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4-2-3-1: toilet formation


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4-2-3-1: how my inbred cousin Giacomo counts down from 5. Amusing to watch when it's the offspring of two 1st cousins from the mountainous regions of Friuli struggling with his numbers, less fun to watch on a football field.

It's a particularly poor choice given the players available. It sacrifices depth from the wingers for a higher 10, and the wingers we have (Pedro, Pulisic) are players who you would like to see playing close to / behind Giroud in a 4-3-3. They have to do more defensive work, and end up deeper and wider. So unless we plan on signing James Milner and Mark Albrighton, or playing Willian on the right every game, I don't understand. 

"Liverpool do it", you say? When they do, their press is perfect and Salah and Mané have slightly more pace and quality than ours.  

In my experience, lovers of this setup are stubborn, much like my cousin Giacomo's pet donkey Cristina, who endured a painful existence under the reign of a simpleton who was once outwitted by a box of matches. Let's face it, if you pick this setup for those players, you're not thinking well. I've only seen 90 minutes of Chelsea under Lamps, and for at least half of that I was watching Chernobyl, but I'm calling it: Lamps, toilet manager.

Finally, whoever declined 60m for Willian and signed Kovačić for 40m pounds should be launched from a catapult at half time of the next home fixture. 

Edited by Pauly
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Kovacic did not make a difference today, but I think he's an important player for us - and I understand the decision to buy him given the transfer ban, and needing a bunch of senior plays. Admittedly he could have done better today, but at the same time I can't hate on the guy for today's performance. Willian however was a net negative coming off from the bench and just stifled the remaining attacks that we were building up...

I would actually like to see us go with a 4-3-3: with Kante, Jorginho and Kovacic as the three staples, with Mount and Barkley coming into the picture and replacing them sometimes. Pulisic tried hard but didn't have a great game - still adjusting to the league I guess and is a young lad himself. Awaiting Cho's return to see what he brings. Pedro will be an important player for us this season, and hoping he can put more performances like he did against Liverpool.

In any case, we are realistically 2 games into the season. The first scoreline not being reflective of our performance, and this one being a fair result all in all. We all know this season will be tough so let's not expect to steamroll through everyone and give Lampard a chance to continue working with the players, reviewing them and working on his systems.

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I’ve said it before but I much preferred how we looked in the 4-4-2 narrow diamond formation in pre season. It played better to the strengths of the players we had available, we looked more solid and are build up play was great. Until CHO is back I don’t think we’re strong enough on the wings to justify another formation. 

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5 hours ago, Pauly said:

4-2-3-1: how my inbred cousin Giacomo counts down from 5. Amusing to watch when it's the offspring of two 1st cousins from the mountainous regions of Friuli struggling with his numbers, less fun to watch on a football field.

It's a particularly poor choice given the players available. It sacrifices depth from the wingers for a higher 10, and the wingers we have (Pedro, Pulisic) are players who you would like to see playing close to / behind Giroud in a 4-3-3. They have to do more defensive work, and end up deeper and wider. So unless we plan on signing James Milner and Mark Albrighton, or playing Willian on the right every game, I don't understand. 

"Liverpool do it", you say? When they do, their press is perfect and Salah and Mané have slightly more pace and quality than ours.  

In my experience, lovers of this setup are stubborn, much like my cousin Giacomo's pet donkey Cristina, who endured a painful existence under the reign of a simpleton who was once outwitted by a box of matches. Let's face it, if you pick this setup for those players, you're not thinking well. I've only seen 90 minutes of Chelsea under Lamps, and for at least half of that I was watching Chernobyl, but I'm calling it: Lamps, toilet manager.

Finally, whoever declined 60m for Willian and signed Kovačić for 40m pounds should be launched from a catapult at half time of the next home fixture. 

I'm calling it right now...…..... the truth is your real identity is cousin Giacomo's pet donkey Cristina and I claim my five pounds.

 

 

I'd take a box of matches for Willian though.....

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4 hours ago, Munkworth said:

I’ve said it before but I much preferred how we looked in the 4-4-2 narrow diamond formation in pre season. It played better to the strengths of the players we had available, we looked more solid and are build up play was great. Until CHO is back I don’t think we’re strong enough on the wings to justify another formation. 

Very surprised Munk you;ve actually answered a question without resorting to terrible jokes. Sorry mate I was expecting you to say something like bog off 😀

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2 minutes ago, DannyVblue said:

The past 2 games (Liverpool and Leicester) we've played 4-3-3 with Jorginho in the middle and Kante on the right. Exactly the same as Sarri. Baffles me how some fans refuse to see what is in front of their face.

We only played 4-3-3 v lvpoo, yesterday was back to 4-2-3-1

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5 minutes ago, coco said:

We only played 4-3-3 v lvpoo, yesterday was back to 4-2-3-1

The TV companies might have had us down as a  4-2-3-1 formation, but we were definitely 4-3-3 yesterday. Jorginho was on his own in the midd;e with Kante pressing on the right-hand side with Mount pressing on the left.

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16 minutes ago, coco said:

I watched it mate and we were not 4-3-3, Kante and Jorginho were the two, Mount plays way in front of them.

I watched the game too and there is no way Kante was in a 2 with Jorginho in midfield.

Whoscored had it correct - https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1375940/Live/England-Premier-League-2019-2020-Chelsea-Leicester

Also check Mason and Kante's heat maps - Kante right and Mason left. Obviously the left midfielder is the attacking midfielder (as was with Sarri last year), so Mason's heat map is very slightly higher up the pitch than Kante, but as you will see, most of Mason's play was from the left and Kante on the right. I couldn't have had a better view of the pitch from East stand upper.

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3 minutes ago, DannyVblue said:

I watched the game too and there is no way Kante was in a 2 with Jorginho in midfield.

Whoscored had it correct - https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1375940/Live/England-Premier-League-2019-2020-Chelsea-Leicester

Also check Mason and Kante's heat maps - Kante right and Mason left. Obviously the left midfielder is the attacking midfielder (as was with Sarri last year), so Mason's heat map is very slightly higher up the pitch than Kante, but as you will see, most of Mason's play was from the left and Kante on the right. I couldn't have had a better view of the pitch from East stand upper.

I agree with coco here.

Kante was advanced a lot of the time because he likes to press but in our 4-3-3 formation we always had one midfielder tucking in beside Jorginho to form a midfield base when the other one went ahead to press.
Illustrated here:

When we go 4-2-3-1 it turns into a 4-1-4-1 when we press and when we go 4-3-3 it turns into a 4-2-4 like against Liverpool.

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5 minutes ago, DannyVblue said:

I watched the game too and there is no way Kante was in a 2 with Jorginho in midfield.

Whoscored had it correct - https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1375940/Live/England-Premier-League-2019-2020-Chelsea-Leicester

Also check Mason and Kante's heat maps - Kante right and Mason left. Obviously the left midfielder is the attacking midfielder (as was with Sarri last year), so Mason's heat map is very slightly higher up the pitch than Kante, but as you will see, most of Mason's play was from the left and Kante on the right. I couldn't have had a better view of the pitch from East stand upper.

Lets agree that it wasn't the same 4-3- we saw against lvpoo in terms of players and tactics, and at times yesterday we were all over the shop and completely gave up midfield for an hour.

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7 minutes ago, Sindre said:

I agree with coco here.

Kante was advanced a lot of the time because he likes to press but in our 4-3-3 formation we always had one midfielder tucking in beside Jorginho to form a midfield base when the other one went ahead to press.
Illustrated here:

When we go 4-2-3-1 it turns into a 4-1-4-1 when we press and when we go 4-3-3 it turns into a 4-2-4 like against Liverpool.

Yeah it felt like a 4-2-4 early in the game, then Leicester realised if they held the ball in midfield we would be buggered, which we were.

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8 minutes ago, Sindre said:

I agree with coco here.

Kante was advanced a lot of the time because he likes to press but in our 4-3-3 formation we always had one midfielder tucking in beside Jorginho to form a midfield base when the other one went ahead to press.
Illustrated here:

When we go 4-2-3-1 it turns into a 4-1-4-1 when we press and when we go 4-3-3 it turns into a 4-2-4 like against Liverpool.

Whatever the intended formation, Jorginho was isolated on his own in the middle without any support for pretty much the whole of the 2nd half. Kante wasn't next to him, Kante was pressing on the right. That's what I saw anyway.

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Just now, DannyVblue said:

Whatever the intended formation, Jorginho was isolated on his own in the middle without any support for pretty much the whole of the 2nd half. Kante wasn't next to him, Kante was pressing on the right. That's what I saw anyway.

Yes i agree with that. And thats my point, in 4-3-3 he would have one midfielder beside him for protection but yesterday he didn't a lot of the time because Kante went ahead to press. But Kante's "starting" position was next to Jorginho at the base for me.

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This thread is a compliment to how Lampard is already revolutionizing football tactics in Europe! He has only been in charge for 3 competitive games and he has already invented a new formation!

When our number 9 actually starts to finish the business and pulls the chain I can see a lot of lesser managers giving up the Christmas tree formation and adopting the toilet formation that Frank has invented.

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