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Super Frank Lampard *Officially our Manager*

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28 minutes ago, Brutos said:


Adjust to the situation pep and kloop didn't have a transfer ban and most players injured no one is saying stop playing the way he wants I am saying adjust until we have a full strength squad pick up valuable points this is a results points business

Sorry after only losing to the best team in Europe 2-1, what kneejerk response are you trying to have happen?

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2 hours ago, Argo said:

I disagree.

 

I think you'll find that's against the forum rules.

 

I hope you're right. Let's reconvene in a couple of months. 

 

In the meantime, start preparing those questions.

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3 hours ago, Argo said:

No doubt for me we keep on going with the system regardless of short term hits.

The title isn't happening this season, it's one thing taking the here and now approach when there's a real chance of a major trophy (like in 2015) but just to get top four? f**k that.

Yeap just keep riding this wave and soon enough we can end up having the best team in Europe. We are not playing bad, the results will come, just some more time and experience needed. Also Frankie is getting a full season no matter what and then we are back in the market, I got a feeling Roman has a sweet tooth for some new players.

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4 hours ago, Argo said:

Top 6 however should be minimum requirement, regardless of what stage of the process we have some the best young talent in the world coming into a squad of multiple trophy winners, anything below 7th then questions have to be asked.

 

I'll expand a little on my thought processes.

 

Those multiple trophy winners have relied on Hazard from an attacking point of view. Even with a top 3 player in the world, and the best player in the Prem, we struggled in the league last couple of years, and that player got most of our goals and our assists, and that was with experienced managers.

 

Now sure, best young talent, I'd agree with you there, but the PL is a huge step up, and crucially, Frank is up against managers who have way better credentials than him. Norwich, Sheffield Utd and Villa all got promoted last term, so their managers have way better credentials. Sean Dyche, Eddie Howe, Brendan Rodgers, Pellegrini, Roy Hodgson etc etc. These guys are no mugs. Their sides aren't going to hand us the points on a plate. Crucially, they're all very experienced, and that's before we talk about the likes of Pep and Klopp. We've already seen in our home games against Valencia, Sheffield Utd and Leicester that our manager is very green. Not a criticism of him, just the way it is. 

 

This is a completely different level with far more scrutiny. Pressure can build. Even after the Liverpool game, in both his post-match interviews and his post-match press conference, Frank was talking very fast, far faster than usual, far faster than I've ever seen him talk. Watch them and see. That's stress. He knows he needs the points. All the talk in the world doesn't make up for points. You need to keep the vultures at bay, and if you're not winning, a manager's job is very stressful. Can Frank cope with that? We have no idea. Does he have leaders and characters in the dressing room to draw on if things get tough? That's another issue also. If pressure builds, we can't be relying on youngsters to show leadership. They're going to need to lean on a few old heads.

 

I'm delighted Frank's back. I'm  delighted he's playing youngsters. Top four is a pipe dream in my opinion. We've struggled in the league with Conte and Mourinho, and they were proven winners, and we had Hazard. Spurs and Arsenal may have problems, but their managers are proven, and crucially, they have PL experience. I'd be delighted if I'm wrong but I can't see it. Right now we're 11th. If we finish up there I'll be happy. 

 

Top 4 and Frank will deserve MOTY in my opinion.

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1 hour ago, Davey Baby said:

I'm delighted Frank's back. I'm  delighted he's playing youngsters. Top four is a pipe dream in my opinion. We've struggled in the league with Conte and Mourinho, and they were proven winners, and we had Hazard. Spurs and Arsenal may have problems, but their managers are proven, and crucially, they have PL experience. I'd be delighted if I'm wrong but I can't see it. Right now we're 11th. If we finish up there I'll be happy. 

 

You have made fair points only time will tell and I think our next sequence of matches will give us some indication as to whether we can achieve top 4 or whether will be mid table or worse.

I think we will make 4th.

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2 hours ago, Davey Baby said:

 

 

Now sure, best young talent, I'd agree with you there, but the PL is a huge step up, and crucially, Frank is up against managers who have way better credentials than him. Norwich, Sheffield Utd and Villa all got promoted last term, so their managers have way better credentials. Sean Dyche, Eddie Howe, Brendan Rodgers, Pellegrini, Roy Hodgson etc etc. These guys are no mugs. Their sides aren't going to hand us the points on a plate. Crucially, they're all very experienced, and that's before we talk about the likes of Pep and Klopp. We've already seen in our home games against Valencia, Sheffield Utd and Leicester that our manager is very green. Not a criticism of him, just the way it is. 

 

I wouldn't be so sure that the managers of Norwich, Sheffield and Villa have better credentials than Frankie;
He was very close to take Derby higher up, took them to the playoffs for the first time in 5 years and he lost in the final against Villa which was a coin toss either team could have won that game it just happen to be Villa that time, he did prove he is a good manager at his first season there. Look at someone like Jokanovic, he took Watford to the Premier League and then Fulham as well, still couldn't keep his job while at the top so it's not really having credentials. 

For example Sarri has this reputation of being a great coach, but when his tactics didn't work we looked totally outplayed and totally defeated, great example is the 4:nil loss to Bournemouth.
Frankie's football so far looks like we always have a chance to win any game, doesn't matter if we play Liverpool that are champions of Europe or anyone else. And even when we lost, like against Man United by 4 goals to nothing we didn't look half that bad, that result wasn't the true representation of how that game was going.

Sarri took with him Jorginho to play in his system, Frankie took Mount lets say. Mount is still a work in progress and has great potential while Jorginho finished all possible football educations, he's done, you can expect from him to be a classic hard working and an already developed player that helped Sarri to establish his way of playing. So this whole season is not just about Frank it's about a lot of young players that need to become amazing, and the majority of them can actually be amazing, but they need time.

Losing hard and looking clueless with Sarri was in order for the whole team to get used to Sarri, who wasn't going to be here for a long period of time...
...but losing hard with Frank is about the team growing to their full potential and so far we didn't look that bad while losing as we did with Sarri!

Klopp didn't outplay Frankie at all.
It was all about other factors that determined the winner, not the manager, in fact Frankie did great adjustments in the second half in the last game against Klopp and I believe there are even Liverpool fans out there that would openly say that we could have turned the whole game around. And consider that Klopp had years to make this team and he spent a lot of money, in his first season they lost Europa League finals while Sarri won it so easy, it looked like a joke but we loved it cause it was against Arsenal! But that puts everything in an interesting perspective, Klopp having this opportunity and trust is what makes him a good manager, he didn't do miracles like Conte in his first season nor did he win much in his first years and that's with great credentials...it means Liverpool simply trusted the process, something that we need to do with Frankie.

Valencia came with their strongest team, while we were missing Kante which is our best midfielder, Rudiger which is our best defender, Emerson which is our best left back. They got a goal and won after our team played better and even had a missed penalty shot, that's not Frankie being green, that's other factors, that's football it happens.

It's a mistake to not see Frankie as who he is. He was a great player, a smart player and he is a good manager. He wants the team to play attractive football and it's not fair to simply see him as someone who is very green for the job, he was ready for this.

 

Edited by Gol15

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22 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

He took them to the playoffs for the first time in 5 years.

 

They got to the play-offs the season before he arrived, when they finished 6th, the same position they finished under Frank.

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26 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Valencia came with their strongest team, while we were missing Kante which is our best midfielder, Rudiger which is our best defender, Emerson which is our best left back.

 

Valencia are f**king sh*t. On Sunday they drew at home to Leganes, the bottom side. They are in total disarray. We didn't even remotely look like scoring in that game, or hardly. After Mount went off early we lost control of the midfield. It was clear a example of Frank being green, against somebody who's never managed a club side. If you think that was a good performance, think again. It was a poor performance against a sh*t side in a crucial game. 

 

As for the rest of your post, you seem to be agreeing with me. Frank needs time, we need to be patient. Yes yes I've said all that. I couldn't be happier that he's here. He was my choice all along.

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34 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

I wouldn't be so sure that the managers of Norwich, Sheffield and Villa have better credentials than Frankie;
He was very close to take Derby higher up, took them to the playoffs for the first time in 5 years and he lost in the final against Villa which was a coin toss either team could have won that game it just happen to be Villa that time, he did prove he is a good manager at his first season there. Look at someone like Jokanovic, he took Watford to the Premier League and then Fulham as well, still couldn't keep his job while at the top so it's not really having credentials. 

For example Sarri has this reputation of being a great coach, but when his tactics didn't work we looked totally outplayed and totally defeated, great example is the 4:nil loss to Bournemouth.
Frankie's football so far looks like we always have a chance to win any game, doesn't matter if we play Liverpool that are champions of Europe or anyone else. And even when we lost, like against Man United by 4 goals to nothing we didn't look half that bad, that result wasn't the true representation of how that game was going.

Sarri took with him Jorginho to play in his system, Frankie took Mount lets say. Mount is still a work in progress and has great potential while Jorginho finished all possible football educations, he's done, you can expect from him to be a classic hard working and an already developed player that helped Sarri to establish his way of playing. So this whole season is not just about Frank it's about a lot of young players that need to become amazing, and the majority of them can actually be amazing, but they need time.

Losing hard and looking clueless with Sarri was in order for the whole team to get used to Sarri, who wasn't going to be here for a long period of time...
...but losing hard with Frank is about the team growing to their full potential and so far we didn't look that bad while losing as we did with Sarri!

Klopp didn't outplay Frankie at all.
It was all about other factors that determined the winner, not the manager, in fact Frankie did great adjustments in the second half in the last game against Klopp and I believe there are even Liverpool fans out there that would openly say that we could have turned the whole game around. And consider that Klopp had years to make this team and he spent a lot of money, in his first season they lost Europa League finals while Sarri won it so easy, it looked like a joke but we loved it cause it was against Arsenal! But that puts everything in an interesting perspective, Klopp having this opportunity and trust is what makes him a good manager, he didn't do miracles like Conte in his first season nor did he win much in his first years and that's with great credentials...it means Liverpool simply trusted the process, something that we need to do with Frankie.

Valencia came with their strongest team, while we were missing Kante which is our best midfielder, Rudiger which is our best defender, Emerson which is our best left back. They got a goal and won after our team played better and even had a missed penalty shot, that's not Frankie being green, that's other factors, that's football it happens.

It's a mistake to not see Frankie as who he is. He was a great player, a smart player and he is a good manager. He wants the team to play attractive football and it's not fair to simply see him as someone who is very green for the job, he was ready for this.

 

Well Frank tried one of Chris Wilders trademarks when he went to a back 3 and had Tomori roam forward to great affect against Wolves.

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2 minutes ago, Davey Baby said:

 

Valencia are f**king sh*t. On Sunday they drew at home to Leganes, the bottom side. They are in total disarray. We didn't even remotely look like scoring in that game, or hardly. After Mount went off early we lost control of the midfield. It was clear a example of Frank being green, against somebody who's never managed a club side. If you think that was a good performance, think again. It was a poor performance against a sh*t side in a crucial game. 

 

As for the rest of your post, you seem to be agreeing with me. Frank needs time, we need to be patient. Yes yes I've said all that. I couldn't be happier that he's here. He was my choice all along.

Spot on Davey. They flunked their win at the bridge as they never looked like scoring until that freekick.

We were just rotten  Willian garbage going forward.

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Just now, axman2526 said:

We were just rotten  Willian garbage going forward.

 

After Mount went off, we were relying on Pedro and Willian, and we all know how that ended, which further illustrates my point about the loss of Hazard. Callum will be back soon, and that will help us, but he's a teenager and we shouldn't be relying too much on him, as he will struggle for consistency and stamina. I still think he will be a key player, providing goals and assists.

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10 hours ago, cuppaT said:

Shrugging shoulders at constant poor results because of the “project” and “the kids” is all a bit Arsenal...:

Eeww! There's a difference between being Arsenal and being realistic for the present, whilst ambitious for the future. I'd like to think we're the latter :smile:

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To be perfectly honest, whether Frank's gonna be a good manager, whether we win a trophy or whether we get top four or top six, I'm already loving this season, no miserable and depressing Italian managers, or Portuguese bell end managers, it's a welcome relief, let's enjoy this season it's going to be fun. UTC

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11 hours ago, cuppaT said:

Shrugging shoulders at constant poor results because of the “project” and “the kids” is all a bit Arsenal...:

For once the club is taking the long term approach and most supporters are realizing that as well so i don't get your point.

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13 hours ago, Davey Baby said:

 

I'll expand a little on my thought processes.

 

Those multiple trophy winners have relied on Hazard from an attacking point of view. Even with a top 3 player in the world, and the best player in the Prem, we struggled in the league last couple of years, and that player got most of our goals and our assists, and that was with experienced managers.

 

Now sure, best young talent, I'd agree with you there, but the PL is a huge step up, and crucially, Frank is up against managers who have way better credentials than him. Norwich, Sheffield Utd and Villa all got promoted last term, so their managers have way better credentials. Sean Dyche, Eddie Howe, Brendan Rodgers, Pellegrini, Roy Hodgson etc etc. These guys are no mugs. Their sides aren't going to hand us the points on a plate. Crucially, they're all very experienced, and that's before we talk about the likes of Pep and Klopp. We've already seen in our home games against Valencia, Sheffield Utd and Leicester that our manager is very green. Not a criticism of him, just the way it is. 

 

This is a completely different level with far more scrutiny. Pressure can build. Even after the Liverpool game, in both his post-match interviews and his post-match press conference, Frank was talking very fast, far faster than usual, far faster than I've ever seen him talk. Watch them and see. That's stress. He knows he needs the points. All the talk in the world doesn't make up for points. You need to keep the vultures at bay, and if you're not winning, a manager's job is very stressful. Can Frank cope with that? We have no idea. Does he have leaders and characters in the dressing room to draw on if things get tough? That's another issue also. If pressure builds, we can't be relying on youngsters to show leadership. They're going to need to lean on a few old heads.

 

I'm delighted Frank's back. I'm  delighted he's playing youngsters. Top four is a pipe dream in my opinion. We've struggled in the league with Conte and Mourinho, and they were proven winners, and we had Hazard. Spurs and Arsenal may have problems, but their managers are proven, and crucially, they have PL experience. I'd be delighted if I'm wrong but I can't see it. Right now we're 11th. If we finish up there I'll be happy. 

 

Top 4 and Frank will deserve MOTY in my opinion.

While I'd certainly agree there will and has been times Frank's inexperience will show there's also times his more modern approach to football will have us overwhelming an opposition's managers more let's just say more cautious approach, as what happened at Molineux. Also while he has shown naivety in some games (especially at Stamford Bridge) extreme promise has been shown in others, like how he outsmarted Nuno, managed the game at Norwich (a result that looks even better in hindsight after what they did to City) and hasn't looked out of place twice against who many would say is the world's best manager (especially in Istanbul), I know he didn't beat him either time but being realistic to the level of both teams right now it's a very good reflection on the manager that such difference in quality wasn't really evident.

On a side note I don't know if it's a coincidence that hes managing away/neural games better than home games but I guess we will find out more as we go along.

We are still at worst the 6th best team in the league for me even with Frank's inexperience and no Eden, remember the year Spurs lost Bale and had Sherwood as manager? Frank has in my opinion already shown himself as more capable manager than Tim who had absolutely no grasp on football tactics whatsoever yet because of the quality of his players compared to the opposition he still managed to finish 6th (only a few points worse off than the year before with Bale and a much better manager) and beat some capable managers like Pochettino along the way. 

Regarding Spurs and Arsenal I'm not sure how proven managers helps them in this case. Pochettino looks bored and demotivated and we know more than anyone how results can suffer once a manager gets to that point (their form in 2019 results wise domestically is Chelsea 15/16 territory) and Emery seems clueless, he's setting them up defensively but can't do it properly, they are conceding as many chances as Brendan's Liverpool and creating as little as what we did after the old guard stagnated, they're heavily relying on Auba's finishing to merely get by.

While I certainly wont be surprised nor too downbeat to see us miss out on top four, I do think we have a massive chance to claim a place given the problems at the rivals which without meaning to sound like Wenger would at this point in the process feel almost like a trophy, almost!

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13 hours ago, cuppaT said:

Shrugging shoulders at constant poor results because of the “project” and “the kids” is all a bit Arsenal...:

With respect that bullsh*t.

The problem with Arsenal is they didn't evolve their "project" and still had the same targets when Cesc, RVP, Theo, Nasri, Clichy etc were in their prime as they did when the same players were teenagers. If Mount, Tomori, Odoi, Tammy are in their mid 20's and were still targeting mere good football and a top 4 challenge then yes come back and say that but at this minute you couldn't be more wrong.

When you're trying to build a team for a generation there's time performances are just as if not more important than the result. For example, say we win 1-0 on Sunday with Giroud, Willian, Pedro and Luiz (hypothetically we kept him) playing and the old Barkley/Kova sub being used and the only goal coming with a Robertson own goal one of the few times we entered their 3rd, yes 3 points up in the table but in terms of building a side to actually compete with Liverpool properly, step back.

Let's be real, at this stage Liverpool and City are too good, so we may aswell build a side ready to pounce when they fall or challenge them (whichever happens first) as opposed to just going short term to guarantee 3rd. I get short term thinking if it's to win the league but the quick fix to finish top 4? f**k that!

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3 hours ago, Sindre said:

For once the club is taking the long term approach and most supporters are realizing that as well so i don't get your point.

I do wonder how many claiming we're "turning into Arsenal" or "becoming a small club" amoung other soundbites also moan about us losing KDB and Salah because we were at the time focused more on instant results.

The same approach we're taking now back then would have seen both stay, so now we're taking steps to make sure Mount and Hudson Odoi will play for us and not City/Liverpool it's not good enough because apparently we're turning into Arsenal, dammed if we do and all that.

Edited by Argo

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Valencia are f**king sh*t. On Sunday they drew at home to Leganes, the bottom side. They are in total disarray. We didn't even remotely look like scoring in that game, or hardly. After Mount went off early we lost control of the midfield. It was clear a example of Frank being green, against somebody who's never managed a club side. If you think that was a good performance, think again. It was a poor performance against a sh*t side in a crucial game. 
 
As for the rest of your post, you seem to be agreeing with me. Frank needs time, we need to be patient. Yes yes I've said all that. I couldn't be happier that he's here. He was my choice all along.
Usually I agree but not in this one. Valencia is a top team. CL is a completely different animal to domestic leagues. It gives losing sides hope and up's their game when league standings look dire. Valencia players have played European competitions for years. They know how to play it. We have 5-6 players who are in a daze and awe hearing the CL anthem... We werent very close to scoring but they scored their only chance with being clever like seasoned pro's can. They dulled us but so did we apart from that one lapse.

Frank is Green in many ways but probably one of the most capable person to learn quick. He has the desire, ambitions and brains to do so.

So far he is not even in any pressure. If we start losing against the smaller sides then he will be heard by the board. I think Frank is pretty safe in his first season. Finish between 3rd and 10th and zero questions will be asked.

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13 hours ago, Davey Baby said:

 

Valencia are f**king sh*t. On Sunday they drew at home to Leganes, the bottom side. They are in total disarray. We didn't even remotely look like scoring in that game, or hardly. After Mount went off early we lost control of the midfield. It was clear a example of Frank being green, against somebody who's never managed a club side. If you think that was a good performance, think again. It was a poor performance against a sh*t side in a crucial game. 

 

As for the rest of your post, you seem to be agreeing with me. Frank needs time, we need to be patient. Yes yes I've said all that. I couldn't be happier that he's here. He was my choice all along.

Fair enough but saying that we didn't look like scoring is not really true, I mean simply by having that penalty proves that statement wrong. Look at the players that Valencia has, all experienced names that everyone knows. For some reason Pulisic didn't replace Mount but the opposition manager didn't look like he was taking full advantage of having a much experienced squad, sure we concided a naive goal which might point directly to Frankie being green and the set piece defending is now becoming an issue...

Ok there is still work to be done but consider the facts that Valencia had only 2 shots on target that day, 40% possession, only 2 corners, lower pass accuracy so pretty much all stats point out it was a very opportunistic win...Once again that might point to Frankie being green but so is our young squad.

Edited by Gol15

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2 hours ago, evissy said:

Valencia is a top team.

 

They were in Pot C. They have absolutely no chance of winning the CL. They are floundering in La Liga. Their manager had been sacked and their players had the hump. The new manager has never managed a club side. We were at home. When I call them sh*t, it should be taken in the context of the CL. You're not going to get much easier games. We were really poor that day. It happens. I understand Frank's learning his trade. I have no problem with it.

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5 hours ago, Argo said:

While I'd certainly agree there will and has been times Frank's inexperience will show there's also times his more modern approach to football will have us overwhelming an opposition's managers more let's just say more cautious approach, as what happened at Molineux. Also while he has shown naivety in some games (especially at Stamford Bridge) extreme promise has been shown in others, like how he outsmarted Nuno, managed the game at Norwich (a result that looks even better in hindsight after what they did to City) and hasn't looked out of place twice against who many would say is the world's best manager (especially in Istanbul), I know he didn't beat him either time but being realistic to the level of both teams right now it's a very good reflection on the manager that such difference in quality wasn't really evident.

On a side note I don't know if it's a coincidence that hes managing away/neural games better than home games but I guess we will find out more as we go along.

We are still at worst the 6th best team in the league for me even with Frank's inexperience and no Eden, remember the year Spurs lost Bale and had Sherwood as manager? Frank has in my opinion already shown himself as more capable manager than Tim who had absolutely no grasp on football tactics whatsoever yet because of the quality of his players compared to the opposition he still managed to finish 6th (only a few points worse off than the year before with Bale and a much better manager) and beat some capable managers like Pochettino along the way. 

Regarding Spurs and Arsenal I'm not sure how proven managers helps them in this case. Pochettino looks bored and demotivated and we know more than anyone how results can suffer once a manager gets to that point (their form in 2019 results wise domestically is Chelsea 15/16 territory) and Emery seems clueless, he's setting them up defensively but can't do it properly, they are conceding as many chances as Brendan's Liverpool and creating as little as what we did after the old guard stagnated, they're heavily relying on Auba's finishing to merely get by.

While I certainly wont be surprised nor too downbeat to see us miss out on top four, I do think we have a massive chance to claim a place given the problems at the rivals which without meaning to sound like Wenger would at this point in the process feel almost like a trophy, almost!

 

Regarding Sherwood, he had 5 months in the job, and he benefited from a new manager bounce when he took over in December, as for example did Di Matteo when he took over us, so I'm not sure it's a fair comparison. Both Di Matteo and Sherwood were replacing AVB, who was evidently so unpopular the players started winning games as soon as he left, so pleased were they. Lampard is clearly far more intelligent and has a lot more about him, as you say, so I'm expecting him to be a better manager.

 

Your points are valid and I admire your positive thinking and I hope you're right. Me personally, I can't see us finishing above Leicester, but I hope I'm wrong. Either way I'm happy. I'm just so glad Frank's back.

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Credit to the club and Frank for getting us functioning as a proper club should. No more Zappacostas, Drinkwaters or Sidwells playing in these types of matches. Give the academy players a run out like they should do and see what we have on deck. We're finally in a position where we know what we have in our young players before we send them on loan. 

Honestly wouldn't buy anyone come January unless they step into the first team and make us better from day 1. The club looks brimming with young talent all over the pitch. 

 

Edited by TheChelseaBlues

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10 hours ago, TheChelseaBlues said:

Credit to the club and Frank for getting us functioning as a proper club should. No more Zappacostas, Drinkwaters or Sidwells playing in these types of matches. Give the academy players a run out like they should do and see what we have on deck. We're finally in a position where we know what we have in our young players before we send them on loan. 

Honestly wouldn't buy anyone come January unless they step into the first team and make us better from day 1. The club looks brimming with young talent all over the pitch. 

 

It does look like we have a good squad both first XI and development squad.

I think Reece James is great prospect though less sure as a RB, think that might be one area we could strengthen.

Thought Frank did very well yesterday not just the team he put out yet the general game management with bringing on the development chaps.

Seems a while since we have done something like that successfully.

Utd in the next round is a different prospect and for all we know they might not have OGS at the helm.

 

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10 hours ago, TheChelseaBlues said:

Credit to the club and Frank for getting us functioning as a proper club should. No more Zappacostas, Drinkwaters or Sidwells playing in these types of matches. Give the academy players a run out like they should do and see what we have on deck. We're finally in a position where we know what we have in our young players before we send them on loan. 

Honestly wouldn't buy anyone come January unless they step into the first team and make us better from day 1. The club looks brimming with young talent all over the pitch. 

 

Agreed. I for one am very happy we changed the manager this summer which kickstarted the revolution we are seeing right now.
You really get the sense that we are building something for the future now with a whole army of exciting youngsters all getting chances and all performing.

I actually don’t think any of Mount, Abraham, Hudson Odoi, James or Tomori would be at the club this season if Lampard didn’t come in and now it looks like all of them might be good enough to form the core of this team for years to come.

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