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*Officially sacked* but still Super Frank Lampard


Sack or Back ???  

113 members have voted

  1. 1. Sack or Back Frank ?

    • Sack now.
      34
    • Back until the end of the season, unless relegation dooms, then evaluate.
      79


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Iv'e been one Franks biggest advocates since he arrived, argued with plenty on here defending him, sang "we got super frankie lampard" in my car louder than any of you.

But if you go back and check my posts 2 years ago you'll see i was all for Sarri staying and when Franks name was banded about as a replacement by many on here, i hated the thought of it, i fell out with several on here over it, and this is why, i knew this would happen, he did well to last 18 months, but no i have to watch and listen to him being devoured.

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12 minutes ago, Brutos said:

Players don’t look happy or look like they communicate with each other 

That's what I'm noticing. A few years back they could make these passes knowing someone would be on the end of it. I saw Mount and Ziyech throwing their hands up cause no one was connecting to their balls. I think it comes down to Lamps not knowing what the best formation/lineup is and there being no consistence on the team sheet besides the back line.

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When players lose the ball, shrug their shoulder and stretch their arms out towards other players it tells me that they haven't got a bloody clue where their own team members are supposed to be, or our players didn't get into the position the player with the ball was expecting them to be; which means they either don't understand the formations and tactics, or Frank is finding it difficult to get his ideas across to the players.  As many have said, the midfield is a disaster, it's not balanced, disjointed and ragged throughout most of the game allowing the opposition to easily attack our defence through the chasms left wide open by not having a decent defensive midfielder; the midfield players are not that bad, all are internationals but the tactics are making them look bad as a unit. The forward line although very talented on paper, seem clueless when they hit the 18 yard box and piss around passing across the box and backwards into the midfield; no-one wants to shoot from outside 10 yards which is surprising given it was Franks forte.  

Apart from Silva and Chillwell the back four defensively are weak and while James may be decent at crossing the ball defensively he is a liability due to his inexperience and I would suggest lack of coaching. While Mendy started his career with us on a hot streak, we are now beginning to see some of his frailties over the last few games.  But all that being said it seems that an awful lot of our players have hit a brick wall all at the same time.  Pulisic has been tits now for a while running down blind alleys and losing the ball more times than not; Werner...well the less said the better, Havertz has really been slow to show why we paid 74 mill, Ziyech, injury and hot and cold form since his return, always hits the far post with his crosses but no-one there to put the ball in the net; many other players have been poor or warm and cold which certainly hasn't helped Frank's cause....does Roman allow the downward spiral continue, or cut the ties in an effort to save the season and a chance of a top 4. We are half way into the season, half way up the table, half way to a cup final..is the glass therefore half full or half empty...only the Board knows.  My guess is Frank will be here for the Luton game and likely the Wolves game, depending on those two results will seal his fate IMO. 

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13 hours ago, Imran_CFC said:

My guess is that you are referring to Kai & Werner when you state that the player profile we've signed is disjointed because all the other signings pretty much slot into a problem position.

I remember last season when we discussed the type of players we should be looking to bring in and majority of fans were talking about an attacking winger who can also compete for the Number 9 role and Werner fits that profile although some might say he is more of Central Striker then a winger. Werner can play as a Number 9 when required, he can play as the 2nd striker and he can fill in on the wing, the fact that his confidence is shot to pieces and he can barely hit a barn door is a different matter but from a player profile perspective he certainly plays a significant role in our squad.

Kai Havertz is a similar case because he offers us attacking threat from midfield, currently what we are missing from our midfield is any sort of creativity and when Kai finds his feet he can certainly bring that attacking threat from a number 8 role. Similar to Werner he is also versatile as he can operate as a Number 8, Number 10 or a false 9.

I don't think its the player profile that is the issue it's just the players need to time to settle and establish their roles in a functioning system.

I think my concern is not really position but what each player bring to the table how they fit into last year team. 

Werner is at his best in two st lineup, we have too many wingers to play that way. 

With ziyech and Havertz 

Last year our best lineup was

Puli - Giroud - Willian

Barkley - Mount 

On paper at least or if you ask most fans

Puli - Giroud - Ziyech 

Havertz - Mount

Looks so much better but my imo not really. Ziyech is a better creator than willian, not even close. But willian defense contribution and ability to keep the ball is also far superior to Ziyech. So you need to get more defensive contribution elsewhere otherwise you are screwed. Can we depend on Havertz for defensive contribution? Of course not. That is fine if we play a weak team where we can absolutely dominate them but once we play decent team we need more. That is pretty much the story of our team this season, we have struggle big time against good team. 

I haven't even talked about how utilize Havertz who is better of higher than deeper. 

Of course if you play

Mount - Havertz 

Kova

Vs Leicester, you are essentially mocking them. 

 

 

Edited by Bob stark
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We simply can't afford to let this go on.  I think that is 7 out of last 24 points, but the warning signs were there long before (this season and last).The chopping and changing of the team has done so much damage to results and confidence, and players haven't really owned their part.

Honestly though, the buck stops with Frank.  He has had more than a fair chance, and the last thing we want to see is Frank depart the club.  However, we continue to do the same things and expect different results.  This just isn't working anymore and time to move forward.  We're so far from even being acceptable, let alone good, that I am unsure if Frank is able to climb that mountain.  I don't think its lack of trying, but the difference with top class managers is something greater than perhaps what he has at this stage in his career. 

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3 minutes ago, PhilH930 said:

We simply can't afford to let this go on.  I think that is 7 out of last 24 points, but the warning signs were there long before (this season and last).The chopping and changing of the team has done so much damage to results and confidence, and players haven't really owned their part.

Honestly though, the buck stops with Frank.  He has had more than a fair chance, and the last thing we want to see is Frank depart the club.  However, we continue to do the same things and expect different results.  This just isn't working anymore and time to move forward.  We're so far from even being acceptable, let alone good, that I am unsure if Frank is able to climb that mountain.  I don't think its lack of trying, but the difference with top class managers is something greater than perhaps what he has at this stage in his career. 

I genuinely believe a top class manager will have us playing well pretty quickly, if not immediately. It's not lack of talent holding us back it's lack of structure and direction.

Earlier i compared our recent collapse to Scolari's one, similarly i believe a good appointment can be akin to Hiddink's impact once we let Big Phil go.

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I would still back Lampard but if he was to get sacked then I don't think even he would have any complaints. 

I'm also a bit fed of up our managers not lasting any longer than 2/3 years to be honest, a bit of stability would be nice for a change. 

 

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16 hours ago, mm24 said:

Easy.It's the one we haven't seen all season and not just because of injuries ,but because of Frank's reluctance to change the formation a bit .

Mendy

James Zouma Silva Chilwell

Kante Mount

Ziyech Havertz Pulisic

Werner

Before the season,when those buys were made I thought we're gonna set up like this and norhing really looks disjointed here.

Funny, on paper that lineup look amazing but it is difficult to implement. With the way Pulisic, ziyech and Havertz want to defend 4231 is almost out of the question unless we have two kante behind them and that is still a question mark because all 4 are turnover machine. 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, coco said:

Iv'e been one Franks biggest advocates since he arrived, argued with plenty on here defending him, sang "we got super frankie lampard" in my car louder than any of you.

But if you go back and check my posts 2 years ago you'll see i was all for Sarri staying and when Franks name was banded about as a replacement by many on here, i hated the thought of it, i fell out with several on here over it, and this is why, i knew this would happen, he did well to last 18 months, but no i have to watch and listen to him being devoured.

Yeah I am with you there. Is horrible seeing how many have turned on him. 

I have to believe that if he genuinely thought he was not able to do the job well enough he would resign. He bleeds blue if he did not think he could turn this around he would walk imo.

 

Until that happens or Roman decides to make a change I will continue to back Super Frank.

Edited by axman2526
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11 minutes ago, evissy said:

Just waiting to hear the news today. Really hoping it will not happen but I fear it will. 

I may be well off base here but I think a lot of this talk is due to unhappy Chelsea fans on social media and the media in general loving a good Chelsea manager which hunt.

I do not think, for the sake of this season, Roman will want to spoil his relationship with arguably the best player he has had in his time at the club.

Now I say that believing what I have read that Frank was promised 2 full seasons unless we were under threat of relegation.

If that is true then I think he gets it as Roman seems a man of his word.

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7 hours ago, The Brit said:

defended him for a long time, but a spade is a spade. that team isn't playing for him anymore. Only way chelsea get in top 4 is with someone else

There was a distinct lack of effort from a few, caught Mount seeming very frustrated with his teammates a few times.

 

7 hours ago, Slojo said:

Steve McClaren 

Thiago Silva player manager? Lol

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On 04/01/2021 at 07:53, coombsie said:

My two penneth is that Frank must be given time. The only thing that would change this opinion is if I could see that the players had really stopped playing for him. They do look bloody lethargic, jaded etc etc but there is no evidence that this is the case and no rumours of unrest in the dressing room. We must back Frank to turn it round, by giving him the job The Club accepted his lack of experience and need to "learn on the job"

I posted the above 2 weeks ago and Unfortunately, last night I think I began to witness the beginning of the players losing interest in playing for Frank. I exempt Mount, Pulisic and CHO from that, but the rest of the side looked as though they couldn't give a monkeys. Really poor and we seem to have completely lost our way. We all know what happens next 😥

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Was half expecting to turn on gadgets this morning and see the news that lamps is done. A Bloody hard situation and this will no doubt be hurting Frank as much as anyone. He is proper Chels - but I can't see a way out of this. 
 

I love Lampard. He is my fav player of all time, but he has not shown enough over the past 1.5 seasons to indicate to me that he has the skills or tactical nouse to turn things around. 
 

We got top 4 last year by creeping over the line, very fortunate having done our best to throw it away at multiple times.

 

This year, after positive early signs, we have clearly regressed.  Early on this season we were a team that  played brilliantly in spurts. We would be electric for 20-25 mins , and lamps would talk about needing to extend that. But instead, those electric periods have gone.

We have instead reverted to the slow, sideways, backwards passing, lack of ideas, lack of bottle to take the game by the scruff of the neck, and frankly a lack of character. 
 

That's not all on Lampard - but he has now had half a season to address those problems - and whilst I don't expect miracles overnight, I have not seen 1 single positive development to indicate that he has the answers.  Not 1.

There has been nothing he has done, that I can see with my layman's understanding of the game, which has benefited the team.

No tweaks to get the best of his players, no system changes, uninspiring or predictable subs, no change in the style or urgency,  no apparent instructions to stop playing slow/sideways/backwards -and be more progressive. 

So, in my mind, either Lampard wants us to play like this, and is therefore not trying to make changes (I doubt this), or, the players are simply ignoring him and his instructions -but lamps continues to pick them (I doubt this) or, in my mind the most likely,  he doesn't know how to change it. 
 

I am conflicted.l and don't know what I want.

in my heart, I think he needs to go.

but I don't want him to.

I think that an experienced number 2/ advisor would help, but expect that this would be akin to a vote of confidence, wouldn't go down well with lamps himself, and would be picked apart by the media. Also I am not sure there is someone sufficiently trusted by lamps that would take the job of "special advisor"....

sorry for the long post. Can't even remember what I wrote, so hope it isn't too much waffle!

 

KTBFFH 

 

 

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6 hours ago, coco said:

Iv'e been one Franks biggest advocates since he arrived, argued with plenty on here defending him, sang "we got super frankie lampard" in my car louder than any of you.

But if you go back and check my posts 2 years ago you'll see i was all for Sarri staying and when Franks name was banded about as a replacement by many on here, i hated the thought of it, i fell out with several on here over it, and this is why, i knew this would happen, he did well to last 18 months, but no i have to watch and listen to him being devoured.

I couldn't look past what could have been when Lampard was hired. The dream of him lifting trophies as our manager was outweighing any thoughts of him being a failure. Now that things have gone down hill, it really f**king sucks. This situation feels so bad that I kind of never want to see a club legend take on the job again. Seeing Lampard sacked really could drain away the rest of my passion for game, even if that decision turns out to be the best move for the club. 

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The players don’t seem to be playing for him. By that I mean doing the running and being intense. Whether that is because of lack of confidence, tiredness or lost faith in Lampard‘s coaching, they’re not responding and haven’t done for a while now. 
 

While I think Frank should be at least the season, it’s hard to see him continuing in this run of form. Things need to improve, quickly. 

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First of all, I'd like to say that I'd love for Frank to turn things around and for him to stay for years to come.

However.

Even Frank has admitted this season that if you don't get the results as a manager, then it's likely that you'll lose your job.

Quite 'frankly', I think this time has come.

The most frustrating thing that I have seen from our side is the bloody-mindedness of sticking to a 4-3-3 through thick and thin, without any consideration of the abilities of our players (mainly the newcomers).

Werner for instance, played his best games for Leipzig on a front 2 or as a number 10. 

Havertz performed best for Leverkusen as an attacking midfielder and, for a successful period, as the lone striker.

Pulisic has been played too wide and too deep. His best games have been played as the CAM, a position that gets him a starting position for his neat dribbles further up the field (and more likely to win dangerous free kicks or pens). 

The only 'wingers' we have are Ziyech and Hudson-odoi, with Chilwell and James doing good jobs as wing backs when needed. 

A 4-3-3 simply doesn't work with all of these players imo, so why are they so fixated on it?

My suggestion:

3-4-1-2, changing to a 4-4-1-1 in defence.

Havertz and Werner up top.

Pulisic as CAM.

Chilwell and Ziyech the wide players.

Mount and Kovacic in the middle.

Silva, Zouma, Azpi at the back - but Chilly filling in when the opposition have the ball.

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8 hours ago, Brutos said:

Simply because he’s Lampard I don’t think the club will do that to him unless they see money going down the drain with missing CL as that’s now essential due to lack of match day income. 

With the way things are going now, you really think the board is confident Frank can get us top 4?!

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41 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

I may be well off base here but I think a lot of this talk is due to unhappy Chelsea fans on social media and the media in general loving a good Chelsea manager which hunt.

I do not think, for the sake of this season, Roman will want to spoil his relationship with arguably the best player he has had in his time at the club.

Now I say that believing what I have read that Frank was promised 2 full seasons unless we were under threat of relegation.

If that is true then I think he gets it as Roman seems a man of his word.

Where did this talk about the promise of two full seasons come from? Frank never said that, Roman doesn't do interviews. In fact, if I remember correctly, when Lampard was asked about communication with the owner he said that he does it through Marina. So Roman won't have to spoil a relationship with Frank because there isn't one. I'm sure he respects his accomplishments as one of the best players in the club history and he may even like his personality, who knows. But that has nothing to do with the decision of hiring or possibly sacking him.

Frank was hired to do a job and currently he's failing at it. Regardless of what Chelsea fans feel about Lamps and his connection with the club the owner is going to do what he feels is the best move under the circumstances, and emotions don't come into it.

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If someone wants Frank to lose and get sacked you know that person isn't a fan of this club. I don't think any fan wants to see him go, we just know what Roman always does. We are the most successful side in the Prem since Roman came so why would you change that. That is the culture. 

It is like every player and staff member know this and they start waiting for the call. You can see most our players are like shadows of themselves. Waiting for the eventual thing to happen. 

If Roman wanted to break this cycle he would. Should he? Not so sure. 

We all know what happens when you sack the manager, we start to win and the season is once more kicked on. That has happened every time. Well almost every time. 

I don't think any player don't back Frank or like him to be their manager, they just know he might not be tomorrow. 

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I've defended Frank and been an advocate of continuity with our manager, and still am.

After last nights performance im starting to wonder whether the players buy into or understand the style of play he's trying to endorse.

Im not saying that i think he's lost the dressing room, i just dont think they know what he wants and the continued run of dismal performances does'nt look like ending any time soon.

Its strange that players of this quality can play so poorly as a group for so many games, normally some of the players would start to show a turn in form after a few poor games, but that does'nt seem apparent and its very worrying.

If this is the case, then there's only one option for the good of the club im afraid, but watching last nights game there were an awful lot of players not putting it in, Chillwell, James, Kovacic, Rudiger, Abraham all embarrassingly poor and the level of effort is simply unacceptable.

Players hiding from the ball, not making themselves available, not communicating with eachother, all aspects that us as supporters expect as standard, and aspects that really should'nt be the managers responsibility.

I dont doubt that Frank is to blame in some shape or form,my main concern is his inability to change tact, and that along with his inexperience is going to cost him, but he's certainly been let down by his players on more than one occasion in the past few weeks.

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  • coco changed the title to *Officially sacked* but still Super Frank Lampard
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