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*Officially sacked* but still Super Frank Lampard


Sack or Back ???  

113 members have voted

  1. 1. Sack or Back Frank ?

    • Sack now.
      34
    • Back until the end of the season, unless relegation dooms, then evaluate.
      79


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23 minutes ago, Brutos said:

I rather keep Lampard this guy reaction to the incident with PSG last champions league where he didn’t back up his player’s says all you need to know about him so no not this guy.

When Mbappe was in question for a game, I think it was against Atalanta, he was saying that without Mbappe they have no chance... All the while he had on the bench Icardi, Draxler and so on... 

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44 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Interesting how now stats totally matter for Timo and Kai even when both spent most games filling in the gaps in the 4-3-3 formation, Lampard didn't build the team around them this season at all, he could have done that but he chose to settle in Mount back in his position and to find the new position for Kante.

Timo started the season well but got burned out running down the wing and lost confidence. He's a striker that is known for missing chances but just by being the striker he's capable of getting into more than enough chances to make up for his misses. That's not possible when he's asked to provide for others, he spent so much energy just to get into a chance only to miss it and then he goes cold and spends another 30 minutes just hugging the touchline and then whoops he misses again...
He was played in the wrong way most of the time and the few goals he did score in the PL, half of them he created by himself, Jorginho's long ball wasn't an assist for Jorginho officially, it was Timo that had so many touches there and basically created the goal himself. Then he got a pass on the wing, ran the counter attack by himself, passed 4-5 players and scored in another game, that's him trying to force it and most of the time it won't work but it looked great that one time, that's not us playing tactically well, that's equivalent to buying Messi/Maradona and him running past 4 players for a goal but that doesn't make your tactics good.

Kai was mostly filling in for whoever wasn't there to play in a certain position, the few games where he played as the AM he delivered almost every game.
For some reason Lampard decided to play him as a false 9 against Liverpool, Christensen got a red card and Kai was subbed off. That's not him playing bad, that's just random, you have Tammy, Giroud, Werner but you simply have to play Kai as a false 9 against Liverpool so early on in the season when he didn't even have a pre-season and then you take him off because your Christensen lost the game for you already.
But after that game Lampard played him correctly, he was the AM in 3 games in a row, he scored, assisted and won a penalty during that time so he had a run of 3 games where he did well and then it ended when Lampard changed the formation for the Spurs game and Kai played once again only 45 minutes in a different role, after that point Lampard used him as the CM, RW, basically wherever he needed to fill in so that's not really how you make a new player settle in.

Is it really that mind-blowing how the new signings that play well are players that are never asked do do something other than what they are the best at? Ziyech was never moved outside of the right wing, Chilwell and T.Silva obviously only play their natural positions.
But then people are surprised that Timo and Kai have weak stats, I mean even Ziyech had a bad game at least once and he only played in his strongest position, why do we expect new players to perform well when we don't use them correctly?

It's the manager's job to use his players in the best way where their best abilities will come into play, it's the manager's job to provide for the best possible ways so that they perform. Last season Lampard blamed the players for not being clinical enough and it's true we missed a lot of chances but he's not doing any favors to anyone by demanding that Werner simply figures it out on the wing and changes his player-profile in a matter of a few months, that's taking a big risk and a big leap of faith and of course it hasn't paid out!

Same for Kai, a huge signing that spent 30% of the time on the wing playing way too wide. Like I said, if you want a new young player to settle in fast and to contribute you should play him in his best position where you would have the most chances that he delivers as soon as possible.

Solskjaer doesn't play Fernandes or van De Beek on the wing, he's not trying to re-invent those players he just puts them where they play their best game and hopes for the best. And it's working...

This is it for me, you spend that sort of money on that kind of talent/potential you build around in particular Kai for me who looked like a future Ballon Dor winner before coming here. Yet Lampard seems intent on putting them wherever fits his 4-3-3.

I don’t see why he hasn’t used a 4-2-3-1 that he’d used at Derby to get the best out of Kai.

Werner is getting hard to defend as he has missed an incredible amount of decent chances but you still want your best players in their best position and he’s barely played in his.

Lampard won’t and shouldn’t be sacked yet but he must know the figures above him will be discussing what should happen if it gets worse and he should therefore be making a change.

Perhaps changing to the 4-2-3-1 could be a magic moment like Contes switch to 3-4-3?? 

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3 minutes ago, DukesOfHazard said:

I don’t see why he hasn’t used a 4-2-3-1 that he’d used at Derby to get the best out of Kai.

We did use it to start the season though. It was until after Old Trafford in late October that we made the switch to 4-3-3. But the only game we looked convincing in it was against Crystal Palace at home and we were all over the place defensively in general.

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I'm concerned for Frank. I think he has a month to arrest the slump and get this squad to fulfill its potential. If there's no evidence of a turnaround in January, then I think he'll be gone sadly. History says our board won't wait until things get very bad (i.e. Arsenal under Arteta).

I've disagreed with board decisions in the past, but I have no doubt that they'll make an informed decision that they believe is in the best interests of the club. Roman has genuine love and affection for the club, and I think like us he wants Frank to succeed but he isn't afraid to make tough calls that will ruffle feathers.

Ideally, I prefer seeing managers see out the majority of their contract (Frank has now reached 50% of his contract). I'm always very hesitant to sack managers without exhausting every other avenue first.

The loss to Arsenal has understandably shaken the confidence of the supporter base. It wasn't long ago we were on a 17-match unbeaten run and now we're facing the brink of a crisis. It's hard to reconcile that literally in a space of a week, we're now the talk of a crisis after Arsenal have been subjected to it for weeks on end.

Last season, Frank had the benefit of less pressure and the goodwill of being a favourite son and club legend. This year with heavy investment in the squad, naturally expectations on him have risen and he's under more pressure to succeed.

Here's my summary of the positives and negatives of his tenure thus far.

Positives

  • Got us a Champions League spot despite being handicapped by a transfer ban and losing Hazard. Overall, his first season in charge considering the circumstances has to be classified as a "success".
  • Reached the FA Cup Final, but it was disappointing we couldn't prevail on the day.
  • Gave several academy products a chance to shine (i.e. Mount, Abraham, James etc.)
  • His return to the club has re-engaged a disillusioned fanbase after Sarri's time at the club.
  • Even though the squad isn't living up to it's potential right now, I think the squad is in better shape now than when he first took over. Whether he remains coach or someone takes over in the near future, the squad is in better shape to thrive and achieve success.

Negatives

  • Inexperience, both tactically and overall the nature and enormity of the job. It was always a concern from day 1, and question remains whether he has the capabilities to take us to the very top. It's possible this is Frank's ceiling at this stage of his managerial career, and he can't take us any further from here.
  • Several star signings have yet to fire (i.e. Werner and Havertz).
  • Haven't defeated anyone in the top 10 this season.
  • No trophies, though most were not expecting any in the first season. Our most realistic aim is the FA Cup, and possibly the Champions League if we time our form momentum correctly come February next year.

If the worst was to happen and things didn't work out with Frank, I wouldn't rule out a return further down the line when he gains more experience and managerial wisdom elsewhere.

Until all is said and done, I'm behind him 100%. A club legend like this needs our backing and support. I really hope he can pull through and prove the doubters wrong.

Edited by Jezz
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20 minutes ago, DukesOfHazard said:

This is it for me, you spend that sort of money on that kind of talent/potential you build around in particular Kai for me who looked like a future Ballon Dor winner before coming here. Yet Lampard seems intent on putting them wherever fits his 4-3-3.

I don’t see why he hasn’t used a 4-2-3-1 that he’d used at Derby to get the best out of Kai.

Werner is getting hard to defend as he has missed an incredible amount of decent chances but you still want your best players in their best position and he’s barely played in his.

Lampard won’t and shouldn’t be sacked yet but he must know the figures above him will be discussing what should happen if it gets worse and he should therefore be making a change.

Perhaps changing to the 4-2-3-1 could be a magic moment like Contes switch to 3-4-3?? 

He should try it because the 4-3-3 isn't really working, we're moving too slow without the ball. In a 4-2-3-1 we would naturally play a bit more deeper and that would potentially open more space for our wingers, even the pace of Werner come come into play more often. The problem might be if we are pressed but in the recent games we are pressed anyway so it makes no difference.

Mount can play with Kante deeper he's anyway doing that a lot in the 4-3-3 when he comes deep to get the ball but if we allow the opposition to push higher up the pitch that can be a good thing for anyone that can make a run or carry the ball. We're not really controlling games in this 4-3-3, we can't hold on to the ball and the ball moves slowly from Mount/Kante to Chilwell and that's it.

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I may be in the minority but I think Werner & Havertz will turn out to be good players for us.

I think (like a few of us) Frank needs to start playing these 2 in their correct positions so they can get better - it's hard to improve at something you don't even get to practice at.

Frank also needs to improve on his in-game management, he seems way too passive on the touchline, maybe a switch of formation or new instructions from time to time could help.

We have 3 injury prone wingers so we need to come up with different ways to beat opponents just in case a couple of them are injured at the same time.

I 100% want Frank to succeed but he'll need to start working harder on the training ground to overcome these problems.

With the City game in danger of being cancelled this could be the perfect opportunity for us to reset and then go again, starting with playing Werner & Kai in the correct positions against Wycombe to help build confidence for the rest of the season.

Edited by 2211
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1 hour ago, Jezz said:

I'm concerned for Frank. I think he has a month to arrest the slump and get this squad to fulfill its potential. If there's no evidence of a turnaround in January, then I think he'll be gone sadly. History says our board won't wait until things get very bad (i.e. Arsenal under Arteta).

I've disagreed with board decisions in the past, but I have no doubt that they'll make an informed decision that they believe is in the best interests of the club. Roman has genuine love and affection for the club, and I think like us he wants Frank to succeed but he isn't afraid to make tough calls that will ruffle feathers.

Ideally, I prefer seeing managers see out the majority of their contract (Frank has now reached 50% of his contract). I'm always very hesitant to sack managers without exhausting every other avenue first.

The loss to Arsenal has understandably shaken the confidence of the supporter base. It wasn't long ago we were on a 17-match unbeaten run and now we're facing the brink of a crisis. It's hard to reconcile that literally in a space of a week, we're now the talk of a crisis after Arsenal have been subjected to it for weeks on end.

Last season, Frank had the benefit of less pressure and the goodwill of being a favourite son and club legend. This year with heavy investment in the squad, naturally expectations on him have risen and he's under more pressure to succeed.

Here's my summary of the positives and negatives of his tenure thus far.

Positives

  • Got us a Champions League spot despite being handicapped by a transfer ban and losing Hazard. Overall, his first season in charge considering the circumstances has to be classified as a "success".
  • Reached the FA Cup Final, but it was disappointing we couldn't prevail on the day.
  • Gave several academy products a chance to shine (i.e. Mount, Abraham, James etc.)
  • His return to the club has re-engaged a disillusioned fanbase after Sarri's time at the club.
  • Even though the squad isn't living up to it's potential right now, I think the squad is in better shape now than when he first took over. Whether he remains coach or someone takes over in the near future, the squad is in better shape to thrive and achieve success.

Negatives

  • Inexperience, both tactically and overall the nature and enormity of the job. It was always a concern from day 1, and question remains whether he has the capabilities to take us to the very top. It's possible this is Frank's ceiling at this stage of his managerial career, and he can't take us any further from here.
  • Several star signings have yet to fire (i.e. Werner and Havertz).
  • Haven't defeated anyone in the top 10 this season.
  • No trophies, though most were not expecting any in the first season. Our most realistic aim is the FA Cup, and possibly the Champions League if we time our form momentum correctly come February next year.

If the worst was to happen and things didn't work out with Frank, I wouldn't rule out a return further down the line when he gains more experience and managerial wisdom elsewhere.

Until all is said and done, I'm behind him 100%. A club legend like this needs our backing and support. I really hope he can pull through and prove the doubters wrong.

Tremendous post.  My only addition would be adding to the several star signings, in that also playing them out of position / chopping and changing the team has led to mental and physical fatigue and overall loss in confidence.  It's hard to reconcile why Odoi continued to be on the bench and we squeezed Werner or Havertz in on the wings, which from what we've seen, was a failed experiment.

We have to address the midfield and play a settled side. I'm not sure we have the players to fully address the midfield - two open play goals from all our midfielders this season is woeful.  Regarding the settled side, its hard to believe we're almost in 2021 and yet to really field our best 11. 

Standing by Frank though.  I do believe he can turn this around, but the players need to buy in and deliver more.  I'm not seeing the effort or desire that is required to win PL games.  The comment made about not defeating a single opponent in the top 10 is alarming.  My other concern is this relatively young side is quite weak mentally - a lot of success at a very young age - is there enough drive there to go on and be players of the caliber of Frank, Ballack, Drogba and Terry.  I'm not so sure.

 

 

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12 hours ago, Slojo said:

Does anyone not find it weird that when Giroud is playing we cross less? But when other strikers are playing all we ever do is cross?

We need a Fabregas type player in there. Someone who will create something out of nothing. If Inter Milan do not want Eriksen, he could be an option for us (?). 

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7 minutes ago, PhilH930 said:

Tremendous post.  My only addition would be adding to the several star signings, in that also playing them out of position / chopping and changing the team has led to mental and physical fatigue and overall loss in confidence.  It's hard to reconcile why Odoi continued to be on the bench and we squeezed Werner or Havertz in on the wings, which from what we've seen, was a failed experiment.

We have to address the midfield and play a settled side. I'm not sure we have the players to fully address the midfield - two open play goals from all our midfielders this season is woeful.  Regarding the settled side, its hard to believe we're almost in 2021 and yet to really field our best 11. 

Standing by Frank though.  I do believe he can turn this around, but the players need to buy in and deliver more.  I'm not seeing the effort or desire that is required to win PL games.  The comment made about not defeating a single opponent in the top 10 is alarming.  My other concern is this relatively young side is quite weak mentally - a lot of success at a very young age - is there enough drive there to go on and be players of the caliber of Frank, Ballack, Drogba and Terry.  I'm not so sure.

 

 

Regarding the experience factor. It is very difficult to buy top quality players with experience. I also don't necessarily believe experience is as important as made out. We have had experienced players, but they didn't have enough quality. There's a difference between experience and quality. I'd rather a young player with immense quality over an experienced player who isn't good enough for a club like ours. 

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1 hour ago, Jezz said:

I'm concerned for Frank. I think he has a month to arrest the slump and get this squad to fulfill its potential. If there's no evidence of a turnaround in January, then I think he'll be gone sadly. History says our board won't wait until things get very bad (i.e. Arsenal under Arteta).

I've disagreed with board decisions in the past, but I have no doubt that they'll make an informed decision that they believe is in the best interests of the club. Roman has genuine love and affection for the club, and I think like us he wants Frank to succeed but he isn't afraid to make tough calls that will ruffle feathers.

Ideally, I prefer seeing managers see out the majority of their contract (Frank has now reached 50% of his contract). I'm always very hesitant to sack managers without exhausting every other avenue first.

The loss to Arsenal has understandably shaken the confidence of the supporter base. It wasn't long ago we were on a 17-match unbeaten run and now we're facing the brink of a crisis. It's hard to reconcile that literally in a space of a week, we're now the talk of a crisis after Arsenal have been subjected to it for weeks on end.

Last season, Frank had the benefit of less pressure and the goodwill of being a favourite son and club legend. This year with heavy investment in the squad, naturally expectations on him have risen and he's under more pressure to succeed.

Here's my summary of the positives and negatives of his tenure thus far.

Positives

  • Got us a Champions League spot despite being handicapped by a transfer ban and losing Hazard. Overall, his first season in charge considering the circumstances has to be classified as a "success".
  • Reached the FA Cup Final, but it was disappointing we couldn't prevail on the day.
  • Gave several academy products a chance to shine (i.e. Mount, Abraham, James etc.)
  • His return to the club has re-engaged a disillusioned fanbase after Sarri's time at the club.
  • Even though the squad isn't living up to it's potential right now, I think the squad is in better shape now than when he first took over. Whether he remains coach or someone takes over in the near future, the squad is in better shape to thrive and achieve success.

Negatives

  • Inexperience, both tactically and overall the nature and enormity of the job. It was always a concern from day 1, and question remains whether he has the capabilities to take us to the very top. It's possible this is Frank's ceiling at this stage of his managerial career, and he can't take us any further from here.
  • Several star signings have yet to fire (i.e. Werner and Havertz).
  • Haven't defeated anyone in the top 10 this season.
  • No trophies, though most were not expecting any in the first season. Our most realistic aim is the FA Cup, and possibly the Champions League if we time our form momentum correctly come February next year.

If the worst was to happen and things didn't work out with Frank, I wouldn't rule out a return further down the line when he gains more experience and managerial wisdom elsewhere.

Until all is said and done, I'm behind him 100%. A club legend like this needs our backing and support. I really hope he can pull through and prove the doubters wrong.

Can't argue with any of that. Unless we manage to turn things around in the league over the next month I suspect it will all come down to the Champions League. if we make an exit in the last 16 the board may gamble on a new manager to mount a late challenge for top 4 in that case.

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12 minutes ago, enigma said:

We need a Fabregas type player in there. Someone who will create something out of nothing. If Inter Milan do not want Eriksen, he could be an option for us (?). 

Isn't that what we were anticipating from Kai? I still think he will be the creator of this team but I doubt we will see the best of him this season. Beyond that I think we desperately miss Ziyech's creativity. He seems more than a winger to me. So much of our best football went through him before he got injured.

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17 minutes ago, enigma said:

We need a Fabregas type player in there. Someone who will create something out of nothing. If Inter Milan do not want Eriksen, he could be an option for us (?). 

I agree with you although I’m not so sure about Eriksen. He seems to have lost interest in football oddly enough.

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3 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Interesting how now stats totally matter for Timo and Kai even when both spent most games filling in the gaps in the 4-3-3 formation, Lampard didn't build the team around them this season at all, he could have done that but he chose to settle in Mount back in his position and to find the new position for Kante.

Timo started the season well but got burned out running down the wing and lost confidence. He's a striker that is known for missing chances but just by being the striker he's capable of getting into more than enough chances to make up for his misses. That's not possible when he's asked to provide for others, he spent so much energy just to get into a chance only to miss it and then he goes cold and spends another 30 minutes just hugging the touchline and then whoops he misses again...
He was played in the wrong way most of the time and the few goals he did score in the PL, half of them he created by himself, Jorginho's long ball wasn't an assist for Jorginho officially, it was Timo that had so many touches there and basically created the goal himself. Then he got a pass on the wing, ran the counter attack by himself, passed 4-5 players and scored in another game, that's him trying to force it and most of the time it won't work but it looked great that one time, that's not us playing tactically well, that's equivalent to buying Messi/Maradona and him running past 4 players for a goal but that doesn't make your tactics good.

Kai was mostly filling in for whoever wasn't there to play in a certain position, the few games where he played as the AM he delivered almost every game.
For some reason Lampard decided to play him as a false 9 against Liverpool, Christensen got a red card and Kai was subbed off. That's not him playing bad, that's just random, you have Tammy, Giroud, Werner but you simply have to play Kai as a false 9 against Liverpool so early on in the season when he didn't even have a pre-season and then you take him off because your Christensen lost the game for you already.
But after that game Lampard played him correctly, he was the AM in 3 games in a row, he scored, assisted and won a penalty during that time so he had a run of 3 games where he did well and then it ended when Lampard changed the formation for the Spurs game and Kai played once again only 45 minutes in a different role, after that point Lampard used him as the CM, RW, basically wherever he needed to fill in so that's not really how you make a new player settle in.

Is it really that mind-blowing how the new signings that play well are players that are never asked do do something other than what they are the best at? Ziyech was never moved outside of the right wing, Chilwell and T.Silva obviously only play their natural positions.
But then people are surprised that Timo and Kai have weak stats, I mean even Ziyech had a bad game at least once and he only played in his strongest position, why do we expect new players to perform well when we don't use them correctly?

It's the manager's job to use his players in the best way where their best abilities will come into play, it's the manager's job to provide for the best possible ways so that they perform. Last season Lampard blamed the players for not being clinical enough and it's true we missed a lot of chances but he's not doing any favors to anyone by demanding that Werner simply figures it out on the wing and changes his player-profile in a matter of a few months, that's taking a big risk and a big leap of faith and of course it hasn't paid out!

Same for Kai, a huge signing that spent 30% of the time on the wing playing way too wide. Like I said, if you want a new young player to settle in fast and to contribute you should play him in his best position where you would have the most chances that he delivers as soon as possible.

Solskjaer doesn't play Fernandes or van De Beek on the wing, he's not trying to re-invent those players he just puts them where they play their best game and hopes for the best. And it's working...

Spot on post, It’s staggering how people will defend anything when it’s Lampard. Any other manager spending £200 million and playing players out of position would not get this treatment. Remember Kante under Sarri my word the abuse he got. 
 

People just can’t separate the footballer from the Manager it’s clouding their judgement because of the emotional Connection. 
 

Let me be absolutely CLEAR Lampard as player one of my absolute favourite players ever. Lampard as a manager, my views aren’t based on my feelings of him the player.

 

This is Chelsea we are winners, one of the most of not the most successful English team in the last 20 years we win trophies even In sh*t seasons.

Anyone saying they would accept midtable just to keep Lampard thank f**k the board probably won’t accept that so glad you guys or girls are not on the board.

You really think Roman invested his money for midtable finish?? When has he ever accepted that??? 

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10 minutes ago, Brutos said:

This is Chelsea we are winners, one of the most of not the most successful English team in the last 20 years we win trophies even In sh*t seasons.

Anyone saying they would accept midtable just to keep Lampard thank f**k the board probably won’t accept that so glad you guys or girls are not on the board.

Who's saying that? I haven't seen any.

No one is saying midtable is fine. Giving Lampard some time and see how it pans out is an entirely different matter. He didn't finish midtable last season did he? No, as a matter of fact he did great.

We are going through a difficult period. Every team does at some point. Lampard will need to get us out of it or his job will be in jeopardy sooner or later. That's just the name of the game at this club. But for now we've "only" been poor for a rather short period of time. Until we faced Krasnodar on December 8th we were looking great. Absymal since but it's only been three weeks. Have some patience.

It's one thing highlighting the issues that needs to be solved. Because there certainly are a few. But calling for Lampards head at this point is just stupid.

Edited by Sindre
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9 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Who's saying that? I haven't seen any.

No one is saying midtable is fine. Giving Lampard some time and see how it pans out is an entirely different matter. He didn't finish midtable last season did he? No, as a matter of fact he did great.

We are going through a difficult period. Every team does at some point. Lampard will need to get us out of it or his job will be in jeopardy sooner or later. That's just the name of the game at this club. But for now we've "only" been poor for a rather short period of time. Until we faced Krasnodar on December 8th we were looking great. Absymal since but it's only been three weeks. Have some patience.

It's one thing highlighting the issues that needs to be solved. Because there certainly are a few. But calling for Lampards head at this point is just stupid.

Amen Sindre. Great to have a few calm and rational posters along the chaos.

In a few weeks time I feel a lot of people will feel embarrassed for what they’ve said past couple of weeks.

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10 minutes ago, Brutos said:

Spot on post, It’s staggering how people will defend anything when it’s Lampard. Any other manager spending £200 million and playing players out of position would not get this treatment. Remember Kante under Sarri my word the abuse he got. 
 

People just can’t separate the footballer from the Manager it’s clouding their judgement because of the emotional Connection. 
 

Let me be absolutely CLEAR Lampard as player one of my absolute favourite players ever. Lampard as a manager, my views aren’t based on my feelings of him the player.

 

This is Chelsea we are winners, one of the most of not the most successful English team in the last 20 years we win trophies even In sh*t seasons.

Anyone saying they would accept midtable just to keep Lampard thank f**k the board probably won’t accept that so glad you guys or girls are not on the board.

You really think Roman invested his money for midtable finish?? When has he ever accepted that??? 

I have defended Lampard too but in some cases I was openly against some of his decisions, e.g. I was against Mount playing on the wing and I'm almost exclusively against him putting any kind of trust in Christensen, if I were him I wouldn't do those things myself so I only say it because I want the best for him and for us and for the most part those particular decisions didn't help Lampard at all.

Make no mistake though, for me he can play whoever he wants, as long as we're winning. Last season after the break he set up a different lineup for a few games and we were winning and I openly debated a few people when I said that as long as he's winning he can bench or play whoever he wants.

Sarri got us to top 3, it was a hard season but we got there and if he hadn't chosen to leave for Juventus Roman wouldn't have sacked him because he got the job done for that season. Conte won us the FA Cup and I loved him as our manager but he was constantly making things harder for himself and he was in an open war with the board, that mentality was leading him out of the club and let's face it, his Morata signing was really bad.

I think that all fans wish Lampard to succeed, but he has to play his cards right, our absolute best scenario is Lampard turning things around by winning games. I don't want Werner to become his Morata, I want Werner to destroy the league.

But the point is, this 50% win rate isn't good enough. Lampard is playing mostly young players so some serious consistency will always be hard to achieve but he in my eyes has a responsibility when someone like Werner looks like he's totally lost, yes he looks bad but why does he look that bad in the first place? Work it out, he signed Timo to make things easier for him, not harder.

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The sense of Entitlement is bewildering, just because we have (imho) our greatest player doesn't make it that our team will be successful, just imagine the bewilderment when the wheels of the Anfield juggernaut fell off for 3 Decades.
Lampard has shown glimpses of potential, but maybe the job is to much for him and Jodie, a much better and far more experienced manager (carlo) got mercilessly stabbed by Romans hitman at Everton.
He's shown his limitations so far, because apart from actually seeing Pulisic Werner Ziyech, the much vaunted trio we want to see, the structure and actual style seems mystifying, Giroud is the only player who will benefit from the 443, so what he does with his riches will be eagerly viewed by the management, and mostly us on here atm..

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I think Frank wanted to play the 4-2-3-1 yet Kai had his issues initially with injuries and match fitness and it wasn't working so it has been 4-3-3 since.

The issue we have with 4-2-3-1 is certain forward players don't help that much defensively like Pulisic and Werner currently meaning you can be overrun defensively.

Frank did reasonably well until December and the xmas period especially bearing in mind the number of players that were out for some time.  

He is looking jaded at times with the frequency of matches that is understandable yet we all know Chelsea is not a normal club it has ambitious owners, so Frank's leadership is not guaranteed.

The break that might come from the COVID concern might give him time to turn it around and get us playing better, we know Conte would. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, enigma said:

We need a Fabregas type player in there. Someone who will create something out of nothing. If Inter Milan do not want Eriksen, he could be an option for us (?). 

I don’t necessarily think this is an issue in the short term, though I am a big fan of a “Fabregas-type” creative player. It is obvious Lamps is trying to mirror the Liverpool style of football, which is playing through the wings with our fullbacks being our creative hub. We managed to do this in the first few games but he seems to have switched something tactically.

Most of our possession seems to be at the back with Zouma & Thiago taking too many touches, and playing square passes to the backline. Ideally it’s the fullbacks that are meant to be taking this touches as they move the ball vertically up the field. Our wingers are also not taking enough touches in the opposition box. That is why we have a Werner now hugging the touch line trying to swing in crosses. His average position needs to be around the opposition box not so far out wide.

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2 hours ago, enigma said:

Regarding the experience factor. It is very difficult to buy top quality players with experience. I also don't necessarily believe experience is as important as made out. We have had experienced players, but they didn't have enough quality. There's a difference between experience and quality. I'd rather a young player with immense quality over an experienced player who isn't good enough for a club like ours. 

Fair point.  My comment was geared towards experience in knowing how to win, and general concern that our younger, high potential players aren't necessarily born winners.  England is full of them - Arsenal players, Rashford, Grealish, Barkley (older now), RLC, Odoi, Tammy, Mount - you could go on.  I just don't see the hunger in them that you do in other top quality footballers, experiecned or not.  Time will tell though as they are still young in their careers.

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All this talk that we have the best squad in the league. Why? Because our backups are internationals? That does not mean they are good players imo.

Take for example our back up left backs. Emerson is an Italian international, still useless.

Alonso? Good wingback, awful leftback.

Rudiger german international can be decent, Christensen Danish International, as soft as a snowflake.

Tomori, England international, trusted less tha  Christensen?!! WTF.

Dave, Spanish occasional international. Mustard.

Kepa 72mill, lmao.

Kovacic, Croatian international but a headless chicken and vastly overrated.

Jorginho, Italian international but if you do not give him time to dictate play he struggles badly. Everyone sees this.

Gilmour, Scotish international but completely unproven commodity.

Anjorin, youth international, see Gilmour

CHO, England international but injury prone and in and out of form. Still only 20.

 

Arguable There is no back up striker which to me says, in spells Werner, Giroud and Tammy have all done well but not enough to say "I am the man". Though maybe Timo would if given more chances up top at the striker.

 

So yeah from all that you have one quality backup, Dave, one passable one, Rudiger, and two good ones in Tammy and Giroud. The rest are unproven because of age or injury, or I would sell if we got a half decent offer for.

 

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15 hours ago, dansubrosa said:

The thing is, we won’t finish mid table. Do you really think we will continue with this bad form for the rest of the season?

I think we will finish top 4, it may go to final day but top 4 is good enough for me. The attitude I have seen from people recently, I would be on the same boat a year later - When the new signings have had a year to settle plus even more signings of course. 

But right now, no we got to remember this is his first year with new signings - Cut him some slack and he will figure it out.

6 new signings. That’s a heck a lot to settle in.

I really don't think we should rule it out. Our results this season have been very poor. Our home form and form against top 10 teams is terrible. Even during the unbeaten run, we still didn't get a single win against a top 10 side, so if that was us at our best, then how are we going to get results against them when we are at our worst? 

In recent seasons, when we get into these positions, things don't really improve and it becomes a grind until the end of the season and we start relying on teams around us to screw up. Last season we only had to worry about United and Leicester, and Leicester were the team that dropped off. Now we have 8 or 9 teams that will fancy their chances of getting into the top 4. 

Look at the teams above us, they have games in hand on us. If they win those games, they could all be 6 points ahead of us. Then we look at the teams behind us, like City, another team that has two games in hand on us. They win those games and they are 6 points ahead of us too, and there is a chance of them pulling even further ahead if they beat us in the next game. Tottenham can go 3 ahead of us if they win their game in hand too.

Chasing 1 or 2 teams is doable, but chasing 6 is asking for a miracle. If we fail to beat City, then I am already writing us off. 

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18 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

I really don't think we should rule it out. Our results this season have been very poor. Our home form and form against top 10 teams is terrible. Even during the unbeaten run, we still didn't get a single win against a top 10 side, so if that was us at our best, then how are we going to get results against them when we are at our worst? 

In recent seasons, when we get into these positions, things don't really improve and it becomes a grind until the end of the season and we start relying on teams around us to screw up. Last season we only had to worry about United and Leicester, and Leicester were the team that dropped off. Now we have 8 or 9 teams that will fancy their chances of getting into the top 4. 

Look at the teams above us, they have games in hand on us. If they win those games, they could all be 6 points ahead of us. Then we look at the teams behind us, like City, another team that has two games in hand on us. They win those games and they are 6 points ahead of us too, and there is a chance of them pulling even further ahead if they beat us in the next game. Tottenham can go 3 ahead of us if they win their game in hand too.

Chasing 1 or 2 teams is doable, but chasing 6 is asking for a miracle. If we fail to beat City, then I am already writing us off. 

I personally feel we will be competing against Spurs for the 4th spot, we are experiencing a lot of inconsistency from teams at the top of the league due to the higher number of games that we've played in a short period and not to forget the travel involved with that across Europe. Once the busy schedule is over I can see teams starting to operate at there normal levels, teams who are over achieving such as Leicester, Villa & Everton have huge reliances on a handful of individual players such as Grealish, Vardy & Calvert Lewin and if they get injured or dip there form I can see those sides drop down the table fairly quickly. 

Everyone on this forum would say that we have not played anywhere near our optimum level yet we are still within touching distance of 4th, I can see Werner, Havertz improving and once Ziyech is back he would certainly add some creativity to the side. I still think we can achieve top 4 even if we lose to City. 

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I think if you look at this like you own the club then it’s a whole different picture. We are worse off at this point compared to last season and invested £200m in the playing staff. We can’t beat teams in the so called top 6 around us and that shows that not much progress is being made. I’m not in the sack Frank brigade I think it’s time to realise that his coaching team were good for bringing the youth through last season but trying to manage 22 Big name players through a season is a whole different game they just aren’t good enough. We should invest in a big name number 2 that Frank agrees with and take some of the pressure off.  If we don’t I can only see one outcome because we aren’t progressing as well as we should. Plus anyone who thinks they are happy with mid table are kidding themselves because I know one person who won’t be.......Roman A!!

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  • coco changed the title to *Officially sacked* but still Super Frank Lampard
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