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*Officially sacked* but still Super Frank Lampard


Sack or Back ???  

112 members have voted

  1. 1. Sack or Back Frank ?

    • Sack now.
      33
    • Back until the end of the season, unless relegation dooms, then evaluate.
      79


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1 hour ago, abramovich said:

Why are we still talking about last season? Yes, Frank did better than expected but that was then, this is now. Should we ignore the fact that we spent more money on players before this season than any other club in Europe? Because this is just as much true as us losing Hazard and unable to buy anyone a year earlier.

What extenuating circumstances are having a big impact on this season? Injuries? Every team has them and some have it worse than us. Covid situation also affects everbody. Every manager of every team has to deal with these problems, they're not exclusive to Frank and Chelsea.

 

Why are we talking about last season in a discussion about franks points per game total compared to other Chelsea managers points per game total? Erm......

Covid didnt affect the rest of the managers on the Points per gmae list that was posted...thats the entire point of the bloody discussion.

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16 hours ago, Imran_CFC said:

Ole has been a Manager for a decade now and this is Lampard's third season & in addition the United position is an incredibly fortunate one because some of the decisions they have got in the first half of the season have been borderline pure corruption, games such as Brighton, WBA, West Ham & Aston Villa.

I've read a few of your posts stating a lack of identity in terms of style of play and its weird how the question never arose when we were on the unbeaten run but only once we were plagued with injuries which resulted in the downturn in results. The question should not be what is the style of play but the question should be why did Lampard not change the system once we had our key personnel out and the system was no longer functioning.

Lampard's system involves stretching teams using the fullbacks and have the wingers tuck in on both wings to exploit holes in the opposition defense, whilst we had Ziyech, James and Chilwell in full fitness it worked incredibly well offensively. The criticism of Lampard comes from persisting with the same system even without the 3 named players, Azpi does not have the legs to offer the same offensive threat as James and with Werner off color and Pulisic just returning from injury we struggled to offer an alternative threat from the Central areas. The noise on the forum has been to change things and go with a wingback system or go with 2 strikers but the challenge has been the congested period during which Lampard has been unable to change things around due to limited time on the training ground.

I am hoping with the recent break he could shake things up and develop other plans when the original tactics are not working but with new players it will take time for things to settle.     

The reason I couldn't comment earlier is explained easily enough as I wasn't a member due to lack of time (work) but if I had been, I would have still been concerned. The team did go on an unbeaten run but you cannot convince me that Chelsea were playing well or to a set style. It was always relying on individual flashes of skill and as I have said before with respect to United, they are currently higher because they have the better goal scorers particularly in midfield, not due to any inspired coaching. I do not want Lampard to lose his job but it sadly looks more and more likely unless the next three league games show a remarkable turnaround and top 4 remains likely rather than possible. The difference this time is that there are good managers around and any new manager will not be an interim one.  I would like him to look for further help to cover his deficiencies in tactical planning, to bring in a really experienced coach that doesn’t have the other abilities that Frank has so he could never compete for his job. He does offer a lot to his position but if anything brings him down, it will be this lack of experience. I am realistic to understand that if Chelsea had not had last year’s transfer ban, they would have sought a manager with more experience.

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5 minutes ago, pcmacca said:

The reason I couldn't comment earlier is explained easily enough as I wasn't a member due to lack of time (work) but if I had been, I would have still been concerned. The team did go on an unbeaten run but you cannot convince me that Chelsea were playing well or to a set style. It was always relying on individual flashes of skill and as I have said before with respect to United, they are currently higher because they have the better goal scorers particularly in midfield, not due to any inspired coaching. I do not want Lampard to lose his job but it sadly looks more and more likely unless the next three league games show a remarkable turnaround and top 4 remains likely rather than possible. The difference this time is that there are good managers around and any new manager will not be an interim one.  I would like him to look for further help to cover his deficiencies in tactical planning, to bring in a really experienced coach that doesn’t have the other abilities that Frank has so he could never compete for his job. He does offer a lot to his position but if anything brings him down, it will be this lack of experience. I am realistic to understand that if Chelsea had not had last year’s transfer ban, they would have sought a manager with more experience.

The point of the post was you stated Lampard does not have a established playing philosophy style and relied on individual brilliance but a number of posters and myself have stated he has a system in place especially when everyone is fit.

You also shared an article which in itself stated that due to the hectic nature of the current season playing styles and tactics have gone out of the window and football has regressed tactically. So you can't criticize Lampard for lack of tactics when the article you shared talks about the negation of tactics due to the impacts of the global pandemic which I guess refers to the fixture congestion and lack of time on the training ground. 

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23 minutes ago, dkw said:

Why are we talking about last season in a discussion about franks points per game total compared to other Chelsea managers points per game total? Erm......

Covid didnt affect the rest of the managers on the Points per gmae list that was posted...thats the entire point of the bloody discussion.

But the teams Frank and Chelsea faced this season have also been affected by Covid, unlike teams/managers our ex-managers from that list played against. 

Edited by abramovich
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2 hours ago, Imran_CFC said:

I would say the players have had it a lot easier then Frank amongst the Chelsea fans (Competitors have been pretty brutal on the signings), our fans have mainly been backing the players and blaming Frank for playing them in incorrect positions.

Both Werner and Havertz have probably been below average in terms of performances but the finger has been pointed at Frank for Playing Werner wide and Havertz as a number 8. For Werner he had no choice with our wingers injured and Werner has actually played a lot of his football as a Wide Forward and some may say that is his preferred position although he has not said that himself. With Havertz he has said on record that his preferred position is as the right sided Central Midfielder but once again Lampard has been criticized for playing him there. 

Let's not generalize because I have seen many saying that it's only Werner's fault for his bad performances, that he should simply be a winger for us out of nowhere and Havertz was pointed out as a bad player despite the fact that he also didn't have a pre-season, had covid and was used in multiple positions without having the proper time to settle, someone was even convinced that it was Havertz fault for selecting himself to play thus making Lampard to look bad or something and that Havertz hasn't shown absolutely anything so far despite all the evidence suggesting otherwise.

We can't have it both ways, some of the new players that are still adapting, adding that they didn't really play in their strongest positions would be a strong argument for not delivering this season so far just as Lampard has an argument in this particular circumstance, if we are to be patient with Lampard then it should come natural to be patient with our big signings as well, they are in the end of the day very connected to each other when it comes to our results...

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1 minute ago, Gol15 said:

Let's not generalize because I have seen many saying that it's only Werner's fault for his bad performances, that he should simply be a winger for us out of nowhere and Havertz was pointed out as a bad player despite the fact that he also didn't have a pre-season, had covid and was used in multiple positions without having the proper time to settle, someone was even convinced that it was Havertz fault for selecting himself to play thus making Lampard to look bad or something and that Havertz hasn't shown absolutely anything so far despite all the evidence suggesting otherwise.

We can't have it both ways, some of the new players that are still adapting, adding that they didn't really play in their strongest positions would be a strong argument for not delivering this season so far just as Lampard has an argument in this particular circumstance, if we are to be patient with Lampard then it should come natural to be patient with our big signings as well, they are in the end of the day very connected to each other when it comes to our results...

I understand where you are coming from but there is a distinction between Managers and Players, Managers are dispensable whereas with Players they are likely to be given a lot more time as they are seen as Investment and assets.

For example with Kepa his performances have been hugely underwhelming, that level of incompetence would not be accepted in any other role however because he is an investment he tends to get opportunities to maintain or enhance his value. If a Manager was to showcase the same level of incompetence he would be on his way in a very short period of time.

I am not too concerned about Kai and Werner as I think they will be given the time to settle in and we will probably see the best of them next season but with Lampard it's a more desperate situation because if he does not turn things around soon he may well be on his way out.  

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3 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

For example with Kepa his performances have been hugely underwhelming, that level of incompetence would not be accepted in any other role however because he is an investment he tends to get opportunities to maintain or enhance his value. If a Manager was to showcase the same level of incompetence he would be on his way in a very short period of time.  

Kepa wasn't really given chances though, he had an ok first season then collapsed in his second and was ruthlessly (and rightly) binned. Apart from Torres we have always been sharp in binning player's and letting managers go when it's not working, it's why we've won as much as we have in the Roman era.   

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48 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

I understand where you are coming from but there is a distinction between Managers and Players, Managers are dispensable whereas with Players they are likely to be given a lot more time as they are seen as Investment and assets.

For example with Kepa his performances have been hugely underwhelming, that level of incompetence would not be accepted in any other role however because he is an investment he tends to get opportunities to maintain or enhance his value. If a Manager was to showcase the same level of incompetence he would be on his way in a very short period of time.

I am not too concerned about Kai and Werner as I think they will be given the time to settle in and we will probably see the best of them next season but with Lampard it's a more desperate situation because if he does not turn things around soon he may well be on his way out.  

It's true that a manager's job is in general always more in doubt, the results must be there as a guarantee that he did a good job, otherwise the club might just find a new one.

A player may go in a slump or may even be out of the loop but he might still come back and even if we had cases where a player was out of the question pretty soon it's still a much different role, a player is responsible for himself and for his own role that is more narrow but a manager takes the responsibility for the whole squad and in that role he does have the power to decide if a player is dispensable too.

The manager depends on his players to get the job done so in the end of the day it's a very dependent relation there, the player must have the trust of the manager and he must show that the manager was right to trust in him, it's in the very best interest of the manager that he finds the proper players that will increase his chances to get the result that he wants and the player's whole point of playing is to do well and win, ideally speaking.

This is not much different from the old times in a sense, a king was the ruler of his people but he was dependent of his people to serve him, he was a king after all but it was in his interest that he protects his people that in turn provided for the food and all other things, so he would show by example that he would go to war in order to protect his people and so on, ideally speaking.

But my whole point is to illustrate that we should not only defend the manager but we should be behind our players as well. To continue further with this comparison, a knight has a lot of responsibility but not more than his own king, a player must do well but he is dependent on his manager to be used in the best possible way or in the way where he will have the most chances to put up a good performance.

So my point is that Lampard is much more connected to his players which in turn affects him much more than how it's perceived here. He made certain decisions for this season and he is hoping that his decisions will eventually put the team in the desired level and position. The 11 players that he selects is his best possible solution to win the game, he would want us to support those players. And make no mistake, we don't have a bad squad, we had a worse squad last season and we finished top 4 so by all means we should be building on that.

I don't really see a Liverpool fan or Man United fan ever doubting a new and maybe unproven player that Olle or Klopp sign, nobody is talking about how Firmino has been pretty poor and that Minamino isn't really that epic of a signing, their fans support their players while we constantly want to bash our own.

People don't realize that by doing that, they are actually bashing the very person they want to support, Frank Lampard.

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2 hours ago, Kev56 said:

I suspect if true which I don’t it’s the dailyfail, it’s a fail safe if they pull the trigger on Lampard Grant is already in place to be caretaker.

What this also shows am sure there has been conversations on who will replace Lampard if things doesn’t get better.

Edited by Brutos
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I highly rate Pulisic, but coming to think of it Ziyech might be the one who we missed very badly. It's what he does in the middle of the pitch and pocket areas that are so important. It's a shame he won't have James to play with there often, those two were very dangerous and complimented one another very well. 

I don't think it could hurt giving Gilmour a run also. 

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7 minutes ago, Brutos said:

I suspect if true which I do it’s the dailyfail it’s a fail safe if they pull the trigger on Lampard Grant is already in place to be caretaker.

What this also shows am sure there has been conversations on who will replace Lampard if things doesn’t get better.

I think this is to make sure we have an interim manager if things do not turn around. I wonder how Frank reads this. I could not imagine this is something he views as a positive. Also interesting how the players would look at it. All, of course if it is true.

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1 hour ago, dkw said:

It's the daily mail, anyone believing this is an idiot....

It's not just the daily fail though. anyone who dismisses everything to do with Chelsea is an idiot.:wink:

Edited by Kev56
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15 hours ago, dkw said:

All the other managers at the moment will be seeing their points per game drop because of the last few seasons also, Klopp`s Liverpool for example is about 14 points down on last season, so comparing his points per game against an old Liverpool manager will be unfavourable.

Did the other managers also lose their best player while also having to cope with integrating youth into a side due to having a transfer ban?

 

Lampard is making mistakes and needs called out for them, but if you truly believe there arent extenuating circumstances having a big impact on this season then I dont know what to say to you.

If you read my other comments I took those circumstances into account and I agree He has a tougher job because of the ban and rebuild  but what you said about Covid makes no sense to me. 
 

If one managers points are down others will go up unless everyone draws every game if one managers points are down those points will go to another team there’s set numbers of games and points.

The only way that can make any type of sense is if the points are more evenly distributed because no one can string together a consistent dominant run in the circumstances. 
 

looking at last season we know that not to be true with Liverpool and cities totals. Covid was around most of last season too. 

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16 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Yet this is exactly what has happen to Kante that will play any game if possible and let's be honest here, Mount has been playing all the time regardless of what role he had, he has been used in several positions.

True, holder is not kante natural role but he is a ball winner with excellent defensive skill, you can see how he can be successful playing as holder. 

Mount is an am or attacking mid. Moving him to double pivot position mean a complete change to his game. Does he have all the trait to become good dm? Maybe not. Especially if we still want to play two fb flying up high. 

 

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  • coco changed the title to *Officially sacked* but still Super Frank Lampard

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