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Super Frank Lampard


Eton Blue at the Chelsea Megastore

Sack or Back ???  

116 members have voted

  1. 1. Sack or Back Frank ?

    • Sack now.
      35
    • Back until the end of the season, unless relegation dooms, then evaluate.
      81

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Guest Sindre
2 minutes ago, Bluesince66 said:

Sorry but you can also say its insanity persisting with a manager with very little experience who's team looks lost,and extremely void of ideas. 

We have only looked lost and void of ideas for a month. Why judge Lampard on the back of such a short period of time when he did well for his first 16 months at the club? It's easy to forget the good stuff when you are in the sh*t but up until December, Lampard did very well for the club.

Do I fear the club is about to make a rash decision and sack him? Yes I do.
I can see reasons why the club would panic and make that kind of dramatic decision.

Would I support it? Not at all.
If the club, supporters and players managed to keep a cool head during this time I believe we would come out stronger on the other side. Lampard is clearly a very talented manager. Last season proved that.

 

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It's easy to say the squad is terrible now that the team is performing terribly, but was that the consensus before the season started? We were all (cautiously) optimistic that we'd kick on from last season after spending a lot of money. I don't know how much say Lampard has on transfers, but so far the two biggest signings look like flops and haven't addressed any of the issues in the team. If anything, we've regressed from last season. 

Changing managers frequently hurts the team in the long term and results in wasted investments because we keep buying players who subsequent managers do not rate, so I honestly don't know what to think at this point. Most of us were rooting for Lampard to succeed and be our long-term manager but it's not looking good. 

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1 hour ago, haviet1 said:

 

This sums it up very well. No matter what happens, nothing will take away the fact that Frank is a Chelsea LEGEND. And there's nothing to say that he can't be a fantastic manager one day in the future.

But if you can take a moment to think logically and clearly, the fact is that this job might have come a bit too early for Frank in his managerial career. And as I have said before, it wasn't his fault that the job was handed to him. If Frank eventually get sacked, I blame the board rather than Frank.

 

 

He could have declined it though. Gerrard has declined a few PL managerial roles, choosing to learn his trade in the SPL.

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Just now, ducavis said:

He could have declined it though. Gerrard has declined a few PL managerial roles, choosing to learn his trade in the SPL.

That is a fair point, although I wonder if Gerrard would have turned down the Liverpool job had he been approached? I doubt it due to the emotional connection with the club.

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1 minute ago, Sindre said:

We have only looked lost and void of ideas for a month. Why judge Lampard on the back of such a short period of time when he did well for his first 16 months at the club? It's easy to forget the good stuff when you are in the sh*t but up until December, Lampard did very well for the club.

Do I fear the club is about to make a rash decision and sack him? Yes I do.
I can see reasons why the club would panic and make that kind of dramatic decision.

Would I support it? Not at all.
If the club, supporters and players managed to keep a cool head during this time I believe we would come out stronger on the other side. Lampard is clearly a very talented manager. Last season proved that.

 

Sorry but I'm not judging Frank on the back of that game,although I wouldn’t want him sacked before the end of the season,I've said all along we won't win anything with him,he should have had a few more years learning before coming home.

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Earlier this season I though Jose was in big trouble. Then Ole, and Arteta more recently looked done. But in all cases they have turned things around for now. It is very possible that Frank turns it around in the short term if he gets a lucky break that brings a rise in confidence. Hard to know if he can ultimately deliver success to the club as he is clearly still very inexperienced. I have no idea whether or not he will get that chance. My guess that he might get the rest of January to show some signs of turning it around, but he would probably need to show more than that for the remainder of the season to keep his job past the summer. As we have seen with other clubs this season a quick run of wins can change things very quickly but we need to refind some form soon or the top 4 will be out of reach.

If Frank is shown the door I am not as confident as others on here that an interim can immediately turn things around either.  Although we spent a fair bit of money last summer the squad is still nowhere near good enough. It is still mostly the youth that did so well last season that have been our best performers this season. Chilwell probably the notable exception. Ziyech has been good although we need to hope he can stay clear of injuries for more than a few weeks at a time. The 2 Germans have been very disappointing although I still think they will improve in time. Even with them there are a lot of players who do not look good enough if we want to challenge the top teams. Zouma, Christensen, Jorginho, and Kovacic for a start. Dave is understandably showing signs of age and probably should be phased out. With all that considered we will need to invest more in midfield and defense, or hope that more of our youth players will be good enough. Especially those returning from loans this summer like Guehi, and Gallagher. 

I'd be interested to know also who is making the decisions over signings? Is that on Frank or others at the club? If it is others then they also need to be scrutinized over some of the disappointing transfers in recent seasons.

 

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1 minute ago, Zeta said:

Who could we realistically get who would be a big upgrade? We've been through so many managers.

If the club decided to part with Lamps the obvious ones, as they are without clubs, are Allgeri and Tuchel. Would they be upgrades? Time would tell.

All in all I actually find this situation quite fascinating and in a way am grateful for it.

Here me out, Last month has not been fun. However this gives us a real insight in to what Roman is looking for moving forward.

If he expected the investment to lead to quick success Lamps is dead in the water.

If he is looking to build over the long term and realizes there will be bad periods to get through, and feels Frank like the young players can improve, he will stick by him.

Now we should get a clear picture of what our owner is looking for. Because appointing Lamps is so against the grain of all his permanent appointments before. 

Jose, Carlo, Scolari, AVB, RDM, Jose again, winners winners winners.

Only Sarri was not, and he came in for his style and he won.

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7 minutes ago, Zeta said:

Who could we realistically get who would be a big upgrade? We've been through so many managers.

That is my question too. It is not just about the manager but the long term strategy of the club. Do we continue with the aim to include the talented youth players coming through? If so we need a manager that is willing to that. Many of the obvious candidates will not be willing to take that approach and will expect seasoned international signings. I would imagine for example that Allegri will immediately favour players like Jorginho and Kovacic over some of our younger players.

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Frank should get at least until the end of the season. We were never winning the title this season anyway. If this poor form continues in the next month or two and we drop out of top10 then start searching for next manager and anounce him at the end of the season. 

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4 minutes ago, forbzy said:

Earlier this season I though Jose was in big trouble. Then Ole, and Arteta more recently looked done. But in all cases they have turned things around for now. It is very possible that Frank turns it around in the short term if he gets a lucky break that brings a rise in confidence. Hard to know if he can ultimately deliver success to the club as he is clearly still very inexperienced. I have no idea whether or not he will get that chance. My guess that he might get the rest of January to show some signs of turning it around, but he would probably need to show more than that for the remainder of the season to keep his job past the summer. As we have seen with other clubs this season a quick run of wins can change things very quickly but we need to refind some form soon or the top 4 will be out of reach.

If Frank is shown the door I am not as confident as others on here that an interim can immediately turn things around either.  Although we spent a fair bit of money last summer the squad is still nowhere near good enough. It is still mostly the youth that did so well last season that have been our best performers this season. Chilwell probably the notable exception. Ziyech has been good although we need to hope he can stay clear of injuries for more than a few weeks at a time. The 2 Germans have been very disappointing although I still think they will improve in time. Even with them there are a lot of players who do not look good enough if we want to challenge the top teams. Zouma, Christensen, Jorginho, and Kovacic for a start. Dave is understandably showing signs of age and probably should be phased out. With all that considered we will need to invest more in midfield and defense, or hope that more of our youth players will be good enough. Especially those returning from loans this summer like Guehi, and Gallagher. 

I'd be interested to know also who is making the decisions over signings? Is that on Frank or others at the club? If it is others then they also need to be scrutinized over some of the disappointing transfers in recent seasons.

 

Nothing wrong with the signings in last couple of windows. All of them have been class players. If they generally decline after joining you talk about the coaching staff, not the scouting team - which I believe includes frank. 

Our squad looks bad because it's not being coached well. A world class manager could get this team challenging for the title. 

I'd give frank the season to show is if he has the minerals to develop into that manager. But if we hired the right replacement in the summer, this squad doesn't need much in the way of signings to be a title winner. I'd say Rice, a GK and a wide player (who doesn't get injured) is all we need in the summer. 

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I find it difficult to understand how things have become so bad when we started so well. This run we’re in is awful and we look very tired/lethargic. 
 

My question is, what is the reason the players aren’t playing with the same intensity/aggression? Is it tiredness? Players not playing for Frank? 
 

I don’t believe this group of players have stopped playing for him but they’re not responding to him for some reason. He’s called them out in public, he’s backed and taken the blame - but still no response. 
 

I want to believe it’s just tiredness..but I’m struggling to believe that the longer this run goes on.  

Edited by JM7
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3 minutes ago, forbzy said:

Earlier this season I though Jose was in big trouble. Then Ole, and Arteta more recently looked done. But in all cases they have turned things around for now. It is very possible that Frank turns it around in the short term if he gets a lucky break that brings a rise in confidence. Hard to know if he can ultimately deliver success to the club as he is clearly still very inexperienced. I have no idea whether or not he will get that chance. My guess that he might get the rest of January to show some signs of turning it around, but he would probably need to show more than that for the remainder of the season to keep his job past the summer. As we have seen with other clubs this season a quick run of wins can change things very quickly but we need to refind some form soon or the top 4 will be out of reach.

If Frank is shown the door I am not as confident as others on here that an interim can immediately turn things around either.  Although we spent a fair bit of money last summer the squad is still nowhere near good enough. It is still mostly the youth that did so well last season that have been our best performers this season. Chilwell probably the notable exception. Ziyech has been good although we need to hope he can stay clear of injuries for more than a few weeks at a time. The 2 Germans have been very disappointing although I still think they will improve in time. Even with them there are a lot of players who do not look good enough if we want to challenge the top teams. Zouma, Christensen, Jorginho, and Kovacic for a start. Dave is understandably showing signs of age and probably should be phased out. With all that considered we will need to invest more in midfield and defense, or hope that more of our youth players will be good enough. Especially those returning from loans this summer like Guehi, and Gallagher. 

I'd be interested to know also who is making the decisions over signings? Is that on Frank or others at the club? If it is others then they also need to be scrutinized over some of the disappointing transfers in recent seasons.

 

The difference and the issue is Ole & Arteta to an extent can win the big games. 
I hope he is given the whole season as I think the manager pool is very limited personally, but the interim manager route has usually worked out for us. The “new manager bounce” worked under Di Matteo, Benitez, Hiddink and almost worked even under Avram Grant, but I will make an exception and let him See out this season.

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5 minutes ago, forbzy said:

That is my question too. It is not just about the manager but the long term strategy of the club. Do we continue with the aim to include the talented youth players coming through? If so we need a manager that is willing to that. Many of the obvious candidates will not be willing to take that approach and will expect seasoned international signings. I would imagine for example that Allegri will immediately favour players like Jorginho and Kovacic over some of our younger players.

I would imagine that smart, experienced manager would play whoever gets him the points. You all talk like all of those players need Frank to babysit them. Their situation is similar to Franks. They're Chelsea boys and I want them to succed, but at the end of the day they have to show that they deserve to be in a team that wants to fight for titles just as Frank needed to in his playing days when managers changed. 

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1 minute ago, bisright1 said:

Nothing wrong with the signings in last couple of windows. All of them have been class players. If they generally decline after joining you talk about the coaching staff, not the scouting team - which I believe includes frank. 

Our squad looks bad because it's not being coached well. A world class manager could get this team challenging for the title. 

I'd give frank the season to show is if he has the minerals to develop into that manager. But if we hired the right replacement in the summer, this squad doesn't need much in the way of signings to be a title winner. I'd say Rice, a GK and a wide player (who doesn't get injured) is all we need in the summer. 

You can honestly look at our central defense options, not to mention our backups at full back, and say they are good enough. Thiago Silva is quality but as we have been reminded on a couple of occasions, he is past his best and is only a stop gap. None of our other options look consistently good enough in the center. Although I would like to see Tomori given another chance.

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Is it worth Frank changing the system for a while to a 343? We’ve generally looked better using that and it might freshen something up. 
 

I don’t know what the answer is but something has to change. 

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Just now, forbzy said:

You can honestly look at our central defense options, not to mention our backups at full back, and say they are good enough. Thiago Silva is quality but as we have been reminded on a couple of occasions, he is past his best and is only a stop gap. None of our other options look consistently good enough in the center. Although I would like to see Tomori given another chance.

Yes. I think Zouma would be a starter at every PL club bar Liverpool. I think Rudiger would be every club bar Liverpool and City. 

Christensen is 4th choice and Guehi looks v promising. 

Our full backs are good enough too to win the title. Jesus you don't need world class backups at full back to win the title!

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13 minutes ago, forbzy said:

Earlier this season I though Jose was in big trouble. Then Ole, and Arteta more recently looked done. But in all cases they have turned things around for now. It is very possible that Frank turns it around in the short term if he gets a lucky break that brings a rise in confidence. Hard to know if he can ultimately deliver success to the club as he is clearly still very inexperienced. I have no idea whether or not he will get that chance. My guess that he might get the rest of January to show some signs of turning it around, but he would probably need to show more than that for the remainder of the season to keep his job past the summer. As we have seen with other clubs this season a quick run of wins can change things very quickly but we need to refind some form soon or the top 4 will be out of reach.

If Frank is shown the door I am not as confident as others on here that an interim can immediately turn things around either.  Although we spent a fair bit of money last summer the squad is still nowhere near good enough. It is still mostly the youth that did so well last season that have been our best performers this season. Chilwell probably the notable exception. Ziyech has been good although we need to hope he can stay clear of injuries for more than a few weeks at a time. The 2 Germans have been very disappointing although I still think they will improve in time. Even with them there are a lot of players who do not look good enough if we want to challenge the top teams. Zouma, Christensen, Jorginho, and Kovacic for a start. Dave is understandably showing signs of age and probably should be phased out. With all that considered we will need to invest more in midfield and defense, or hope that more of our youth players will be good enough. Especially those returning from loans this summer like Guehi, and Gallagher. 

I'd be interested to know also who is making the decisions over signings? Is that on Frank or others at the club? If it is others then they also need to be scrutinized over some of the disappointing transfers in recent seasons.

 

Jose was never in trouble. It was just the regular hysteria after he lost the first PL game. Ole was also getting the odd win here and there even when they were performing badly. Arteta was the only one in real trouble and we helped him get out of it

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1 minute ago, ducavis said:

The difference and the issue is Ole & Arteta to an extent can win the big games. 
I hope he is given the whole season as I think the manager pool is very limited personally, but the interim manager route has usually worked out for us. The “new manager bounce” worked under Di Matteo, Benitez, Hiddink and almost worked even under Avram Grant, but I will make an exception and let him See out this season.

Not sure either Ole, or Arteta can confidently say they win the big games. Arteta won the cup final last season but the FA Cup is not what it was. They got a big win against us a couple of weeks ago but that was more down to our poor form. They have a winnable run of games and I think will rise up the table a bit, but the underlying issues are there and will return.

Unite genuinely have a good squad and should be challenging for the big trophies. They look weak defensively though and I feel that will cost them in the big games, as it did in the Champions League, and the Europa last season.

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1 minute ago, bisright1 said:

Yes. I think Zouma would be a starter at every PL club bar Liverpool. I think Rudiger would be every club bar Liverpool and City. 

Christensen is 4th choice and Guehi looks v promising. 

Our full backs are good enough too to win the title. Jesus you don't need world class backups at full back to win the title!

We'll have to agree to disagree on Zouma, Christensen, and Rudiger. I agree we don't need world class cover at those positions but we still need players that can fill in competently when those players are injured. Dave is able to do so at right back although he is starting to look long in the tooth. Neither of our left back cover options are ideal.

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8 minutes ago, forbzy said:

That is my question too. It is not just about the manager but the long term strategy of the club. Do we continue with the aim to include the talented youth players coming through? If so we need a manager that is willing to that. Many of the obvious candidates will not be willing to take that approach and will expect seasoned international signings. I would imagine for example that Allegri will immediately favour players like Jorginho and Kovacic over some of our younger players.

Allegri probably wouldn't even want the job without having the option to sign at least 1 big signing for the CB position at the very least.

I read somewhere that he was supposed to be the next PSG manager but he wanted 12m euros per season so they went with Poch.

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1 minute ago, forbzy said:

We'll have to agree to disagree on Zouma, Christensen, and Rudiger. I agree we don't need world class cover at those positions but we still need players that can fill in competently when those players are injured. Dave is able to do so at right back although he is starting to look long in the tooth. Neither of our left back cover options are ideal.

Yeah but that isn't the reason we've been losing games. Compared to other squads, we have one of the best in the league. We made excellent signings the last two window. 

Lampard has no complaints if we fail to make top 4 and he is sacked. None.

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Just now, forbzy said:

We'll have to agree to disagree on Zouma, Christensen, and Rudiger. I agree we don't need world class cover at those positions but we still need players that can fill in competently when those players are injured. Dave is able to do so at right back although he is starting to look long in the tooth. Neither of our left back cover options are ideal.

Dave is one of the players most of you are deluded about. He's been finished ever since Conte's second season,but he's a nice guy so everyone here gives him a pass. Ivanovic for example lasted until he was 32 on that rb position. Azpilicueta's legs were gone by the time he was 28.

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I really don’t think we/Lampard can complain about the squad. Yes we’ve had injuries but we have a good squad with enough depth. 
 

The players are not performing- we’re getting nothing from Werner, Havertz, Pulsic - 3 of our main attacking players. I could go further but won’t. 

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