned for a good few months that he would leave this summer.  (if true obviiously)  I said before he saved his job by the skin of his teeth this year.  Playing RLC and CHO was a result of the dogs abuse fans gave him, as was his temporary Barkley/Kova sub stopping

 

I see a lot on twitter annoyed he may go, but i know those same accounts have been sarri out a lot, too.  Fickle fans, worst of the lot

Edited by RickUK

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13 minutes ago, dkw said:

Do you have a way of backing that up, because I'm sure I remember them being well fancied once Morris and our youth players joined. 

 

Quick Google found this, joint 7th favourite for promotion with Brentford and villa. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/championship-title-promotion-odds-plus-13021313.amp

Yeah, same thing I was reading. They were same odds, however I only realised they were same odds now. Had Villa got Abraham at that period, they would of been placed at better odds but they got him end of that month. But in theory, bookies did not make it a definite for Derby to reach play offs. There were teams they expected to get automatic promotion and play offs who did not even get top 6 at all.

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