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*Officially sacked* but still Super Frank Lampard


Sack or Back ???  

113 members have voted

  1. 1. Sack or Back Frank ?

    • Sack now.
      34
    • Back until the end of the season, unless relegation dooms, then evaluate.
      79


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22 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

I don't think firing Lamp will solve our problem. IMO the problem is quite simple. We have made big splash on Werner and Havertz yet like I said before, we don't really need them because there is no natural way to integrate them into the team. So they are more of rotational player rather than key player for us. On the other hand, it is similar to last year we desperately need one more dm to help kante. If we sign rice instead of Werner or Havertz, I am pretty sure we will look like a better team.

 

 

Someone will get the benefit of these two players I’m just hoping it’s frank. In hindsight Werner was a no brainer he was scoring for fun, young, quick and could play in a number on positions. 
 

Firstly I think Havertz will turn out to be a good signing but I thought at the time he would be the hardest to fit into the system. 
 

We just signed too many players in the summer and with no pre season, congested fixture list and a global pandemic it was never going to be easy. 
 

 

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39 minutes ago, coco said:

We certainly have the resources and potential to build something glorious and lasting, but not the time.

 

29 minutes ago, wizardous said:

The second part of this post is something I can't agree with.

We literally sacked the manager who brought us our first Champions League when we were just four points off the top of the table.

 

We've had nearly two months in 15/16 level form, dived to midtable at the halfway point playing eye gouging football in the process and Frank is by the looks of it still getting every chance to turn things round (if the Leicester result was the final straw it would have happened by now). Also we persisted with Sarri after that 4-0 and 6-0 back to back away from home and he was going to get a second season but left on his own accord, so that's our last two managers that survived past their first season despite finishing 29 and 33 points off the top (and the latter overseeing our worst two legged defeat ever in CL).

If we were as much as around the top four places there wouldn't be any doubt whatsoever that Lampard was getting a 3rd season, and if he followed that up with a title challenge in season 3 all of a sudden we have a manager comfortably walking into a 4th so no I don't believe it will be that impossible a task.

Edited by Argo
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3 hours ago, cfcforeverfan said:

No experienced, world class manager would want to take this job when the best you could get is top 4 like Lampard did - which will probably means nth in their career as you wont put 'i lead a Chelsea team with no transfer window and no Hazard to top 4' in your CV and the worst you could get is like midtable and getting the sack in the end of the season. We are well known to sack our manager when things going south and no elite manager would want to take that risk when you have no transfer window to tinker the team

 

So the best a world class manager could do is equal Lampard, interesting.  Then get given £250m to spend, yeah no ones taking that job.   Who is this world class manager we're going to replace Frank with anyway, Rodgers, Nagelsmann, or Hasenhuttl?  I guess being Chelsea manager would be a blemish on their glittering C.V's.  And who were Chelseas top candidates for the job that then turned us down before we where left with Lampard?   Or did we not bother asking cause we knew we where such a sh*t option even Big Sam wouldn't have got out of bed for to answer the phone call.  You're making out like the only option after Frank was old Betty the tea lady.  If we wanted experience we could have got it, but we didn't so now we have to give inexperience a chance.

Edited by DarkMata
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2 minutes ago, DarkMata said:

So the best a world class manager could do is equal Lampard, interesting.  Then get given £250m to spend, yeah no ones taking that job.   Who is this world class manager we're going to replace Frank with anyway, Rodgers, Nagelsmann, or Hasenhuttl?  I guess being Chelsea manager would be a blemish on their glittering C.V's.  And who was Chelseas top candidates for the job that turned us down before we where left with Lampard?   Or did we not bother asking cause we knew we where such a sh*t option even Big Sam wouldn't have got out of bed for to answer the phone call.  You're making out like the only option after Frank was old Betty the tea lady.  If we wanted experience we could have got it, but we didn't so now we have to give inexperience a chance.

I would think that most people here want Frank to succeed but what we really want at the moment is a clear sign that he knows how to get the best out of the players he has. Again, I would think that most people here understand they have not seen that same sign in the last few weeks.

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1 hour ago, yorkleyblue said:

Dicky, you are arguing with a FIFA2020/XBox troll who knows everything there is to know because he read it on an internet.  Flogging a dead horse mate.

There you go Coco - I corrected your typo.  You're welcome.

 

(Oh, and my friends, notice the your and you're.  That is how each is used. You're all welcome)

Its the funniest thing I`ve seen on here for a while. Claims I need to look at context about Liverpool, but then argues against every single thing about context where we are concerned, pretty impressively stupid.

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Considering Lampard's cluelessness to implement Havertz and Werner I am starting to wonder if he really picked them out as transfer targets in the first place or if they were presented to him and he simply agreed due to them being "high-profile" players. 

Neither Werner nor Havertz fits into the traditional 4-3-3 Lampard is looking to implement. 

Chilwell, Silva and Mendy fit the system and have helped us tremendously. The jury is still out on Ziyech due to his injuries. 

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Just now, reparto corse said:

Considering Lampard's cluelessness to implement Havertz and Werner I am starting to wonder if he really picked them out as transfer targets in the first place or if they were presented to him and he simply agreed due to them being "high-profile" players. 

Neither Werner nor Havertz fits into the traditional 4-3-3 Lampard is looking to implement. 

Chilwell, Silva and Mendy fit the system and have helped us tremendously. The jury is still out on Ziyech due to his injuries. 

Sorry but I have to disagree about Chillwell. He started really well and has the highest percentage of successful passes in the team but that is because he is nowadays always taking the safer option of a square of a backwards pass. You used to see him playing it earlier to a player running into the left wing area but rarely now and not at all on Tuesday.

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48 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

I don't think firing Lamp will solve our problem. IMO the problem is quite simple. We have made big splash on Werner and Havertz yet like I said before, we don't really need them because there is no natural way to integrate them into the team. So they are more of rotational player rather than key player for us. On the other hand, it is similar to last year we desperately need one more dm to help kante. If we sign rice instead of Werner or Havertz, I am pretty sure we will look like a better team.

 

 

I agree we need another midfielder but I would say the key there is we need a player who can bully the opposition. Our current midfield options are too lightweight and easily overrun. We need an enforcer who can protect our creative players.

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2 minutes ago, pcmacca said:

I would think that most people here want Frank to succeed but what we really want at the moment is a clear sign that he knows how to get the best out of the players he has. Again, I would think that most people here understand they have not seen that same sign in the last few weeks.

I think people seem to be taking a short term view when questioning his tactics and his ability to influence games, if the focus is purely on this season then their certainly is a point because tactically he has seemed a little reactive. However I can understand considering he has a new squad and he has to stick with a particular system for them to adopt and integrate into a style of play, he adopted 4-3-3 which functioned well and allowed us to go on the unbeaten streak. Unfortunately things went array during the most congested period in the calendar and he was unable to change things up due to the fixture congestion. I have belief in Lampard that he can change things around especially now when we actually have a few days to prepare for games, yes Leicester was a poor performance but we saw signs of him trying to change things around.

The reason I state questioning his tactical ability based on this season is somewhat valid but if we take into account last season then that certainly is not the case. Lampard changed systems and tactics to influence games on a number of occasions last season, cases in point are both games against Spurs, Wolves away, Arsenal away & United in the FA Cup Semi. I think when he had limited resources he was able utilize them incredibly well but with a bloated squad and players still settling it is causing issues.

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3 minutes ago, pcmacca said:

Sorry but I have to disagree about Chillwell. He started really well and has the highest percentage of successful passes in the team but that is because he is nowadays always taking the safer option of a square of a backwards pass. You used to see him playing it earlier to a player running into the left wing area but rarely now and not at all on Tuesday.

I think Chilwell's recent poor form is more refelective of the overall malaise of the team. I am sure he will return to his best before long.

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8 minutes ago, reparto corse said:

Considering Lampard's cluelessness to implement Havertz and Werner I am starting to wonder if he really picked them out as transfer targets in the first place or if they were presented to him and he simply agreed due to them being "high-profile" players. 

Neither Werner nor Havertz fits into the traditional 4-3-3 Lampard is looking to implement. 

Chilwell, Silva and Mendy fit the system and have helped us tremendously. The jury is still out on Ziyech due to his injuries. 

Both Werner and Havertz were being scouted by Chelsea before Lampard was appointed, according to Matt Law if Chelsea did not have a transfer ban they would've gone after Havertz last summer window.

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15 minutes ago, reparto corse said:

Considering Lampard's cluelessness to implement Havertz and Werner I am starting to wonder if he really picked them out as transfer targets in the first place or if they were presented to him and he simply agreed due to them being "high-profile" players. 

Neither Werner nor Havertz fits into the traditional 4-3-3 Lampard is looking to implement. 

Chilwell, Silva and Mendy fit the system and have helped us tremendously. The jury is still out on Ziyech due to his injuries. 

Although i'm very happy with Silva's contribution and from a trivial POV i'm happy to see a football legend don our kit for a couple of season's i can't help but think we've missed out massively on Ruben Dias (admitedly i'm talking in hindsight), he's looked stupidly good at City.

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10 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

Both Werner and Havertz were being scouted by Chelsea before Lampard was appointed, according to Matt Law if Chelsea did not have a transfer ban they would've gone after Havertz last summer window.

This explains a lot actually. 

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1 hour ago, The Swan said:

The reality is that Frank over achieved last season and only lost out on 3rd place due to goal difference. Most pundits were predicting we would be lucky to finish in the top 10 so Frank deserves real praise.

It might sound counterintuitive but for me it was obvious that this season was going to be tricky due to the signings. Frank needs time and so do the players. Yes, it is frustrating, and things are not going well. But it is too early to push him out and next season was always what It was going to be about.

It’s great that Chelsea are on the TV so much but if you are listening to Sky or BT commentary (I’ll take Amazon any day or even the BBC) just forget it. They hype things up and create negative narratives when there is no need to. Coming up with meaningless stats to create stories when there is no story. I have to turn the volume off so just so I can think for myself. There is a negative hysteria at the moment regarding CFC and we all need to be patient.

It’s possible there are some divides on this forum. I started watching Chelsea in the early 80s and probably watched them more when they were poor than when they were good. I find that with longer standing fans or younger fans who are second or third generation fans there is a greater tolerance of the current situation. It’s not to say that these fans are not critical, they can be, it’s just that they appear less hysterical. Some of the more modern fans have a sense of ego which means that they personally feel slighted if Chelsea are not winning. It’s strange to explain, perhaps it’s what a plastic is but it feels more like a social media type of fan.

I am not suggesting for one moment that you are being hysterical but when you state that changes are needed for the next game etc. It’s obvious we won’t improve drastically overnight but I remain optimistic that things will get better, and we will clime back up the table. But I stand by what I believe, next season will need to be better and Frank knows and accepts this.

Our recent history has seen short-term decisions which to an extent have brought many trophies, but it would be good if a dynasty of some sort could be built. It took 10 years for the current Liverpool set up to reach its current dizzy heights, it took a couple of years to get it right at City. Go back in history to Fergie at Man Utd, he started poorly and using your approach should have been sacked. What a loss that would have been. We are rebuilding and the this set up needs time.

Yes, it’s a gamble being patient with Frank but that is what is needed. UTC.

I agree with every point you make and understand where you are coming from. 

Yes, it is quite possible that the frustration with most of the fans may come from the fact that the media tends to overhype certain clubs before the season and if things do not go as predicted from those "expert pundits", fans are drawn back into reality and start to complain or call for the axe. 

I will be very honest here and will tell you that I was not overhyping our squad after all of the signings and was not expecting any major trophy this season. I knew we were building a squad for the future and was expecting that we might be looking at silverware come next season. Even after we spent the 200 mill, I considered cementing Top 4 with an exciting style of play and a decent run in the CL as a success. Wining either of the Cartoon Network Cups was considered a bonus. 

I'll admit that we had a nice run of games, 17 undefeated if I remember correctly. But even during that run, we could see that we had some issues that needed to be addressed and when we started playing the better sides in the League, up until the game v Arsenal, where I think it all went to sh*t, we saw that we were nowhere near what was expected from us in the beginning of the season. Yes, the guys calling for a change, myself included, might be overreacting here because we became the laughing stock of the media, but isnt that the case with all of the fans in the world? I think its only natural, even you were a fan of Yeovil Town, you are expecting to see your team winning games in a convincing manner, especially when the team had a solid financial backing the summer before the season. So, yes, I agree it might a bit immature, over reacting or anyway you wish to call it, especially when we are always talking about a dynasty by letting one manager work his magic. However, those in favour of Frank staying, should also get our point of view as to why we want this change to happen sooner than later.

And no, I will not be quoting some bullsh*t articles and stats that is going around. I dont give a rats as* about a Top 4 finish if this was just a transition to greater times in the future. No, what I am looking for is signs from Frank that he has what it takes to get us out. I completely agree that a change will not come overnight or after 1 workout in the training grounds. It will happen gradually but Frank needs to start doing something different in the coming games so that he can show he has the ability to get over with this. 

We want to see something different from numerous pointless crosses in the box like we have a prime Jan Koller at the end of them who instead of Tammy or Giroud. We want a more direct and attacking football rather than those infinite passes in our area which lead to a slow build up and giving the opposition the chance to regroup and nullify us. We have Timo, CHO and Puli who are pacey and can punish the opposition as long as we decided to play to their strengths. We have a perfect example from the games against Leicester and the guys here noticed it. Kai and Timor were making runs forward and were looking for the ball but no one was bothering to pass it to them. We want back to the slow build up from our are and we already had 11 men defending and we were doomed. I can go on but I think you will get my point and is this something to blame the players or manager for? 

If we need a cold shower, as I said before, put the seniors on the bench and play with kids in the next PL fixture. And I do not mean having 2 or 3 players in the squad. I am referring to picking the entire U-19s squad and play them against Burnley. If that will make the players put in work and effort, I am totally fine with it. There is not a lot I am looking for, I just want to see signs that Frank is trying to turn things around and is looking for something different. But ever since our dip started, we have been seeing the same old with no desire for a change, no drive, the same team selection, etc. 

If he is able to turn this around and salvage this season, I will apologize to the entire forum again and then zip my hole into oblivion without speaking a word about Frank and his place as a manager. 

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Both havertz and Werner said they spoke to lampard before they joined. I think it’s cheap a excuse to blame the board if we act like lampard wasn’t involved in their signings.

Having said that it’s still early days in their Chelsea careers and still enough time to come good.

Edited by Frankie8Lampard
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3 minutes ago, Hensi said:

I agree with every point you make and understand where you are coming from. 

Yes, it is quite possible that the frustration with most of the fans may come from the fact that the media tends to overhype certain clubs before the season and if things do not go as predicted from those "expert pundits", fans are drawn back into reality and start to complain or call for the axe. 

I will be very honest here and will tell you that I was not overhyping our squad after all of the signings and was not expecting any major trophy this season. I knew we were building a squad for the future and was expecting that we might be looking at silverware come next season. Even after we spent the 200 mill, I considered cementing Top 4 with an exciting style of play and a decent run in the CL as a success. Wining either of the Cartoon Network Cups was considered a bonus. 

I'll admit that we had a nice run of games, 17 undefeated if I remember correctly. But even during that run, we could see that we had some issues that needed to be addressed and when we started playing the better sides in the League, up until the game v Arsenal, where I think it all went to sh*t, we saw that we were nowhere near what was expected from us in the beginning of the season. Yes, the guys calling for a change, myself included, might be overreacting here because we became the laughing stock of the media, but isnt that the case with all of the fans in the world? I think its only natural, even you were a fan of Yeovil Town, you are expecting to see your team winning games in a convincing manner, especially when the team had a solid financial backing the summer before the season. So, yes, I agree it might a bit immature, over reacting or anyway you wish to call it, especially when we are always talking about a dynasty by letting one manager work his magic. However, those in favour of Frank staying, should also get our point of view as to why we want this change to happen sooner than later.

And no, I will not be quoting some bullsh*t articles and stats that is going around. I dont give a rats as* about a Top 4 finish if this was just a transition to greater times in the future. No, what I am looking for is signs from Frank that he has what it takes to get us out. I completely agree that a change will not come overnight or after 1 workout in the training grounds. It will happen gradually but Frank needs to start doing something different in the coming games so that he can show he has the ability to get over with this. 

We want to see something different from numerous pointless crosses in the box like we have a prime Jan Koller at the end of them who instead of Tammy or Giroud. We want a more direct and attacking football rather than those infinite passes in our area which lead to a slow build up and giving the opposition the chance to regroup and nullify us. We have Timo, CHO and Puli who are pacey and can punish the opposition as long as we decided to play to their strengths. We have a perfect example from the games against Leicester and the guys here noticed it. Kai and Timor were making runs forward and were looking for the ball but no one was bothering to pass it to them. We want back to the slow build up from our are and we already had 11 men defending and we were doomed. I can go on but I think you will get my point and is this something to blame the players or manager for? 

If we need a cold shower, as I said before, put the seniors on the bench and play with kids in the next PL fixture. And I do not mean having 2 or 3 players in the squad. I am referring to picking the entire U-19s squad and play them against Burnley. If that will make the players put in work and effort, I am totally fine with it. There is not a lot I am looking for, I just want to see signs that Frank is trying to turn things around and is looking for something different. But ever since our dip started, we have been seeing the same old with no desire for a change, no drive, the same team selection, etc. 

If he is able to turn this around and salvage this season, I will apologize to the entire forum again and then zip my hole into oblivion without speaking a word about Frank and his place as a manager. 

Sorry but I agree with this too, I believe we do need to see that he can turn it around and stop playing what to be fair is a pretty rubbish style of football. If he doesn't know how, then I wish he would get someone in to help him before he is discarded.

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3 minutes ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

Both havertz and Werner said they spoke to lampard before they joined. I think it’s cheap a excuse to blame the board if we act like lampard wasn’t involved in their signings.

Having said that it’s still early days in their Chelsea careers and still enough time to come good.

Apparently Werner chose Chelsea over Liverpool due to Frank's persuasion.

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4 minutes ago, Hensi said:

 And no, I will not be quoting some bullsh*t articles and stats that is going around. I dont give a rats as* about a Top 4 finish if this was just a transition to greater times in the future. No, what I am looking for is signs from Frank that he has what it takes to get us out. I completely agree that a change will not come overnight or after 1 workout in the training grounds. It will happen gradually but Frank needs to start doing something different in the coming games so that he can show he has the ability to get over with this. . 

This x100 and it's literally all i'm asking for. If we lose to Wolves in the manor we lost vs Liverpool (both times) last season that alone will make me ease of the criticism because then i'll be able to look at it with some hope that he may have found a way to sort this. 

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2 hours ago, bisright1 said:

Nah. He would 100% jump ship. He would leave this week if we offered. He did the same at celtic. 

Hes not stupid. If he takes the job at chelsea, after what should be regarded as successful stints at leicester, celtic and liverpool, he will be cemented as a top tier manager. He could go to a sevilla or milan once us fans inevitably turn on him and he gets sacked in 2 years 😂

If leicester don't get top 4 and then they fall away, he could end up on the roundtable of managers who no one really trusts with the top job. 

 

To also reply to Argo. I think its different with a player, they will have more security at the club. If I was a Leicester player, I too would jump ship to Chelsea. As a manager, I would be reluctant, given this is a tough job and I could be sacked within the first few months if it starts badly.

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Some hypotheses

THE CLUB: Needs their manager to guide the team at least to CL places. Reasons: Financies, stature of the club, transfers. 

THE MANAGER: Needs a certain level of players to achieve the club goals. 

THE FANS: Need to see the team winning on a regular basis, want the team to beat the fiercest rivals, to play nice football. 

In this moment none of the objectives are met. If you look at my hypotheses every road leads to the manager. If it starts to look CL is out of reach Frank is fired....anyway these are hypothesis 

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1 hour ago, Belfast_blue5 said:

Someone will get the benefit of these two players I’m just hoping it’s frank. In hindsight Werner was a no brainer he was scoring for fun, young, quick and could play in a number on positions. 
 

Firstly I think Havertz will turn out to be a good signing but I thought at the time he would be the hardest to fit into the system. 
 

We just signed too many players in the summer and with no pre season, congested fixture list and a global pandemic it was never going to be easy. 
 

 

When we signed Werner, I expect him to backup puli and Tammy. Havertz was more potential buy.

So essentially what really change is willian <> Ziyech, if you ask most fans, they will say it is massive upgrade. Against weak team for sure, but against good team, it is not even close, I pick willian anyday of the week over Ziyech. 

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1 hour ago, forbzy said:

I agree we need another midfielder but I would say the key there is we need a player who can bully the opposition. Our current midfield options are too lightweight and easily overrun. We need an enforcer who can protect our creative players.

Agree our midfield need physicality, such a shame Bakayoko does not work for us. 

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42 minutes ago, Hensi said:

I agree with every point you make and understand where you are coming from. 

Yes, it is quite possible that the frustration with most of the fans may come from the fact that the media tends to overhype certain clubs before the season and if things do not go as predicted from those "expert pundits", fans are drawn back into reality and start to complain or call for the axe. 

I will be very honest here and will tell you that I was not overhyping our squad after all of the signings and was not expecting any major trophy this season. I knew we were building a squad for the future and was expecting that we might be looking at silverware come next season. Even after we spent the 200 mill, I considered cementing Top 4 with an exciting style of play and a decent run in the CL as a success. Wining either of the Cartoon Network Cups was considered a bonus. 

I'll admit that we had a nice run of games, 17 undefeated if I remember correctly. But even during that run, we could see that we had some issues that needed to be addressed and when we started playing the better sides in the League, up until the game v Arsenal, where I think it all went to sh*t, we saw that we were nowhere near what was expected from us in the beginning of the season. Yes, the guys calling for a change, myself included, might be overreacting here because we became the laughing stock of the media, but isnt that the case with all of the fans in the world? I think its only natural, even you were a fan of Yeovil Town, you are expecting to see your team winning games in a convincing manner, especially when the team had a solid financial backing the summer before the season. So, yes, I agree it might a bit immature, over reacting or anyway you wish to call it, especially when we are always talking about a dynasty by letting one manager work his magic. However, those in favour of Frank staying, should also get our point of view as to why we want this change to happen sooner than later.

And no, I will not be quoting some bullsh*t articles and stats that is going around. I dont give a rats as* about a Top 4 finish if this was just a transition to greater times in the future. No, what I am looking for is signs from Frank that he has what it takes to get us out. I completely agree that a change will not come overnight or after 1 workout in the training grounds. It will happen gradually but Frank needs to start doing something different in the coming games so that he can show he has the ability to get over with this. 

We want to see something different from numerous pointless crosses in the box like we have a prime Jan Koller at the end of them who instead of Tammy or Giroud. We want a more direct and attacking football rather than those infinite passes in our area which lead to a slow build up and giving the opposition the chance to regroup and nullify us. We have Timo, CHO and Puli who are pacey and can punish the opposition as long as we decided to play to their strengths. We have a perfect example from the games against Leicester and the guys here noticed it. Kai and Timor were making runs forward and were looking for the ball but no one was bothering to pass it to them. We want back to the slow build up from our are and we already had 11 men defending and we were doomed. I can go on but I think you will get my point and is this something to blame the players or manager for? 

If we need a cold shower, as I said before, put the seniors on the bench and play with kids in the next PL fixture. And I do not mean having 2 or 3 players in the squad. I am referring to picking the entire U-19s squad and play them against Burnley. If that will make the players put in work and effort, I am totally fine with it. There is not a lot I am looking for, I just want to see signs that Frank is trying to turn things around and is looking for something different. But ever since our dip started, we have been seeing the same old with no desire for a change, no drive, the same team selection, etc. 

If he is able to turn this around and salvage this season, I will apologize to the entire forum again and then zip my hole into oblivion without speaking a word about Frank and his place as a manager. 

Let's see how it goes mate, at the end of the day we all support the same team...the mighty CFC and no matter what, we support the best football club in the world. Even when we were crap we always had style about us.

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  • coco changed the title to *Officially sacked* but still Super Frank Lampard
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