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Super Frank Lampard *Officially our Manager*


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In defence off Lampard with Kante and his midfield options is none of them are really the most gifted in an attacking sense. Jorginho and Kovacic pick up yellows for fun, Jorginho is slow and form hasn't been great of late, Kovacic came on against Brighton and had a mare, Kante is out of form and Barkley likes to party so Lampards choices are quite limited. Theres no need for all 3 of them though against the smaller teams but then maybe Lampard doesn't trust the defence or Jorginhos defensive part of his game. 

Regarding Willian I can see why Lamps picks him, without looking at stats he has been our best winger the last month or so and I'm not one of Willians biggest fans but he deserves his place in the team atm.

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12 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

Juventus after 17 games in 2018/19 had won 16 and drawn 1. 

This year they are won 13 drawn 3 and lost 1

Conclusion: slightly worse under Sarri, and also with better competition from Conte's Inter than Juve had the year before from Ancelotti's Napoli

Juve went to the beach a bit early last season, as you can see from how the results tailed off after they'd clinched the title after round 33.

 

image.png.9b74986c345f99c58ec325a7791b8260.png

 

 

 

I would say Juve's squad is stronger this year.

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1 minute ago, Sexyfootball said:

OK then that's another nail in Sarri's coffin then !

Slojo's got the hammer ... 🙂

Haha! I prefer to look at this team and this season on it's own and Juve should quite comfortably win the league with that squad and go pretty far in the champions league, let's see what happens. Come on Conte 😉

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On the subject of players who deserve to be in the side on merit, this is how Whoscored have assessed our squad's performances season to date ...

Best player: Willian

Best midfielder: Kante ... just ahead of Kovacic 🙂

Stats are stats and all that, but interesting nonetheless ... Alonso is the one who Frank should be playing more based on this data ...

image.thumb.png.ca0d7bf6f6a3ffe30ad94fa4ebd201e8.png

 

Edited by Sexyfootball
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5 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

In defence off Lampard with Kante and his midfield options is none of them are really the most gifted in an attacking sense. Jorginho and Kovacic pick up yellows for fun, Jorginho is slow and form hasn't been great of late, Kovacic came on against Brighton and had a mare, Kante is out of form and Barkley likes to party so Lampards choices are quite limited. Theres no need for all 3 of them though against the smaller teams but then maybe Lampard doesn't trust the defence or Jorginhos defensive part of his game. 

Jorginho, Kovacic and Mount midfield was the trigger for our best run of results and performances of the season, since Kante's return that trio has been used once since and our forms gone with it, it was a poor decision to immediately break it up when as a trio they were doing well and picking up ahead of steam.

Kante doesn't look anything like the player we saw at Leicester and under Conte, whether that's due to the more possesion based system or miles on the clock I don't know but this current version while still very good isn't the same freak of nature from back then, that combined with a direct competitor playing at a world class level means he should have had a lot more of a fight to claim his place back than what he has done.

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1 hour ago, coco said:

And yet majority of Chelsea fans are happy with the change, and so far happy with the league position and entertainment value. What more could you ask for with zero transfers inbound?

We signed Pulisic. It's a weird myth that we had zero transfers. 

38 minutes ago, Slojo said:

It's halfway through the season and their level on points, are you seriously telling me that's good for their standard? They walk the league every year. 

Stop being obsessed with the table. They dropped points in 4 games at half way stage. That's title winning performance. Juventus will win the league by the end of the season but to say they are losing it now is just lying. They are still in Europe whilst Conte (yet again) flopped in Europe with a top side. 

Also Juventus didnt walk it a couple of years ago, remember when some Italian managing Napoli ran them very close? Selective memories. 

Some posters predicted Juventus would fall off a cliff. They haven't. Some people are weirdly supporting Conte, which I don't get. Sarri took our weak squad and came 3rd and won the Europa league, he should be celebrated. 

 

My overall point is. We lost a top world class manager. Who would have improved us this season. However we don't have him and we have a rookie manager who has seen us decline from last season, my hope is that he turns it around with experience. So we need to be patient, we need to give Lampard time. Otherwise the appointment was pointless. 

Edited by bisright1
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2 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

Stop being obsessed with the table. They dropped points in 4 games at half way stage. That's title winning performance. Juventus will win the league by the end of the season but to say they are losing it now is just lying.

So at the half way stage it's title winning performance from Juventus that currently has them in ... er .... 2nd ... 🙂

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13 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

So at the half way stage it's title winning performance from Juventus that currently has them in ... er .... 2nd ... 🙂

Level on points. Yes I think being level on points and dropping 9 points in 17 games is title winning performance. Yes I think being on track for 90+ points in a season is title winning performance. 

You can't control how well your opponents do but 95% of the time, 90+ points wins you a league. But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Sarri is as dreadful as you all say and hasn't got a clue what he's doing. If that is the case, surely Lampard should be sacked as he's not improved us. 

Edited by bisright1
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9 minutes ago, coco said:

Split hairs much 😂 

 

If we could have signed players, what would we have signed? We signed a player to replace Hazard. We used Abraham to replace Higuain/Morata.

We wouldn't have signed anyone else. So yes, I'm going to split hairs. 

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14 hours ago, Argo said:

Jorginho, Kovacic and Mount midfield was the trigger for our best run of results and performances of the season, since Kante's return that trio has been used once since and our forms gone with it, it was a poor decision to immediately break it up when as a trio they were doing well and picking up ahead of steam.

Kante doesn't look anything like the player we saw at Leicester and under Conte, whether that's due to the more possesion based system or miles on the clock I don't know but this current version while still very good isn't the same freak of nature from back then, that combined with a direct competitor playing at a world class level means he should have had a lot more of a fight to claim his place back than what he has done.

It's because Kante isn't where he should be in the new setup. Previously you had both Jorginho and Kova sit deeper and would take turns moving up and joining the attack. With Kante, he's practically our RM in the setup often leaving Jorginho alone

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For the life of me I'll never understand the Sarri obsession, at least with Mourinho he won us a f**kload of silverware and has been a very successful manager in the past. 

I don't think Sarri was awful by any means but there's 0 evidence to suggest we would be doing better with Sarri than we would Lampard, Sarri isn't doing a good job at Juventus and he wasn't doing much better than Frank was this year despite having a better team. 

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On 02/01/2020 at 09:53, Sindre said:

A wise man once said;

“Never change a winning team”

If Lampard took that to heart, I fully believe we would be out of sight for Tottenham and ManUtd by now. Instead we are limping ourselves right now and I do think Lampard have shot himself in the foot in many ways over the last couple of months.

We had something that worked extremely well going with Jorginho and Kovacic anchoring the midfield between them. They had great chemistry, kept possession, controlled games and we were winning. Then Kante comes back and Lampard decides to break up the duo to shoehorn N’golo into the side. And since that decision was made, we have struggled.

If you want to play possession-style football you want possession-style players in your team. The two beforementioned very much are, the latter not so much. And we suffer because of it. I am not going to go in-depth into why Kante shouldn’t be starting in the pivot but let’s just say that the results should be enough of an indication of who should be playing there.

Both Jorginho and Kovacic were clear candidates for POTS before Lampard started tinkering with the midfield. Especially Kovacic have been far better then Kante in every aspect of the game this season, defensively and offensively.

So let’s just hope Lampard gets it and goes back to our winning team.

I would have taken beating Brighton, Everton, Southampton and West Ham and losing to Tottenham and Arsenal away than the other way around. 

Yes, football isn't that simple, but we were blowing these teams away before the international break, creating chances for fun, we created the most chances in the league by that point, we just weren't scoring the goals. Right now, we still have a lot of the ball, but we aren't doing anything with it, it's completely changed. I think this is a big mistake on Lampard’s part for changing the setup. 

Edited by Slojo
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38 minutes ago, Slojo said:

I would have taken beating Brighton, Everton, Southampton and West Ham and losing to Tottenham and Arsenal away than the other way around. 

Yes, football isn't that simple, but we were blowing these teams away before the international break, creating chances for fun, we created the most chances in the league by that point, we just weren't scoring the goals. Right now, we still have a lot of the ball, but we aren't doing anything with it, it's completely changed. I think this is a big mistake on Lampard’s part for changing the setup. 

We are in the most competitive league with probably the best managers, in the first half of the season you can surprise teams with new formations and players yet at a certain point they suss you out and you need to change.

I would say we were sussed out by the beginning of December and did not change quickly enough. 

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59 minutes ago, Slojo said:

For the life of me I'll never understand the Sarri obsession, at least with Mourinho he won us a f**kload of silverware and has been a very successful manager in the past. 

I don't think Sarri was awful by any means but there's 0 evidence to suggest we would be doing better with Sarri than we would Lampard, Sarri isn't doing a good job at Juventus and he wasn't doing much better than Frank was this year despite having a better team. 

He is doing a good job at Juventus. How can you blindly say he's doing a bad job? They've lost one league game all season. They won their champions league group (with athletico Madrid in it).  

It's not an obsession, just trying to balance the conversation. Sarri hasn't had a bad season as manager in a long long time (very very rare for any manager) and he's treated like he's an idiot who knows nothing about football, whilst lampard who has overseen a worse Chelsea season than sarri last year is seen as a definite improvement. Either sarri was a muppet and lampard is even worse, or sarri is a great manager and lampard has potential to be great. It can't be one of each and I just think it's the latter.

There's a lot of evidence to suggest that when a manager implements a new style, it takes a year to get going, I just wish we had seen what second season sarri ball actually looked like. 

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In a way it's similar to last season, we had a great start, went to Spurs and Sarri ball got ripped apart, then the string of bad results followed. All the sudden the possession looked like extra luggage for us to carry. Note last season we were playing Europa league. the Thursday night group games were more like a trial for squad players. This time we played 6 tough games in the CL ( due to our inability close out games), took a look out of the players. Lampard see players everyday, he knew problems way before any of us. More likely he had to make those changes, than pleasing one or two players.

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44 minutes ago, Strider6003 said:

We are in the most competitive league with probably the best managers, in the first half of the season you can surprise teams with new formations and players yet at a certain point they suss you out and you need to change.

I would say we were sussed out by the beginning of December and did not change quickly enough. 

How were we sussed out when we weren't playing the same team? 

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3 minutes ago, Slojo said:

How were we sussed out when we weren't playing the same team? 

Most of the team were the same and they certainly adapted to handle Tammy being the lone striker just as under Sarri, Jorginho was targeted and Luiz's long balls to Pedro were countered. 

They have also ensured the edge of the box area is really congested to stop Mount and Pulisic combining efficiently.

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2 hours ago, Slojo said:

For the life of me I'll never understand the Sarri obsession, at least with Mourinho he won us a f**kload of silverware and has been a very successful manager in the past. 

I don't think Sarri was awful by any means but there's 0 evidence to suggest we would be doing better with Sarri than we would Lampard, Sarri isn't doing a good job at Juventus and he wasn't doing much better than Frank was this year despite having a better team. 

The Sarri obsession is very small group of people. It's not even about who is the better manager, for me it's about who would have done better this season under the circumstances we have been put under. No Hazard who is world class and saved us many times in the past. Kante, Rudiger and RLC injured for long parts, a manager who needs to look after a group of youngsters who have turned out to be an important part of the group. I would rather have Lampard under these circumstances than Sarri, Sarri for me has a lack of man management and after seeing how dealt with CHO then I can't see how he would be playing 5-6 youngsters. I doubt CHO would have signed a new contract if Sarri stayed and then how much believe would that have given the other youngsters? I saw nothing last year that suggests Sarri would have us in a better situation this year.

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18 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

The Sarri obsession is very small group of people. It's not even about who is the better manager, for me it's about who would have done better this season under the circumstances we have been put under. No Hazard who is world class and saved us many times in the past. Kante, Rudiger and RLC injured for long parts, a manager who needs to look after a group of youngsters who have turned out to be an important part of the group. I would rather have Lampard under these circumstances than Sarri, Sarri for me has a lack of man management and after seeing how dealt with CHO then I can't see how he would be playing 5-6 youngsters. I doubt CHO would have signed a new contract if Sarri stayed and then how much believe would that have given the other youngsters? I saw nothing last year that suggests Sarri would have us in a better situation this year.

CHO wouldn't have signed a new contract? Fine. Sarri brought him into the first team, gave him games, improved him. If he wants to leave in those circumstances he's an idiot. Has he played a good game under Lampard? 

Lampard has dealt with the youth well, do I think Sarri would have done better this year with the squad and after a full season of implementing his ideas, potentially. Do I think that under Sarri we'd have 10 points from the last 9 league games (since the international break), definitely not. We are very much in mid-table form at the moment and we've got the strongest squad we've had all season. In our worst 9 game spell last season, we still got 16 points. 

 

Edited by bisright1
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8 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

CHO wouldn't have signed a new contract? Fine. Sarri brought him into the first team, gave him games, improved him. If he wants to leave in those circumstances he's an idiot. Has he played a good game under Lampard? 

Lampard has dealt with the youth well, do I think Sarri would have done better this year with the squad and after a full season of implementing his ideas, potentially. Do I think that under Sarri we'd have 10 points from the last 9 league games (since the international break), definitely not. We are very much in mid-table form at the moment and we've got the strongest squad we've had all season. In our worst 9 game spell last season, we still got 16 points. 

 

Why would CHO be an idiot? Sarri's treatment of him was poor, he would have left then we have Pedro, Willian and Pulisic. Then what does that say to the other youngsters who would have had to play at some point. They are mates, they all talk, it's like any other workplace. CHO was playing well until he got injured.

So your picking Lampard's worse run of form and making comparisons on a completely different squad? Im sure if Lampard had a get out of jail free player he would have more points. How well do I think Sarri would have done before the international break, not very well having to play Tomori and Zouma every game, I doubt we would have qualified through the champions league aswell. 

Before you get all excited about Juve, David Moyes would win the league out there,.

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Anyone who thinks sarri would have done better with a transfer ban, selling hazard, losing 3 of our best players for a large part of the games is deluded. He would have played giroud/bats who wouild gave been lucky to have scored 10 between them, kept playing the usual players in the wrong way and our youth would barely have had a game. 

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1 hour ago, Ernie_blue said:

Why would CHO be an idiot? Sarri's treatment of him was poor, he would have left then we have Pedro, Willian and Pulisic. Then what does that say to the other youngsters who would have had to play at some point. They are mates, they all talk, it's like any other workplace. CHO was playing well until he got injured.

So your picking Lampard's worse run of form and making comparisons on a completely different squad? Im sure if Lampard had a get out of jail free player he would have more points. How well do I think Sarri would have done before the international break, not very well having to play Tomori and Zouma every game, I doubt we would have qualified through the champions league aswell. 

Before you get all excited about Juve, David Moyes would win the league out there,.

What poor treatment? Sarri didn't rush CHO into the first team. He shielded him from that pressure as he worked to improve him. By the end of the season CHO was performing and a first team player. Had he rushed him he'd likely have suffered under the limelight similar to ... well... CHO now. Nervous, not performing, constant negative headlines and tweets under a banner of a 150k a week contract.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, in hindsight can you seriously not see that what Sarri was doing was the RIGHT approach to CHO? I don't know what CHO would have done if Sarri had stayed, he either would have accepted what Sarri was doing was correct or would have made a mistake and left. There will potentially be a question in a few years of "why didn't CHO succeed under Lampard?". If that happens, then we can talk about Sarri's "mistreatment" of CHO.

I am picking Lampards worst run of form and comparing it against Sarri's. One that Sarri is constantly pulled up on, despite 16 points in 9 being not too poor. Sarri was slagged off because we came third with only 72 points - I think we all agree now we'd absolutely love 72 points this season.

It's a valid argument to suggest that Sarri was helped by Hazard performing but then you are completely discounting that Hazard had his most productive season at Chelsea under Sarri. Do you not give Sarri any credit for turning a player that regularly misfires into a player that consistently performed? Jose and Conte both had Hazard in their final seasons with us and he never got them out of jail.

Do I know how Sarri would have done with the limited squad? No idea. Neither do you. I think he'd have done alright. It wouldn't be the first time his team lost their best player and improved the year after...he improved Napoli after they lost their best striker and didn't replace him.

And I purely react on the Juventus chat because some people are directly saying that they are having a poor season. They aren't. Under absolutely no measure can you say Juventus are having a poor season. They just aren't having a record breaking season, I don't get excited by them because I care as much about Juventus as I do Inter, I am just stating the quite clear facts. On track for 90+ points, top of the CL group. Not a poor season. Sarri, 3rd in the PL, winner of Europa league, produced the best season Hazard has had, turned RLC into a top player, turned CHO into a first team player, not a bad manager. 

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