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1 hour ago, Slojo said:

What was the false statement? 

On 20/11/2019 at 13:31, Slojo said:

I think he'll do well with them on the bounce, but after that I have strong doubts, Jose hasn't been anywhere where he hasn't had a good budget to spend, he'll hate the idea of being able to just buy one marquee player a season. 

He won with Porto without spending much, he won with Inter without spending much. Now, moving on, he won Europa League and a Premier league title in the last 5 years or so, Pochettino couldn't win anything but Jose together with Spurs can be a very dangerous combination. My whole point is that we must not underestimate Spurs, Jose is also like a wounded animal right now and this is his last chance to show that he can still hold a decent job in the Premier league. Conte didn't underestimate Jose and we managed to win that FA cup, which was a rare loss for Jose in Cup finals overall.

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1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

 

He won with Porto without spending much, he won with Inter without spending much. Now, moving on, he won Europa League and a Premier league title in the last 5 years or so, Pochettino couldn't win anything but Jose together with Spurs can be a very dangerous combination. My whole point is that we must not underestimate Spurs, Jose is also like a wounded animal right now and this is his last chance to show that he can still hold a decent job in the Premier league. Conte didn't underestimate Jose and we managed to win that FA cup, which was a rare loss for Jose in Cup finals overall.

"without spending much", I really don't know why I waste my time debating with you, nothing I say seems to sink in. 

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46 minutes ago, Slojo said:

"without spending much", I really don't know why I waste my time debating with you, nothing I say seems to sink in. 

He spent much more with us the first time he was here, than in Inter and Porto. But even if he had spent three times more in Inter he still didn't spend much in Porto so your statement is wrong, either way, whatever way you put it. But since you're actually wrong here it is anyway:

ARRIVALS 08/09
Players Club Transfer sum
Ricardo Quaresma FC Porto FC Porto 24,60 mil. €
Sulley Muntari Portsmouth FC Portsmouth 14,00 mil. €
Mancini AS Roma AS Roma 13,00 mil. €
Luis Jiménez Ternana Calcio Ternana 6,30 mil. €
Philippe Coutinho Club de Regatas Vasco da Gama U17 Vasco U17 3,80 mil. €
Riccardo Meggiorini AS Cittadella Cittadella 2,50 mil. €
Victor Obinna Chievo Verona Chievo Verona 1,20 mil. €
Hernán Crespo Chelsea FC Chelsea Free transfer

 

65m Euros first season ( around 60m pounds) for 8 players, his biggest signing Quaresma went on loan to our club during that same period. Is that much to you? Muntari the big signing of his first year? The same year he lost among others, Adriano, Recoba, Solari, to spend 8m euroes per player isn't really spending much at all.

 

ARRIVALS 09/10
Players Club Transfer sum
Diego Milito Genoa CFC Genoa 25,00 mil. €
Samuel Eto'o FC Barcelona FC Barcelona 20,00 mil. €
Wesley Sneijder Real Madrid Real Madrid 15,00 mil. €
Thiago Motta Genoa CFC Genoa 10,20 mil. €
McDonald Mariga Parma FC Parma 10,00 mil. €
Lúcio Bayern Munich Bayern Munich 7,00 mil. €
Emiliano Viviano Brescia Calcio Brescia 7,00 mil. €
Daniele Pedrelli ACD Treviso Treviso Free transfer
Goran Pandev SS Lazio Lazio Free transfer

Second season, 94 million euros (90m pounds) for 9 players he got in total, like I said, highest spent fee 25mil euros for Diego Milito. Is that spending too much considering that the following players left the club that year: Ibrahimovic, Crespo, Cruz, Viera, Burdisso, Bonucci, Maxwell, Aquafresca...

That's 9 players for 8 that left, Eto'o wasn't really just a transfer but an exchange for Ibrahimovic as well. So he lost many players and got new ones, on average 10m euros per player. Where did he spend much money in Inter, on who? Milito? Wow...The SAME YEAR WE SPENT 21m EUROS FOR ZHIRKOV A FULL BACK. 

But like I said, even if you think that he spent tons of money in those 2 years in Inter, he still didn't spend much while in Porto, so your initial statment is still false. You said he hates the idea of spending 1 marquee player a season, this is exactly what he did with Milito in Inter and won everything that year with Diego being his key striker, similar to what Diego Costa was. Now he will have Kane, and a squad that is better than the one he had in ManUnited.

2 seasons in Inter, around 150m pounds, with 11 known players +maybe the same amount of not so known that left the club, around 14 players he bought with money not counting free transfers.
SPURS SPENT MORE MONEY in those same years, 08'-10' they spent around 140m 2008/09, and 40m 2009/10 that's around 180m pounds. We spent less than both, but considering how much the club spent in the season right before those two and after those two, it's not a real argument, like I said Jose himself spent way more money when he was here.

 

Now, all this is just you speculating that Spurs and Jose agreed to work together where both parties were in agreement that Jose will not get much money for transfers. What if Spurs knew which type of manager they were getting (would be funny if you thought otherwise) and what if Jose only accepted after knowing that he will get a decent amount of money for the future transfers?

Would Jose really risk his potentially last "big job offer" if he knew that he has no chance of doing anything his way? Hardly doubt that he would just walk in knowing that he can't buy anyone, he's not that desperate. If Spurs could spend 110million last time they might as well spend 200m next time, which even by your opinion can mean more than just one marquee player. I think by now I got my points across, good luck to you...

Edited by Gol15
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33 minutes ago, Munkworth said:

Unless you’re Carlo Cudicini...

Obviously...

I also forgive Joe Cole for playing for a gazillion clubs, amongst others Liverpool, after leaving Chelsea.

I don't get some people are getting so worked up about a former manager getting a new job in the EPL. Why would managers have the same loyalty to a club as its supporters do? There are hardly any players anymore who play for the same club their whole career, the same goes for managers. For players and managers alike, signing for a new club is just about a job. What are they supposed to do, only sign for a new club in a different country because the supporters call them a Judas if they dare to work again in the same league? That's going to be a lot of moving from country to country then. Even Ranieri managed two other clubs in the EPL, and he's worked practically in every country you can think of. Nobody called him a Judas, or prattled about losing all respect for him.

We switch jobs, why wouldn't they? At the end of the day, only the supporters have ultimate loyalty, that prabably explains the kneejerk overreactions when a former club employee  sees things differently.

Edited by Valerie
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4 hours ago, Gol15 said:

He spent much more with us the first time he was here, than in Inter and Porto. But even if he had spent three times more in Inter he still didn't spend much in Porto so your statement is wrong, either way, whatever way you put it. But since you're actually wrong here it is anyway:

ARRIVALS 08/09
Players Club Transfer sum
Ricardo Quaresma FC Porto FC Porto 24,60 mil. €
Sulley Muntari Portsmouth FC Portsmouth 14,00 mil. €
Mancini AS Roma AS Roma 13,00 mil. €
Luis Jiménez Ternana Calcio Ternana 6,30 mil. €
Philippe Coutinho Club de Regatas Vasco da Gama U17 Vasco U17 3,80 mil. €
Riccardo Meggiorini AS Cittadella Cittadella 2,50 mil. €
Victor Obinna Chievo Verona Chievo Verona 1,20 mil. €
Hernán Crespo Chelsea FC Chelsea Free transfer

 

65m Euros first season ( around 60m pounds) for 8 players, his biggest signing Quaresma went on loan to our club during that same period. Is that much to you? Muntari the big signing of his first year? The same year he lost among others, Adriano, Recoba, Solari, to spend 8m euroes per player isn't really spending much at all.

 

ARRIVALS 09/10
Players Club Transfer sum
Diego Milito Genoa CFC Genoa 25,00 mil. €
Samuel Eto'o FC Barcelona FC Barcelona 20,00 mil. €
Wesley Sneijder Real Madrid Real Madrid 15,00 mil. €
Thiago Motta Genoa CFC Genoa 10,20 mil. €
McDonald Mariga Parma FC Parma 10,00 mil. €
Lúcio Bayern Munich Bayern Munich 7,00 mil. €
Emiliano Viviano Brescia Calcio Brescia 7,00 mil. €
Daniele Pedrelli ACD Treviso Treviso Free transfer
Goran Pandev SS Lazio Lazio Free transfer

Second season, 94 million euros (90m pounds) for 9 players he got in total, like I said, highest spent fee 25mil euros for Diego Milito. Is that spending too much considering that the following players left the club that year: Ibrahimovic, Crespo, Cruz, Viera, Burdisso, Bonucci, Maxwell, Aquafresca...

That's 9 players for 8 that left, Eto'o wasn't really just a transfer but an exchange for Ibrahimovic as well. So he lost many players and got new ones, on average 10m euros per player. Where did he spend much money in Inter, on who? Milito? Wow...The SAME YEAR WE SPENT 21m EUROS FOR ZHIRKOV A FULL BACK. 

But like I said, even if you think that he spent tons of money in those 2 years in Inter, he still didn't spend much while in Porto, so your initial statment is still false. You said he hates the idea of spending 1 marquee player a season, this is exactly what he did with Milito in Inter and won everything that year with Diego being his key striker, similar to what Diego Costa was. Now he will have Kane, and a squad that is better than the one he had in ManUnited.

2 seasons in Inter, around 150m pounds, with 11 known players +maybe the same amount of not so known that left the club, around 14 players he bought with money not counting free transfers.
SPURS SPENT MORE MONEY in those same years, 08'-10' they spent around 140m 2008/09, and 40m 2009/10 that's around 180m pounds. We spent less than both, but considering how much the club spent in the season right before those two and after those two, it's not a real argument, like I said Jose himself spent way more money when he was here.

 

Now, all this is just you speculating that Spurs and Jose agreed to work together where both parties were in agreement that Jose will not get much money for transfers. What if Spurs knew which type of manager they were getting (would be funny if you thought otherwise) and what if Jose only accepted after knowing that he will get a decent amount of money for the future transfers?

Would Jose really risk his potentially last "big job offer" if he knew that he has no chance of doing anything his way? Hardly doubt that he would just walk in knowing that he can't buy anyone, he's not that desperate. If Spurs could spend 110million last time they might as well spend 200m next time, which even by your opinion can mean more than just one marquee player. I think by now I got my points across, good luck to you...

Price tags 9 years ago were much different than now. 150m over 2 seasons was a lot of money, especially for a club that is not traditionally a big spender like Madrid. You've got to give him Porto but let's be honest, his history indicates he doesn't fair well if he can't splash cash when he wants on who he wants. 

He may get what he wants this summer but how long is that going to continue with Levy holding the purse strings? 

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1 hour ago, TheChelseaBlues said:

Price tags 9 years ago were much different than now. 150m over 2 seasons was a lot of money, especially for a club that is not traditionally a big spender like Madrid. You've got to give him Porto but let's be honest, his history indicates he doesn't fair well if he can't splash cash when he wants on who he wants. 

He may get what he wants this summer but how long is that going to continue with Levy holding the purse strings? 

It's pointless, I've explained this several times. 150 million over 2 seasons like you said was a lot of money 10 years ago. 50 million for Torres was an absolute shock in 2011, now clubs like Everton are paying 50 million for players. 

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2 hours ago, TheChelseaBlues said:

Price tags 9 years ago were much different than now. 150m over 2 seasons was a lot of money, especially for a club that is not traditionally a big spender like Madrid. You've got to give him Porto but let's be honest, his history indicates he doesn't fair well if he can't splash cash when he wants on who he wants. 

He may get what he wants this summer but how long is that going to continue with Levy holding the purse strings? 

Wait, how is 150m over two seasons a lot of money? Look at the list, one bigger signing Milito in 2 years, for a club like Inter that was really nothing, specially since they were among the top 3 clubs in Italy back then. Those years every big club was doing more or less the same thing, Barcelona getting a 30 year old Henry for the same money pretty much as Inter got Milito for example.

Inter maybe isn't like Madrid, but nobody was like Madrid untill Man City and PSG changed their owners so that notion isn't really important.
I can actually argue that Inter was among the clubs that used to spend more money pretty often, they are the first club to sign a player for more than £100k in football history.

Remember 97' when they signed the Brazilian Ronaldo for just a bit less than 20m pounds, that was like a record signing at the time, Inter later on broke another record by signing Vieri just a year or two after that, for 32m pounds from Lazio.
So they spent 20m for Ronaldo, and 32m for Vieri BEFORE the year 2000, why do you think that Inter spending at their highest with Mourinho 25m for Milito is a lot of money? Considering how many players left the club as well, I mean I posted that Spurs themselves were spending more money than Inter in those two seasons, but they also got rid of a lot of players...08/09 their main rivals AC Milan spent a bit more than 68m euros, which is more than Inter as well, it was when they got Ronaldinho and loaned Shevchenko from us, they spent way less the following year though, but it was an end to their glory days since Kaka left for Real Madrid that year. When Kaka left AC Milan fell apart, when that Inter team won everything and Mourinho left they fell apart as well. It's hard to rebuild, similar thing happen to ManUnited and I dare to say our own club is doing a good job in rebuilding after a great generation of players stopped playing. Inter needed something extra for that last step and they got it in Mourinho.

Mourinho did come to a top club from Porto, that is a fact. Inter was all set, much more than Madrid and ManUnited were. But Spurs are a better team than ManUnited, I do think that he will get what he wants in the summer, that can be enough to make a lot of noise and that worries me.

Edited by Gol15
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1 hour ago, Slojo said:

It's pointless, I've explained this several times. 150 million over 2 seasons like you said was a lot of money 10 years ago. 50 million for Torres was an absolute shock in 2011, now clubs like Everton are paying 50 million for players. 

Delusional at this point, OK.

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8 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Mourinho did come to a top club from Porto, that is a fact. Inter was all set, much more than Madrid and ManUnited were. But Spurs are a better team than ManUnited, I do think that he will get what he wants in the summer, that can be enough to make a lot of noise and that worries me.

Hes going to have to spend a lot of money to make Spurs a title contender, people talk like they're in the position they were in 2017 (where they just needed one final push) but they're not, there's a reason their forms been so bad all year and it's because they're not very good.

Kane and Son are the only players from the 2016/2017 side who are still as good or better now as they were back then. The rest have either hit a wall (Alli, Dier, Eriksen), left and been poorly replaced (Dembele, Walker, Trippier) or turned to bang average players due to ageing/injuries (Vertonghen, Alderwierld, Rose, Lloris, Waynama). They have in effect lost 11 (and that's just from the top of my head) high performing players in two years which is huge, it's probably an even bigger backdrop to the one we faced when the old guard declined.

When people access the quality of this Spurs side they're accessing them based on what these players were, not what they currently are. Realistically speaking they're a 6th/7th placed quality side with mid 60s points tally. Jose doing his usual second season high may elevate them back into a CL spot, but to challenge for the league against these City and Liverpool sides next term would require a monster probably record breaking summer of spending for one club in a window, so really, whether Jose's spell at Spurs isn't a failure is solely down to whether he can somehow flunk a CL run and bring big ears to WHL.

Edited by Argo
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Really good feature on how late winners have impacted on Prem-winning sides over the years.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50332967

Obviously there is no past data on Liverpool, who have yet to win the Prem, but the stats from this season show they are picking up a freakishly high number of points with late goals.

We have never been great at grabbing late winners compared to, say, Liverpool or Manure. I remember RLC's injury-time winner at Cardiff last season was our first for about 6 years.

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7 hours ago, Argo said:

Hes going to have to spend a lot of money to make Spurs a title contender, people talk like they're in the position they were in 2017 (where they just needed one final push) but they're not, there's a reason their forms been so bad all year and it's because they're not very good.

Kane and Son are the only players from the 2016/2017 side who are still as good or better now as they were back then. The rest have either hit a wall (Alli, Dier, Eriksen), left and been poorly replaced (Dembele, Walker, Trippier) or turned to bang average players due to ageing/injuries (Vertonghen, Alderwierld, Rose, Lloris, Waynama). They have in effect lost 11 (and that's just from the top of my head) high performing players in two years which is huge, it's probably an even bigger backdrop to the one we faced when the old guard declined.

When people access the quality of this Spurs side they're accessing them based on what these players were, not what they currently are. Realistically speaking they're a 6th/7th placed quality side with mid 60s points tally. Jose doing his usual second season high may elevate them back into a CL spot, but to challenge for the league against these City and Liverpool sides next term would require a monster probably record breaking summer of spending for one club in a window, so really, whether Jose's spell at Spurs isn't a failure is solely down to whether he can somehow flunk a CL run and bring big ears to WHL.

OK, lets hope you're right, I hope that they won't be good at all with Jose, but if they beat us it will be mostly because we underestimated them, and then you should remember that I was trying to particularly speak about that, a month earlier.

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14 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

OK, lets hope you're right, I hope that they won't be good at all with Jose, but if they beat us it will be mostly because we underestimated them, and then you should remember that I was trying to particularly speak about that, a month earlier.

I don't think we will underestimate them. Jose can still do it in a one off match, especially one like this and Lampard will know that. I just don't feel he will be able to get Spurs to a title challenge in the short time it will require before he combusts.

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16 minutes ago, dansubrosa said:

The thing that really irks me is how everybody speaks of Spurs as a big club nowadays... What the f*ck have they won? 1 league cup in 19 years.

I can remember us moaning we hadn't won anything in 24 years, ok perhaps it was only us that felt we were a big club yet Spurs do now have a ground of 62K they are still in the Champions league and although the trophy cabinet is bare they might just have signed the manager than can help deliver their first cup in a while.

The media do have a love-in with Spurs not quite as bad as Liverpool in my opinion so hopefully Frank delivers us some silverware either this or next season 

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On 21/11/2019 at 20:30, Valerie said:

Obviously...

I also forgive Joe Cole for playing for a gazillion clubs, amongst others Liverpool, after leaving Chelsea.

I don't get some people are getting so worked up about a former manager getting a new job in the EPL. Why would managers have the same loyalty to a club as its supporters do? There are hardly any players anymore who play for the same club their whole career, the same goes for managers. For players and managers alike, signing for a new club is just about a job. What are they supposed to do, only sign for a new club in a different country because the supporters call them a Judas if they dare to work again in the same league? That's going to be a lot of moving from country to country then. Even Ranieri managed two other clubs in the EPL, and he's worked practically in every country you can think of. Nobody called him a Judas, or prattled about losing all respect for him.

We switch jobs, why wouldn't they? At the end of the day, only the supporters have ultimate loyalty, that prabably explains the kneejerk overreactions when a former club employee  sees things differently.

The whole loyalty thing works both ways too. You can't sack a manager or get rid of a player, then complain about disloyalty when they show up at a rival club. Do people expect him to go and manage Leyton Orient or something?

We sacked Jose. Twice. As I recall, a lot of people on here were happy with that decision. He's entitled to look for another job and he got an offer from a Champions League club who also reached the final last season. No unemployed manager in the world would turn it down.

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8 hours ago, Englishman said:

The whole loyalty thing works both ways too. You can't sack a manager or get rid of a player, then complain about disloyalty when they show up at a rival club. Do people expect him to go and manage Leyton Orient or something?

We sacked Jose. Twice. As I recall, a lot of people on here were happy with that decision. He's entitled to look for another job and he got an offer from a Champions League club who also reached the final last season. No unemployed manager in the world would turn it down.

He was sacked once, and it's not like it was unfair.

I don't think the majority of supporters expect Jose to never take other jobs, they expected him to stay respectful towards us given the unconditional support he got while he was dragging us into a relegation battle.

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