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*Officially sacked* but still Super Frank Lampard


Sack or Back ???  

112 members have voted

  1. 1. Sack or Back Frank ?

    • Sack now.
      33
    • Back until the end of the season, unless relegation dooms, then evaluate.
      79


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2 hours ago, KonaKai Blue said:

As you typed this do you honestly believe it ?? You really think we should compare ourselves, aspirations and expectations to Tottenham? They are in a Cup final and are over the moon. I dont think any Chelsea fan is jealous of that as we aim much bigger. 

What's damming  though is you say they have 1 win in 6 games yet they are still 4 points clear of us. That tells you everything about the situation we are in.

Regardless of resources and club size Mourinho should be under more pressure to win simply because the way he works means he can only justify it by winning, and winning big.

For all Lampard's faults, he's built a hell of a squad even if he isn't making proper use of it himself. If/when we return to challenging for titles and CL's he'd have played a big part in getting us back there regardless of whether he's the one in the dugout for it.

Edited by Argo
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17 hours ago, Gol15 said:

It really looks like it will be the key point of the season.

If we lose against Leicester, Wolves and Spurs I think that it's very likely that Lampard won't be our manager next season regardless of how the season ends after this set of games.

I would be happy with Lampard if we win the FA Cup this year and finish top 5-6. But the board probably won't be. 

I agree about the league position, the board will make a change if that were to happen regardless of the FA Cup but I am worried that 5 or 6 may soon be unattainable. I watched Fulham last night and Chelsea will need to play well or at least show signs of really playing well or the rumours of replacement may get louder. Do you believe the board will allow the team to stumble along without an obvious playing style with two matches against the top team in La Liga coming up?

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16 hours ago, JM7 said:

We had a dip around Christmas time last season so I am hoping that Frank can reignite things again. Top 4 is looking increasingly difficult but a few wins will help. Tough run of games coming up as well. 
 

Frank HAS to get the forward players scoring and contributing again. We look weak up front. 

I am guessing most people have seen this article which tries to explain our (or lack of) playing style.

https://www.goal.com/en/news/happy-new-year-lampard-coaching-methods-stuck-in-2016/tumd7rgdk9fx1qq8kjbjec4s5

 

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4 minutes ago, pcmacca said:

I agree about the league position, the board will make a change if that were to happen regardless of the FA Cup but I am worried that 5 or 6 may soon be unattainable. I watched Fulham last night and Chelsea will need to play well or at least show signs of really playing well or the rumours of replacement may get louder. Do you believe the board will allow the team to stumble along without an obvious playing style with two matches against the top team in La Liga coming up?

That's a good question... I do believe that last season we stumbled upon one of the best teams in the last 10 years in Europe so the board didn't really expect us to have a real chance of threatening Bayern but this year they might just expect us to do a little bit better and not just to fall easily in the first knockout stage.

The thing is that we need someone good enough for the long term, Lampard could turn things around but if he doesn't I wonder what would our chances actually be to get someone that is a visionary like Nagelsmann or someone like that in the middle of the season. I find it hard to imagine that Leipzig wouldn't try to keep him, the one thing they can point out is that he lost Werner to us and still made it till the semi-finals of the CL. But even if it was possible for him to simply leave Leipzig basically out of nowhere, would the board be happy with such a manager that would once again play for the result where we would be far more focused on looking to counter-attack?

Clearly the board could just pull the trigger if we fail to win any big game that is coming before Atletico Madrid but would they know how to get the right man for the job?

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4 hours ago, Gol15 said:

It is true, but then again we weren't that much active in the previous transfer window part from securing the loan of Kovacic as a permanent signing and maybe earlier when we signed Pulisic before the transfer ban and then panic bought Kepa when Courtois left for Real Madrid. 

Man City spent over 150m this window and around 150m the window before and while they are much better than us, they are still not reaching their own desired levels either so when we think about how they didn't have so many negative factors as us it's all how you want to present it... They avoided a transfer ban, they didn't have 3 different managers in the last few years and their keeper didn't want to move but even so they are spending more than us and still can't do anything in Europe and they are still chasing Liverpool.

I imagine Pep will want to get Haaland once Aguero is done with them and nobody will raise any eyebrows no matter how much Pep keeps spending anyway.

My point was on why Jose wasn't criticized as much. City is whole another story but city is contender both in Europe and epl. I think it is safe to say we are not. 

 

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6 hours ago, JM7 said:

I think it’s safe to say that if we don’t start getting better results against the bigger teams, we won’t make top 4. We have 2 games against Spurs and Leicester coming up which we really need to win. 

Our last year big game performance was far better and It is clear why. 

Edited by Bob stark
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20 minutes ago, pcmacca said:

I am guessing most people have seen this article which tries to explain our (or lack of) playing style.

https://www.goal.com/en/news/happy-new-year-lampard-coaching-methods-stuck-in-2016/tumd7rgdk9fx1qq8kjbjec4s5

 

I haven't seen this article, it's interesting but not easy to read...

Pep: “We are a team that has to play in a certain rhythm, we can’t play when everything is up and down, up and down, up and down,” he said. “We have to play our rhythm, a thousand passes, passes, passes and at the right moment attack.”

How much did we lose when Sarri left? Both we and Sarri that is, on the longer term...

It's so daring to say that " the club have reached the inevitable ceiling of what can be achieved with an improvisational and individualistic tactical philosophy." But it's not that far from the truth IMO, most of the time we look for an individual responsibility to take place while Man City is making sure that the team provides for the goal.
It worked for us against smaller teams but we do lack the structure and we have managed to erase almost everything good from last season.

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41 minutes ago, Argo said:

Regardless of resources and club size Mourinho should be under more pressure to win simply because the way he works means he can only justify it by winning, and winning big.

 

Not sure that make sense, noone think spurs can win the league this season because it doesn't matter who the manager is player is far more important than the manager. 

Klopp didn't suddenly turn pool into monster team. It took him 3 years to assemble and patch pool into this current pool team. 

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3 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

I haven't seen this article, it's interesting but not easy to read...

Pep: “We are a team that has to play in a certain rhythm, we can’t play when everything is up and down, up and down, up and down,” he said. “We have to play our rhythm, a thousand passes, passes, passes and at the right moment attack.”

How much did we lose when Sarri left? Both we and Sarri that is, on the longer term...

It's so daring to say that " the club have reached the inevitable ceiling of what can be achieved with an improvisational and individualistic tactical philosophy." But it's not that far from the truth IMO, most of the time we look for an individual responsibility to take place while Man City is making sure that the team provides for the goal.
It worked for us against smaller teams but we do lack the structure and we have managed to erase almost everything good from last season.

Honestly against bigger team our problem is simple. Last year Willian was so important against big team, offer everything that we need. Protect his fb, press hard, defend properly, hold the ball high, keep the ball and ability to pick the ball deep and carry forward. 

By doing that, Pulisic could get away of not defend perfectly so he could focus on doing his damage in the final 3rd

This year, two games both against arsenal and city both times our winger didn't want to defend. You can get away doing that against poor team but not against better player. 

 

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9 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

My point was on why Jose wasn't criticized as much. City is whole another story but city is contender both in Europe and epl. I think it is safe to say we are not. 

 

We're really not but then again we have been rebuilding, City has been just spending casually most of the time and yet despite of all the spending Pep simply can't replicate what he had in Barcelona which gave him all the reputation, a squad that he simply inherited and not built. He may be a great manager but he got exposed more than us in the recent years, to be a contender with all that money spent is the absolute minimum for City.

Jose is now a bit out of the spotlight but Spurs didn't sack Poch because they thought that being in the top 4 was enough, they will get rid of Jose if he doesn't deliver for them. They just don't have so many dogs barking at them because they are simply a smaller club but make no mistake they wouldn't have let go of Poch if they didn't have big dreams about winning... They might not have spent as much money but for example they needed a new LB and they got the best option for the money, Reguilon was on our radar as well and I was actually advocating that he would be a good player for us, now he's a good player for them but we got Chilwell that comes with 20m extra due to him being from the PL.

All I'm saying is that the grass isn't greener on the other side, we spent more money for a reason, we simply had to take our chance at that moment. Lampard might not save this season but the squad improved, for the long term that is more valuable for us.

 

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10 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

Not sure that make sense, noone think spurs can win the league this season because it doesn't matter who the manager is player is far more important than the manager. 

Klopp didn't suddenly turn pool into monster team. It took him 3 years to assemble and patch pool into this current pool team. 

It does make sense, Jose is a manager who puts all his eggs in the basket of win now, so to justify doing that you have to actually win, if they don't have the team to win it (which they do on Kane and Son's form alone) then why have they appointed him? If Levy has genuinely appointed Mou for a 'project' after his (lack of) ability to sustain a tenure beyond two years was ruthlessly exposed for the world to see at Chelsea and United then he's the most stupidest man alive.

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48 minutes ago, pcmacca said:

I am guessing most people have seen this article which tries to explain our (or lack of) playing style.

https://www.goal.com/en/news/happy-new-year-lampard-coaching-methods-stuck-in-2016/tumd7rgdk9fx1qq8kjbjec4s5

 

Alex Keble is a Frank hater, every time Chelsea do well its because of the players and when things are not going well its because of Frank's tactics, can't have it both ways.

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11 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

Not sure that make sense, noone think spurs can win the league this season because it doesn't matter who the manager is player is far more important than the manager. 

Klopp didn't suddenly turn pool into monster team. It took him 3 years to assemble and patch pool into this current pool team. 

Dude, enough with that Klopp needed 3 years. Its just not true. Klopp came in october and they were in EL final and 7-th, second season 4th, third season final in CL and 4-th, third season CL and title race, fourth season PL. Klopp since day one had ideas and styles, Frank till now don't have it.

And one more thing, last season we were 4th, because other teams were weak and United came 3-th, Leicester drop points last games, If they had won, we went 5th. Its the same with Conte first season-title because others were weak.

This season and second with Conte are the same. Instead we be better, we are worse. I'm tired of that gap that we are since 2013. Thats why Hazard left, i would do the same

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Just now, Argo said:

It does make sense, Jose is a manager who puts all his eggs in the basket of win now, so to justify doing that you have to actually win, if they don't have the team to win it (which they do on Kane and Son's form alone) then why have they appointed him? If Levy has genuinely appointed Mou for a 'project' after his (lack of) ability to sustain a tenure beyond two years was ruthlessly exposed for the world to see at Chelsea and United then he's the most stupidest man alive.

I don't think it is a long term project but pochettino time with the team was over. With son and kane at their prime, they kinda need to win now but winning the league with this spurs team is very2 difficult unless suddenly he got 200 m warchest. There are clear flaws in this spurs team and that need to be fixed because in normal season, pool and city will probably finiah 90+ points.

it is funny that this season is arguably his best chances to win the league with spurs. 

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2 minutes ago, JustChelsea said:

Dude, enough with that Klopp needed 3 years. Its just not true. Klopp came in october and they were in EL final and 7-th, second season 4th, third season final in CL and 4-th, third season CL and title race, fourth season PL. Klopp since day one had ideas and styles, Frank till now don't have it.

And one more thing, last season we were 4th, because other teams were weak and United came 3-th, Leicester drop points last games, If they had won, we went 5th. Its the same with Conte first season-title because others were weak.

This season and second with Conte are the same. Instead we be better, we are worse. I'm tired of that gap that we are since 2013. Thats why Hazard left, i would do the same

I don't see this as a balanced view. When we win it's cause others are weak but when we lose it's cause we are simply bad so in no scenario are we good.

That's not giving the credit where it's due, it's not our fault that some teams lost their steam in the end of the previous season, we made sure that we were ready for the task. Conte came to the league and after he changed his tactics nobody could adapt to us, his tactics were later on adapted by several other PL teams.

Conte failed to replace Matic and Costa and we were simply a worse team in his second season, even so we won the FA Cup. Sarri then got us to top 3, that's without a proper striker and with Kepa.

So I don't buy this view that every time we had a good season it was due to other teams being bad, in that case Liverpool only managed to win the league once in 30 years due to other teams such as Man United, Man City and us being in a slump.

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1 minute ago, Bob stark said:

I don't think it is a long term project but pochettino time with the team was over. With son and kane at their prime, they kinda need to win now but winning the league with this spurs team is very2 difficult unless suddenly he got 200 m warchest. There are clear flaws in this spurs team and that need to be fixed because in normal season, pool and city will probably finiah 90+ points.

it is funny that this season is arguably his best chances to win the league with spurs. 

I do agree that Pochettino stagnated with that side but the point that you don't appoint Jose unless you feel you have a chance of winning big still stands. The fans are starting to realise one league cup isn't worth the deal with the devil and there's many manager's that could have kept Spurs afloat in top four while giving them a bit more fun in the process.

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16 hours ago, Brutos said:

I do think if he doesn’t make top 4 though he may well get that call from Marina

A lot of reports said Roman promised Frank 2 full seasons unless we were under threat of relegation. So I could see that call coming as I do not see Roman breaking his word to Frank if that was the case.

16 hours ago, dansubrosa said:

I don’t think Christine Bleakley will be happy about that!

Yeah all that extra time with Frank at home...lol

6 hours ago, ducavis said:

And so far this season he hasn’t shown he can win those games. 
I dread us picking 2pts from those games, and the positive spin on it in this forum.

And we may end up grateful for 2 points as I Spurs and Leicester with their low block counter attack football are a real weakness to us.

But agreed we need 6, we need to beat a couple of the "top" sides or it becomes more and more a problem like the blades run with no win.

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6 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

I don't see this as a balanced view. When we win it's cause others are weak but when we lose it's cause we are simply bad so in no scenario are we good.

That's not giving the credit where it's due, it's not our fault that some teams lost their steam in the end of the previous season, we made sure that we were ready for the task. Conte came to the league and after he changed his tactics nobody could adapt to us, his tactics were later on adapted by several other PL teams.

Conte failed to replace Matic and Costa and we were simply a worse team in his second season, even so we won the FA Cup. Sarri then got us to top 3, that's without a proper striker and with Kepa.

So I don't buy this view that every time we had a good season it was due to other teams being bad, in that case Liverpool only managed to win the league once in 30 years due to other teams such as Man United, Man City and us being in a slump.

Okay, what is balance for you then? I see that we are in same level for years. Did we accomplish something more than to jump from top 4 to 7-8th place last years? PSG slapped us, Bayern slapped us, who is next? Athetico? IN PL what we have done? My comparisons are very accurate, just look deeper.

Edited by JustChelsea
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7 minutes ago, JustChelsea said:

Dude, enough with that Klopp needed 3 years. Its just not true. Klopp came in october and they were in EL final and 7-th, second season 4th, third season final in CL and 4-th, third season CL and title race, fourth season PL. Klopp since day one had ideas and styles, Frank till now don't have it.

And one more thing, last season we were 4th, because other teams were weak and United came 3-th, Leicester drop points last games, If they had won, we went 5th. Its the same with Conte first season-title because others were weak.

This season and second with Conte are the same. Instead we be better, we are worse. I'm tired of that gap that we are since 2013. Thats why Hazard left, i would do the same

I am not talking about style, I am talking about the actual talent because he didn't get to spend big early so it does take time to assemble his team. I actually admire how Klopp built his team. It is clear and obvious how his team improve every season and how almost all of his big transfer feel the gap. 

First/2nd season : add talent in mane and wijanldum

3rd season - Constant goal getter is needed because Sturidge is made of glass, Salah done. Cb is clearly a need, VVD done. Even Keita made sense because they need to add technical ability although it turned out keita is not discipline enough and they don't need him. 

4rd: Henderson is not a dm so Fabinho is signed, it was impossible to keep Karius after that final

Done,monster team. 

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9 minutes ago, JustChelsea said:

Dude, enough with that Klopp needed 3 years. Its just not true. Klopp came in october and they were in EL final and 7-th, second season 4th, third season final in CL and 4-th, third season CL and title race, fourth season PL. Klopp since day one had ideas and styles, Frank till now don't have it.

And one more thing, last season we were 4th, because other teams were weak and United came 3-th, Leicester drop points last games, If they had won, we went 5th. Its the same with Conte first season-title because others were weak.

This season and second with Conte are the same. Instead we be better, we are worse. I'm tired of that gap that we are since 2013. Thats why Hazard left, i would do the same

In Klopp's first full season he had no European football and Liverpool exited the FA cup in the fourth round (However they did get to the semis of the League cup which consisted of 5 games)  therefore had a clear run at the Premier League with 1 game per week and finished 4th, in his 2nd full season he exited the FA cup and the EFL cup in 4th and 3rd round and focused on PL and Champions League.

The 2 seasons above helped him establish a playing style and gave him time to embed the players he needed into the squad, taking into account he already was a well established coach with a playing style and philosophy in place. So far in terms of results he has matched Klopp in finishing in the top 4 and reaching a cup final so I am not sure how you can criticize Lampard and bring in extenuating circumstances when even with Klopp you can question his method of being selective of which competition he will prioritize.  

Lampard has not had such luxury with European competitions, PL and reaching the FA cup final alongside a global pandemic which has created further fixture congestion, this has limited time with a completely new squad to really stamp his name and style on them.

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6 minutes ago, Argo said:

I do agree that Pochettino stagnated with that side but the point that you don't appoint Jose unless you feel you have a chance of winning big still stands. The fans are starting to realise one league cup isn't worth the deal with the devil and there's many manager's that could have kept Spurs afloat in top four while giving them a bit more fun in the process.

You are right Jose is a win now manager but he is not a bad manager, this season he made 3 signing (forget bale and Vinicius loan those are clearly to add number only signing). All 3 made sense, all 3 improved the team right away.

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1 minute ago, Bob stark said:

I am not talking about style, I am talking about the actual talent because he didn't get to spend big early so it does take time to assemble his team. I actually admire how Klopp built his team. It is clear and obvious how his team improve every season and how almost all of his big transfer feel the gap. 

First/2nd season : add talent in mane and wijanldum

3rd season - Constant goal getter is needed because Sturidge is made of glass, Salah done. Cb is clearly a need, VVD done. Even Keita made sense because they need to add technical ability although it turned out keita is not discipline enough and they don't need him. 

4rd: Henderson is not a dm so Fabinho is signed, it was impossible to keep Karius after that final

Done,monster team. 

It is about style and tactic. Even in first months Klopp has a clear direction what he wants and what he has to do. In Dortmund which players you knew before they were Champions? None, because Dortumd were in bankruptcy and they did spend hundreds of thousands not millions for players and free signs

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2 minutes ago, JustChelsea said:

Okay, what is balance for you then? I see that we are in same level for years. Did we accomplish something more than to jump from top 4 to 7-8th place last years? PSG slapped us, Bayern slapped us, who is next? Athetico? IN PL what we have done? My comparisons are very accurate, just look deeper.

We have finished top4, top3, top5, top1 and top10 in the last few years, with about 3-4 different managers.

This has been our rebuilding period, we have lost our best generation and we have been looking to new leaders and to build a new team, Man United had a similar period once their best generation got old, so did AC Milan, Inter and other teams as well, in fact most teams have a period like this once their key players get old and what not.

Like I said if you really think that we were only winning the league with Conte because other teams were bad, then by all means Liverpool only won the league in 30 years once Man United, Arsenal, Chelsea(us) got into a slump due to different reasons.

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3 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

In Klopp's first full season he had no European football and Liverpool exited the FA cup in the fourth round (However they did get to the semis of the League cup which consisted of 5 games)  therefore had a clear run at the Premier League with 1 game per week and finished 4th, in his 2nd full season he exited the FA cup and the EFL cup in 4th and 3rd round and focused on PL and Champions League.

The 2 seasons above helped him establish a playing style and gave him time to embed the players he needed into the squad, taking into account he already was a well established coach with a playing style and philosophy in place. So far in terms of results he has matched Klopp in finishing in the top 4 and reaching a cup final so I am not sure how you can criticize Lampard and bring in extenuating circumstances when even with Klopp you can question his method of being selective of which competition he will prioritize.  

Lampard has not had such luxury with European competitions, PL and reaching the FA cup final alongside a global pandemic which has created further fixture congestion, this has limited time with a completely new squad to really stamp his name and style on them.

Here global pandemic has nothing with our perfomance.

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Just now, JustChelsea said:

It is about style and tactic. Even in first months Klopp has a clear direction what he wants and what he has to do. In Dortmund which players you knew before they were Champions? None, because Dortumd were in bankruptcy and they did spend hundreds of thousands not millions for players and free signs

Tactic is important but player dictate tactic. Honestly not sure what you are implying here, because I don't disagree with you 

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  • coco changed the title to *Officially sacked* but still Super Frank Lampard

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