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Super Frank Lampard *Officially our Manager*


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29 minutes ago, chi blue said:

Think we need to be careful on here, got a feeling the Sarri cult is rearing it's ugly head again with some of his followers on here. They seem oblivious to the fact of our injuries, losing the best player in the league and a transfer ban last summer, we are still fourth for f**k sake and only 5 points behind 3rd.  

I've got the same view on lampard as I did sarri. 

He needs 2-3 years. 

Sarri for me was one of the best managers in the world and needed time to implement his ideas. By the end of the season we were beginning to see how good we could be. 

Lampard is a junior manager and prone to making mistakes. But he has an excellent footballing brain and my hope is that he converts that.

He's lucky that he's managing Chelsea in the easiest season to qualify for the champions league in ten years. Lucky because I think the same fans who hounded sarri out would have turned on Frank if we had been sitting in 7th or 8th. 

"Sarri cultists" aren't going to turn on Frank because the one thing they all have in common is patience. 

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Think we need to be careful on here, got a feeling the Sarri cult is rearing it's ugly head again with some of his followers on here. They seem oblivious to the fact of our injuries, losing the best player in the league and a transfer ban last summer, we are still fourth for f**k sake and only 5 points behind 3rd.  
Still I think we should aim for better than looking at stumbling Manu, Tottenham, Arsenal. We should aim higher. I don't think Frank is satisfied with these achievements but we all know he's done well and he's brought a new style of playing in and we are just short of quality.
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Look at Klopp in his first season, he struggled with his style as he didn't have the right players. Liverpool went on to finish 8th (P38, W16, D12, L10, +13 GD).

Lampard is currently P28, W13, D6, L9, +8 GD. Klopp didn't have the same problems as Lampard either ie injuries, transfer ban etc

Edited by Malcolm9
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I know Jody Morris has had a lot to do with the youngsters coming through over recent years, but i can't help wondering if someone like Steve Holland would of been a better assistant for Frank, no offence to Jody but he hasn't got the experience at assisting at the top level that Holland has.

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3 hours ago, Malcolm9 said:

Look at Klopp in his first season, he struggled with his style as he didn't have the right players. Liverpool went on to finish 8th (P38, W16, D12, L10, +13 GD).

Lampard is currently P28, W13, D6, L9, +8 GD. Klopp didn't have the same problems as Lampard either ie injuries, transfer ban etc

Why would you compare Klopp to Lampard?A lot of you don't seem to understand that Klopp was an established manager who won league titles and got to one CL final before joining Liverpool.It was way easier for Liverpool board to be patient.

Frank on the other hand is inexperienced as it gets.He probably wouldn't even get the job if it weren't for transfer ban.For me he's doing an okay job for now.Could've been better,could've been worse.I'm mostly dissapointed with the way we defend set pieces and with the way we defend when we lose the ball.We've got a lot of the same problems that Lampard's Derby had last year and that is a bit worrying,seeing that Frank still hasn't figured out how to improve on that part.After all I'm seeing people say that he is a quick learner and stuff.For me also he's not doing himself any favours by keeping Jody Morris as his assistant.They are way too similar in some of their views.He should try and get some with more understanding of defensive game.Someone who could help him to sort the mess at the back.We don't have wc defenders but if you look at  the table even some teams like Arsenal with their horrendous defence conceded fewer goals than us.Defence should be better even with this personnel.

 

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The transfer ban is thrown in too easily. It is there but we have quality in the team as supposed to Sheffield and probably even Leicester. Most teams would cream their pants to he idea of having Kepa, Rudiger, Kante, Kovacic, Pulisic, Willian, Azpilicueta for example in their squad.

If Conte took the job instead of Frank we'd be on much more points at this stage. He'd play the team from defense and be much more play it safe.

This is not criticism on Frank. I love the fact he wants us to create as much as possible. He is very brave in what he is doing and I trust this is the way to go forward as a club. He gets his first window in the summer to really get the players he want.

For me personally it has been both tough and positive to see us play. The good patch made me hate the bad patch much more as I have seen what we can do and now we just can't deliver...

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26 minutes ago, mm24 said:

Why would you compare Klopp to Lampard?A lot of you don't seem to understand that Klopp was an established manager who won league titles and got to one CL final before joining Liverpool.It was way easier for Liverpool board to be patient.

Then what did the Dortmund board have to go on when Klopp struggled initially? What did Liverpool have to go on when Brendan struggled initially? What did Spurs have to go on when Pochettino struggled intially? 

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25 minutes ago, mm24 said:

Why would you compare Klopp to Lampard?A lot of you don't seem to understand that Klopp was an established manager who won league titles and got to one CL final before joining Liverpool.It was way easier for Liverpool board to be patient.

Frank on the other hand is inexperienced as it gets.He probably wouldn't even get the job if it weren't for transfer ban.For me he's doing an okay job for now.Could've been better,could've been worse.I'm mostly dissapointed with the way we defend set pieces and with the way we defend when we lose the ball.We've got a lot of the same problems that Lampard's Derby had last year and that is a bit worrying,seeing that Frank still hasn't figured out how to improve on that part.After all I'm seeing people say that he is a quick learner and stuff.For me also he's not doing himself any favours by keeping Jody Morris as his assistant.They are way too similar in some of their views.He should try and get some with more understanding of defensive game.Someone who could help him to sort the mess at the back.We don't have wc defenders but if you look at  the table even some teams like Arsenal with their horrendous defence conceded fewer goals than us.Defence should be better even with this personnel.

 

Malcolm9 is sticking up for Frank by the sounds of it, he's pointing out he isn't doing too bad.

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13 minutes ago, Argo said:

Then what did the Dortmund board have to go on when Klopp struggled initially? What did Liverpool have to go on when Brendan struggled initially? What did Spurs have to go on when Pochettino struggled intially? 

Easy.It was clear that he took that Dortmund team as high as they could go.They started selling their best players and couldn't cope financially with Bayern.Brendan was pretty much the same.He got them to second,they sold Suarez and they had a sh*t next season.They didn't trust him to continue after that which is understandable considering they obviously had the option to bring in Klopp.Do you think that we would keep Lampard if we get the option to sign Guardiola in the summer lol For Spurs,you can say the same thing.Poch took them as high as he could.Obviously he could've done better this season if they had spent half a billion in the summer.

I'm still behind Frank as I think that he should be judged after next season at earliest.But for me, the worrying signs are here.I expected us to be bad at the beginning of the season and to continuously get better throughout it.We've had sort of an opposite situation.We started good and then we got worse and worse and we've gotten to the point where we can't say with certainty that we're gonna beat anyone.We even lost a bit of that identity from the start of the season which was good to see then even when we were losing some games.Hopefully this is down to having some players injured .

Edited by mm24
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19 minutes ago, evissy said:

The transfer ban is thrown in too easily. It is there but we have quality in the team as supposed to Sheffield and probably even Leicester. Most teams would cream their pants to he idea of having Kepa, Rudiger, Kante, Kovacic, Pulisic, Willian, Azpilicueta for example in their squad.

If Conte took the job instead of Frank we'd be on much more points at this stage. He'd play the team from defense and be much more play it safe.
 

I'm not sure about this;
Nobody actually rates Rudiger and Willian that much.
Kepa has been shaky
Kovacic is having the season of his life but that's being just a decent squad player, Real Madrid sold him to us like we sold Matic to Manutd, they didn't care.
Pulisic has been injury prone and Dortmund didn't care about losing him at all, even some came here and said pretty much good riddance if I remember correctly.
Azpilicueta is nice but a bit older now, sure some teams lower than us would love to have him but that's not saying much.

The only player that actually fits in this is Kante...That's 1 player. You can find in most top teams 1 player that other teams would like to have.

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10 minutes ago, mm24 said:

Easy.It was clear that he took that Dortmund team as high as they could go.They started selling their best players and couldn't cope financially with Bayern.Brendan was pretty much the same.He got them to second,they sold Suarez and they had a sh*t next season.

I'm talking about Klopp at Dortmund initially before his success. He had no CV relitive to the top level for the Dortmund board to look for suggestions he may be a success.

Likewise with Brendan I was talking the first season. Liverpool had their worst start results wise for decades and Rodgers had no prior CV to look back on, but they saw the odd snippets of potential and stuck with him.

12 minutes ago, mm24 said:

I'm still behind Frank as I think that he should be judged after next season at earliest.But for me, the worrying signs are here.I expected us to be bad at the beginning of the season and to continuously get better throughout it.We've had sort of an opposite situation.

Team development isn't linear, until we get to where we want to be we will have to take this on the chin.

Infact in the grande scheme of things whether Lampard becomes good enough or not is irrelevant, given what we've lost in the last few years and our financially handicap compared to City, it will require a lot of time and patience to get back to challenging again even if we cloned Fergie.

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12 minutes ago, Argo said:

I'm talking about Klopp at Dortmund initially before his success. He had no CV relitive to the top level for the Dortmund board to look for suggestions he may be a success.

Likewise with Brendan I was talking the first season. Liverpool had their worst start results wise for decades and Rodgers had no prior CV to look back on, but they saw the odd snippets of potential and stuck with him.

Team development isn't linear, until we get to where we want to be we will have to take this on the chin.

Infact in the grande scheme of things whether Lampard becomes good enough or not is irrelevant, given what we've lost in the last few years and our financially handicap compared to City, it will require a lot of time and patience to get back to challenging again even if we cloned Fergie.

Dortmund were a bottom half team for years when Klopp took over .For example,they finished 13th in 07-08,Klopp took over next year and they finished sixth.Year after that they finished fifth and the year after that they were crowned champions.That's the progress you should see from a manager and from the team if you want someone to believe in you.

With Brendan it's the same.He improved Liverpool in his first season.They've gotten something like 10 point more than in their previous season and they played much better football.Obiously if you have any sort of improvement you should trust the manager and stick with him.Liverpool did and they finished second next year.Year after that they struggled again and the manager paid the price which is understandable.

Edited by mm24
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You guys live in a fantasy world if you thing Frank is getting 4,5 seasons without a major improvement here.He will get away with it if we don't get in the CL this season considering the ban and all that,but if we don't get in the CL the year after that he will be gone.Simple as that.

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49 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

I'm not sure about this;
Nobody actually rates Rudiger and Willian that much.
Kepa has been shaky
Kovacic is having the season of his life but that's being just a decent squad player, Real Madrid sold him to us like we sold Matic to Manutd, they didn't care.
Pulisic has been injury prone and Dortmund didn't care about losing him at all, even some came here and said pretty much good riddance if I remember correctly.
Azpilicueta is nice but a bit older now, sure some teams lower than us would love to have him but that's not saying much.

The only player that actually fits in this is Kante...That's 1 player. You can find in most top teams 1 player that other teams would like to have.

Come on, that's incredibly over the top negativity, every single player named would get into every other prem team other  city and Liverpool. Some of you seem so desperate to talk down everything about this club. 

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51 minutes ago, mm24 said:

You guys live in a fantasy world if you thing Frank is getting 4,5 seasons without a major improvement here.

I don't think anyone has suggested that will happen, or even that they want that for that matter.

Its been widely agreed that year by year improvement/evolvement is a must.

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1 hour ago, evissy said:


If Conte took the job instead of Frank we'd be on much more points at this stage. He'd play the team from defense and be much more play it safe.
 

Probably......... but we probably also see a lot more of:

Giroud and Bats, and less Abraham

Alonso & Emerson, and less James

Willian/Perdo/barkley, and less Mount

probably have kept Luiz, and seen Tomori on loan etc.

 

My question is, while I admit some world class managers would have more points than Frank has earned thus far(assuming you could even have got these managers in the summer), who here thinks any other manager would have us top 4 in March, still one foot in the CL, still in the FA cup..........and have made 4 (likely 5 if CHO wasn't so injury ravaged) academy products first team regulars?

 

Surpassed expectations on the table, and with the senior squad roster IMO.

 

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19 minutes ago, Barry Bridges said:

 

Probably......... but we probably also see a lot more of:

Giroud and Bats, and less Abraham

Alonso & Emerson, and less James

Willian/Perdo/barkley, and less Mount

probably have kept Luiz, and seen Tomori on loan etc.

This is the key point. I haven't seen anything much this season that convinces me he is a great tactician, but he has broken the cycle and actually used our academy.

Mount, James, Tammy, Tomori and CHO are all on target to play well over 1500 minutes this year. That is huge for us as a club and has the potential to totally change the way we recruit/build our squads as Frank has shown it is possible to compete while developing players. He deserves enormous credit for that. For me that makes this season a success regardless.

Edited by Spiller86
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Just an example. Conte is a good reference point as his philosophy of football differs from Frank's. I love the fact we have someone like Frank who is very bold in his approach.

Frank builds the future and Conte would basically manage us a season or two as we have seen so many times with our managers.

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2 hours ago, evissy said:

The transfer ban is thrown in too easily. It is there but we have quality in the team as supposed to Sheffield and probably even Leicester. Most teams would cream their pants to he idea of having Kepa, Rudiger, Kante, Kovacic, Pulisic, Willian, Azpilicueta for example in their squad.

If Conte took the job instead of Frank we'd be on much more points at this stage. He'd play the team from defense and be much more play it safe.

This is not criticism on Frank. I love the fact he wants us to create as much as possible. He is very brave in what he is doing and I trust this is the way to go forward as a club. He gets his first window in the summer to really get the players he want.

For me personally it has been both tough and positive to see us play. The good patch made me hate the bad patch much more as I have seen what we can do and now we just can't deliver...

Not sure any top would cream their pants over Kepa (2 Bob keeper) Rudiger (top defender when out injured, now fit he's proving a mid table defender), Kante ( injury prone and on the downward curve) Dave ( was good not now) Willian (enough said) Kova (yes proving top class), Pulisic (unproven yet), can't say the Liverpool's or Cities of this world would be chasing this lot

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5 minutes ago, evissy said:

Just an example. Conte is a good reference point as his philosophy of football differs from Frank's. I love the fact we have someone like Frank who is very bold in his approach.

Frank builds the future and Conte would basically manage us a season or two as we have seen so many times with our managers.

Exactly, we had Conte for another season and look how that turned out. There's something about your Conte and Jose type tactics that burn out players physically and or mentally. Not to say Lamps will be better in every department but he is different and we need different to build for the long term future.

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Frank tries to play a type of football that pleases players. The big job is to make it successful as well. Frank is the first person to say winning is important.

There is a certain feel of freedom to express, there is the front foot approach, there is the idea of creating more chances than your opponent, there is the idea to hold onto the ball, there is the feel of risk of getting caught but instead of hiding you stay optimistic and try again, there is the idea of making football match interesting to the crowd with maximum action.

Liverpool master the style pretty much bang on albeit being a bit different. City's football is similar but I feel Pep is much more of a despot type than Frank will ever be.

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2 hours ago, Argo said:

I don't think anyone has suggested that will happen, or even that they want that for that matter.

Its been widely agreed that year by year improvement/evolvement is a must.

Well,most of you guys kinda did by saying all these "he's overachieving stuff".Fact is,we're playing a very,very bad season.It's not like we're in CL spot because we're playing good.For god's sake ,we got something like 50% of all our PL wins in the month of October .If you take that month out of the equation,we're averaging one win per month lol .We're in fourth just because teams around us are somehow managing not to feast on our terrible form.Honestly,if he wants to succed here we must be true to him and he must be true to himself.People on here are acting like some sort of criticism will hurt Frank's feelings and then he'll feel bad lol

I won't be happy if we somehow manage to scrap CL football with this kind form until the end of the season.That will only fuel these "he's overachieving " guys and by the end of the season people will forget everything just as they did with Sarri and now you have some Sarri romantics on here because of that.I want us to secure CL spot by showing some kind of form.We have 10 games to go and some very winnable games.I want to see Frank learning from the first time he played some of those teams and I want us to show some real progress as a result of hard work these last few months.Only then I'll be happy if we manage to get that fourth spot and only then I'll be optimistic for next season and the season after that.

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Call me a moron or naive but I don't see the evidence that Conte or Sarri would've done better with the current squads. Maybe at the moment they would've done, but I don't think they could've engineered the momentum and enthusiasm that won us the points before December with that young side, that's really what got us into this position, everything since then has been pretty poor and questions have to be asked of course. Sarri couldn't wait to leave, why do people think he would've done well this season? 

To be honest, I can understand why people are saying we're fortunate to an extent, I mean I'm looking at our wins/loss this season and I'm baffled how a team like that is still comfortably in top 4, we have almost as many losses as wins, that's insane. The past 3 months have been pretty shocking but we've also been really unfortunate with injuries. Still, context is important and this season is something else, a really strange one. 

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12 minutes ago, mm24 said:

Well,most of you guys kinda did by saying all these "he's overachieving stuff".Fact is,we're playing a very,very bad season.It's not like we're in CL spot because we're playing good.For god's sake ,we got something like 50% of all our PL wins in the month of October .If you take that month out of the equation,we're averaging one win per month lol .We're in fourth just because teams around us are somehow managing not to feast on our terrible form.Honestly,if he wants to succed here we must be true to him and he must be true to himself.People on here are acting like some sort of criticism will hurt Frank's feelings and then he'll feel bad lol

I won't be happy if we somehow manage to scrap CL football with this kind form until the end of the season.That will only fuel these "he's overachieving " guys and by the end of the season people will forget everything just as they did with Sarri and now you have some Sarri romantics on here because of that.I want us to secure CL spot by showing some kind of form.We have 10 games to go and some very winnable games.I want to see Frank learning from the first time he played some of those teams and I want us to show some real progress as a result of hard work these last few months.Only then I'll be happy if we manage to get that fourth spot and only then I'll be optimistic for next season and the season after that.

Wind it back to August a majority of people were saying we are finishing 10th, even all the top pundits were saying our top 6 contention is doubtful, so for us to be 4th place by March is definitely overachieving. We've been riddled with injuries and we've had to give inexperienced youth players with Championship experience a go at it and they've done really well. You can't deny Frank has overachieved, perspective is very important here, think bigger than just "well it's bad by Chelsea standards" the standards have clearly changed. Did you really expect us to be top 4 before the season kicked off? Answer honestly. 

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