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Chelsea vs Sheff Utd (PL) SATURDAY 31st Aug 15:00 GMT

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Team lacks a leader and none of today’s defenders was able to bring the ball out from the back properly. This is the one part of luiz that’s hard to replace, his eye for a long ball or a good ball to break up the oress. 

Giving up the goal just after half time was the problem, made us nervous. Then our passing was just a touch off. We might have scored 3-4 times in h2 but for a pass being a bit off or intercepted. 

‘When you play so many youngsters this will happen from time to time. 

‘Barkley did ok but if he plays there is no room for mason mount whoops  basically a passenger today. Very ineffective wide left. 

‘Personally I thought Willian looked good today and I’d have liked his width from the start. 

‘Two points dropped, dissapointing but before the season started we mostly would have expected halves like that. 

On the positive side , Tammy’s hold up play and his positional play is strong. I think on evidence to date he can make the grade. Also Tomori did ok. With Willian providing width, Barkley could have played a bit deeper and given us more options bringing the ball out. 

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Embarrassing result to say the least. The defence needs sorted out as soon as possible. I'm not sure if that's going to be by rudiger, kante and james coming back from injury or us hoping CAS grants our appeal and we can sign a defender in january. On a positive note I'm glad tammy scored again, Im hoping we might finally have a goalscorer now after two seasons of struggling for goals.

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14 minutes ago, ozboy said:

Team lacks a leader and none of today’s defenders was able to bring the ball out from the back properly.

I was actually thinking earlier that when Davis not on the pitch who takes the armband? For me it would have been David Luiz but that’s no longer an option. 

The only one I’d say has what it takes is Jorginho. 

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3 hours ago, Brutos said:

Transition season again so just enjoy it with the youths and Lamps in charge.
As long as we finish top 10 we will be fine, no CL unless we win it so attracting talent who wants CL will be difficult but Klopp and Pep had average first season's so Keep the faith a I know every game will be exciting in one way or another.
^^^^^^ This is me being optimistic as before I was told I was being negative so I am now looking on the bright side of things.........it can only get better it can't get any worst so onwards and upwards fellas

You still haven't answered my question i asked when i countered a post like this the first time.

If Arsenal can attract top talent out of the CL, why won't we be able to? 

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Billy Gilmore against hefty and physical sheffield united players when the game was on the edge? First, Jorginho should not be on that pitch after sixty minutes. Reason is so that we don't concede late goals like we did. He gets obviously tired after 60 minutes, he's not a physical player, and his position is the most important position when trying to defend. That means we get exposed. Premier league managers will notice this frailty in our team again and again, and all they will continue to do is to put three physically strong players in the midfield in the second half who will take over the midfield and either score the goals themselves or make sure their team scores the goals. We may struggle this season because of thesame Jorginho dilemma of last season. I watched Ndombele for Tottenham against Aston Villa. Kante alone is not enough for the defensive cover we need in the midfield. In the best days of Chelsea, when we had Makalele in the midfield, he was not able alone to protect us defensively in the midfield, we still needed to play Essien with him in the midfield. That means you need two very good defensive players in the midfield, one is not enough. That is the best thing to do in the midfield, especially in the premier league. Our best season with Kante was the season when Matic played with him in midfield. Kante's defensive ability alone is not enough to provide cover for us defensively in the midfield. That was the problem last season. Lampard has to study this and find a solution to it. Even when Kante comes back, as long as Jorginho is still the one playing the base of the midfield, we will still struggle this season especially in the champions league and in the premier league. Lampard should have taken Jorginho off today and brought in Christensen (I'm sure that is what mourinho would have done). Lampard himself said after the game that Christensen came play in the midfield. In the champions league and other games this season, as we have done at times in the past when we played David Luiz in the defensive midfield when we have a weakness in the defensive midfield, we need to work with either Reece James or Christensen (since we don't have another defensive midfielder) instead of Jorginho in the midfield to have two defensive players in the midfield. If not, all the efforts of our attacking players will always be jeopardized when we concede silly goals like we conceded today. Our defence will be OK when we play with James, Tomori, Rudiger and Emerson. So, the defence will be OK. But to sort the midfield, we need to be thinking of two defensively minded players like we did with Matic and Kante. Billy Gilmore today was a mistake when Christensen was on the bench. In the final minutes of the match and with the final substitution, when the opposition had a chance of grabbing an equaliser, I believe Christensen should have come on for Kovacic just to see out the game. Also, to be able to compete throughout 90 minutes against physical premier league sides, in the attacking positions, It is better to leave Barkley who is older and has more premier league experience on the pitch than to leave 20 year old Pulisic and Mason mount on the pitch. They get bullied by big premier league players and it eventually affect us defensively in the last minutes of the game when all the players have to defend as a group. They cannot defend the set pieces that may come in the end of a game. 

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8 minutes ago, hephzibah said:

Billy Gilmore against hefty and physical sheffield united players when the game was on the edge? First, Jorginho should not be on that pitch after sixty minutes. Reason is so that we don't concede late goals like we did. He gets obviously tired after 60 minutes, he's not a physical player, and his position is the most important position when trying to defend. That means we get exposed. Premier league managers will notice this frailty in our team again and again, and all they will continue to do is to put three physically strong players in the midfield in the second half who will take over the midfield and either score the goals themselves or make sure their team scores the goals. We may struggle this season because of thesame Jorginho dilemma of last season. I watched Ndombele for Tottenham against Aston Villa. Kante alone is not enough for the defensive cover we need in the midfield. In the best days of Chelsea, when we had Makalele in the midfield, he was not able alone to protect us defensively in the midfield, we still needed to play Essien with him in the midfield. That means you need two very good defensive players in the midfield, one is not enough. That is the best thing to do in the midfield, especially in the premier league. Our best season with Kante was the season when Matic played with him in midfield. Kante's defensive ability alone is not enough to provide cover for us defensively in the midfield. That was the problem last season. Lampard has to study this and find a solution to it. Even when Kante comes back, as long as Jorginho is still the one playing the base of the midfield, we will still struggle this season especially in the champions league and in the premier league. Lampard should have taken Jorginho off today and brought in Christensen (I'm sure that is what mourinho would have done). Lampard himself said after the game that Christensen came play in the midfield. In the champions league and other games this season, as we have done at times in the past when we played David Luiz in the defensive midfield when we have a weakness in the defensive midfield, we need to work with either Reece James or Christensen (since we don't have another defensive midfielder) instead of Jorginho in the midfield to have two defensive players in the midfield. If not, all the efforts of our attacking players will always be jeopardized when we concede silly goals like we conceded today. Our defence will be OK when we play with James, Tomori, Rudiger and Emerson. So, the defence will be OK. But to sort the midfield, we need to be thinking of two defensively minded players like we did with Matic and Kante. Billy Gilmore today was a mistake when Christensen was on the bench. In the final minutes of the match and with the final substitution, when the opposition had a chance of grabbing an equaliser, I believe Christensen should have come on for Kovacic just to see out the game. Also, to be able to compete throughout 90 minutes against physical premier league sides, in the attacking positions, It is better to leave Barkley who is older and has more premier league experience on the pitch than to leave 20 year old Pulisic and Mason mount on the pitch. They get bullied by big premier league players and it eventually affect us defensively in the last minutes of the game when all the players have to defend as a group. They cannot defend the set pieces that may come in the end of a game. 

You make some good points above, especially about having Jorginho in the middle when we are on the backfoot.

Our midfield of Kante and Matic did not actually work that well as Kante was often at one end of the pitch and the opposition just side stepped him which is why he was open to a switch to Utd. What saved us was our firepower up front meaning not many teams really tested our midfield that often.

Re Matic he has fallen out of favour this season for the reason I mention above, he is too slow once side-stepped.

 

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Easily our worst performance so far this season. First half was decent, probably didn't deserve the second goal. Second half was a disaster from kick off, completely unforgiven to give a goal like that after about 50 seconds. With some many young players on the field and lack of real leaders, we showed no maturity to close off the game. I think as a manager, Lampard has to take some responsibilities to come up with a game plan for stop their flow, they literally scored the same goal twice from the exact play. We were so short of numbers and lacking on the wings, and no change in shape or personnel to counter that. Again, same as players, manager will get better with time, so let's stop there. In the minutes, we had no idea whether to defend deep or press,  we had 3-4 pressing deep in their own half, and the rest staying deep in half, all it took was a good pass and we were carved up. Senior players like Azpi and Wilian did not lead at all, and that's hurting the team big times. We all know it will take time for young players to blend in, but it's no excuse for the seasoned players to let down.

 

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54 minutes ago, Strider6003 said:

You make some good points above, especially about having Jorginho in the middle when we are on the backfoot.

Our midfield of Kante and Matic did not actually work that well as Kante was often at one end of the pitch and the opposition just side stepped him which is why he was open to a switch to Utd. What saved us was our firepower up front meaning not many teams really tested our midfield that often.

Re Matic he has fallen out of favour this season for the reason I mention above, he is too slow once side-stepped.

 

But that doesn't change the fact that we need two defensively minded players in the midfield. 

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We can complain all we want about the defence, which looks awful, but a main issue is how we lose control of the midfield. Sheffield Utd, ffs, did dominate it the second half, a promoted team dominated us at home! For f**k sake! We know we are weak defensively, let's not lose control of the midfield!

Edited by RMH

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1 hour ago, Strider6003 said:

You make some good points above, especially about having Jorginho in the middle when we are on the backfoot.

Our midfield of Kante and Matic did not actually work that well as Kante was often at one end of the pitch and the opposition just side stepped him which is why he was open to a switch to Utd. What saved us was our firepower up front meaning not many teams really tested our midfield that often.

Re Matic he has fallen out of favour this season for the reason I mention above, he is too slow once side-stepped.

 

Then, Matic was not sold because of his performance that season, he was sold in the following season because we just bought a young player at that time (Bakayoko). We bought him to come and play alongside Kante. There has never been anytime when we wanted to leave Kante alone to do the defensive work in the midfield. It's because some guys don't understand. We got into this problem because Bakayoko flopped. If he had come out good for us, we wouldn't have bought Jorginho now.  We had to start looking for alternative because he flopped. That was why we sold Matic because he wanted to keep starting games and he cannot be starting games for us when we had already got Bakayoko that season, so he had to move. What Chelsea was considering at that time was that Matic was already getting old. We were considering the market, that if another club bought Bakayoko because we were waiting until Matic finally gets old, we may not get another player. Just like what happened with Courtois when we had to allow Cech to go because Courtois was too good to stay on the bench, we didn't want to lose Courtois to another team, and because Courtois will still have many more years to play, it is better to allow Cech who has just one or two years ahead of him to go to even a rival team, so Cech had to go. All we needed to do was to make the younger player happy because we could still get many years from him. But if we allow another team to get him because we wanted to keep an old player who has just two years left in him, it may not be wise. The same thing happened with Bakayoko and Matic. That was why Matic went to Man Utd. 

Edited by hephzibah

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8 hours ago, hephzibah said:

Seriously, nobody is talking about how defensively poor Aspi was for the two goals. They literally pumped the ball to his wing and used his wing. Reece James should replace this guy. 

Dave has had two bad games in a row, and he is getting slower as each season passes.  I don't see any leadership coming from him whatsoever on the pitch unlike JT  who would tear into players.  Very poor 2nd half especially in midfield where it all got ragged yet again, sloppy passing and losing shape continually.  I never thought we'd this bad defensively, whether its the back 4 or those in front I'm not sure but things have to improve.  3 out of the first 4 games have been winnable, but I guess 5 points from 12 is no more than expected.....still Utd are struggling also...so I guess things aren't that bad after all..

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On 25/08/2019 at 15:14, axman2526 said:

They are a good side and will surprise a few people this year. Chris Wilder has done a superb job with them and unlike the b*llsh*t master at Norwich he actually tells it like it is.

Hard game against an actually honest, hard working team.

I did warn you all. Naturally gut reaction as I expected on here calling them relegation fodder and a poor side.

But bottom line is they came out that second half with belief, desire and work ethic and it got them a deserved point. They wanted it far more than we did.

To be honest I believe they, like the foxes, deserved all 3 points.

Our 2 goals came because their keeper and then their defenders made pigs ears out of bread and butter plays. We made Henderson make one top save, just one!

Tammy had to do it all by himself once Barkley went off. His only decent supplier all game. Kovacic misplaced pass after pass, Pulisic offered nothing, Mount was none existant, Emersons link up play was poor.

Actually only players that can hold their heads high were Jorginho, who tried to get us going and was let down by the tripe around him, tomori who was our only semi decent defender, Barkley who actually looked a threat and Tammy. Rest were garbage today.

Frank got his subs wrong. Easy to say cause we lost the win late on right? Why oh why do we take Tammy off for Batman? If you are chasing a win and need a fox in the box you bring on batman, not to hold the ball up and link play. Has Frank not watched him play? Either leave tammy on or bring on Giroud ffs! 

One and only thing Kovacic was doing well was defend. We are defending so you take him off? Madness, put Gilmour on for Pulisic or Mount. 

And Willian. Yeah Willian...

2 dropped points but 1 more point than we deserved. That second half was shocking. Asleep at the restart and only 1 minute of attacking quality.

Fair play to the Blades. As I said a honest, hard working team that will surprise a few this season. Top manager that Chris Wilder I reckon.

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8 hours ago, Argo said:

You still haven't answered my question i asked when i countered a post like this the first time.

If Arsenal can attract top talent out of the CL, why won't we be able to? 

"Attracting talent that wants CL will be difficult"

Seems like a fair enough assessment to me. Not saying it will be impossible but that it will be difficult. Arsenal managed it but you'd imagine it was still a hard sell. Either that or the players they brought in weren't fussed about CL.

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3 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Tammy had to do it all by himself once Barkley went off. His only decent supplier all game. Kovacic misplaced pass after pass.

Actually only players that can hold their heads high were Jorginho, tomori who was our only semi decent defender, Barkley who actually looked a threat and Tammy. Rest were garbage .

One and only thing Kovacic was doing well was defend. 

Good post and agree with most of it (edited above because it was quite long).

The Kovacic / Barkley thing though? Going on yesterdays game alone I don't know how you can say Barkley was that much better than Kovacic.

I thought Barkley was poor in the first half but coming into it towards the end. I even said at halftime that I thought Tomori, Kovacic and Abraham were our better players.

Edited by DP2

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Very unsatisfactory.

Frank's subs were naive (you shouldn't IMO bring on very young kids when you're clinging onto a lead, plus Kovacic was helping us monopolise possession in the centre of the park, which is what was needed), and I do think that he should have sought to monopolise possession more than he did in the second half, but I think this match was compromised by some questionable selections.

Christensen is more suitable for a possession-oriented system than Zouma is, so unless the former had some sort of fitness problem I'm not sure why you'd select the latter.

RE Zouma, I was impressed with his performance versus Liverpool and he wasn't too bad versus Leicester, so I had hoped that he was learning how to play in that system, but that hope was obviously misplaced. Maybe he can only play particularly well when Kante can shield him to some degree against oncoming attackers, so he has fewer opportunities to make poor decisions in defence.  

I'm happy to give Frank a chance, but if we're still conceding goals and blowing wins against obviously inferior opposition after 10 games I'll be worried, because I doubt that we'll play that much better against superior opposition unless Frank completely changes his setup, like he did versus Liverpool. 

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19 minutes ago, DaRick said:

 

I'm happy to give Frank a chance, but if we're still conceding goals and blowing wins against obviously inferior opposition after 10 games I'll be worried

He hasn't had a chance though has he ? Next season will be his chance, not after 10 games or 38 games. This season, (with the exceptional circumstances of a transfer ban coupled with losing our best player in his prime), the manager is untouchable.

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2 minutes ago, coco said:

He hasn't had a chance though has he ? Next season will be his chance, not after 10 games or 38 games. This season, (with the exceptional circumstances of a transfer ban coupled with losing our best player in his prime), the manager is untouchable.

I agree that Frank has far more latitude than another manager would, and he would deserve such even if he wasn't a club legend.

That said, I maintain that if our form/results are anywhere near (say) 2015-16 standard after 10 games, that doesn't augur well. 

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15 hours ago, Wearyourblue said:

Thought he did the best of the 3 subs to be honest, the drop off from Tammy to Bats was painful.

It is not that he played particularly bad or anything more the overall experience is missing on how to handle a narrow lead. To give assurence to teammates because as a youngster you want to impress more so than a senior player and we needed someone to calm down the game. 

I dont think it was the right decision under those circumstances. 

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Glad I stayed away from here last night. Looks like the hyperventilation meter was set to eleven. 

Had another look at the game. Great for Tammy. Loved Kovacic's game again too. A few slips that are understandable from a young team and manager. Nothing that isn't fixable. 

I'm not sure why everyone thought we would be  able to play youth and have an inexperienced manager and things just work as normal. There will be mistakes and days like this. But with Kante, Rudiger, CHO, RLC and Pedro all out (all of whom are close to first team starters) we shouldn't be too worried. Onwards and upwards for Super Frank and the Baby Blues!

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12 hours ago, hephzibah said:

Billy Gilmore against hefty and physical sheffield united players when the game was on the edge? First, Jorginho should not be on that pitch after sixty minutes. Reason is so that we don't concede late goals like we did. He gets obviously tired after 60 minutes, he's not a physical player, and his position is the most important position when trying to defend. That means we get exposed. Premier league managers will notice this frailty in our team again and again, and all they will continue to do is to put three physically strong players in the midfield in the second half who will take over the midfield and either score the goals themselves or make sure their team scores the goals. We may struggle this season because of thesame Jorginho dilemma of last season. I watched Ndombele for Tottenham against Aston Villa. Kante alone is not enough for the defensive cover we need in the midfield. In the best days of Chelsea, when we had Makalele in the midfield, he was not able alone to protect us defensively in the midfield, we still needed to play Essien with him in the midfield. That means you need two very good defensive players in the midfield, one is not enough. That is the best thing to do in the midfield, especially in the premier league. Our best season with Kante was the season when Matic played with him in midfield. Kante's defensive ability alone is not enough to provide cover for us defensively in the midfield. That was the problem last season. Lampard has to study this and find a solution to it. Even when Kante comes back, as long as Jorginho is still the one playing the base of the midfield, we will still struggle this season especially in the champions league and in the premier league. Lampard should have taken Jorginho off today and brought in Christensen (I'm sure that is what mourinho would have done). Lampard himself said after the game that Christensen came play in the midfield. In the champions league and other games this season, as we have done at times in the past when we played David Luiz in the defensive midfield when we have a weakness in the defensive midfield, we need to work with either Reece James or Christensen (since we don't have another defensive midfielder) instead of Jorginho in the midfield to have two defensive players in the midfield. If not, all the efforts of our attacking players will always be jeopardized when we concede silly goals like we conceded today. Our defence will be OK when we play with James, Tomori, Rudiger and Emerson. So, the defence will be OK. But to sort the midfield, we need to be thinking of two defensively minded players like we did with Matic and Kante. Billy Gilmore today was a mistake when Christensen was on the bench. In the final minutes of the match and with the final substitution, when the opposition had a chance of grabbing an equaliser, I believe Christensen should have come on for Kovacic just to see out the game. Also, to be able to compete throughout 90 minutes against physical premier league sides, in the attacking positions, It is better to leave Barkley who is older and has more premier league experience on the pitch than to leave 20 year old Pulisic and Mason mount on the pitch. They get bullied by big premier league players and it eventually affect us defensively in the last minutes of the game when all the players have to defend as a group. They cannot defend the set pieces that may come in the end of a game. 

computer-enter-key-finger-pressing-260nw

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4 hours ago, VictorMosesLawn said:

"Attracting talent that wants CL will be difficult"

Seems like a fair enough assessment to me. Not saying it will be impossible but that it will be difficult. Arsenal managed it but you'd imagine it was still a hard sell. Either that or the players they brought in weren't fussed about CL.

But it's not actually as hard as people say it is. 

Last time we were out of it Jorginho, Kovacic and Sarri all gave up CL football to join us and the time before that we pulled one of the biggest coups of the decade again from a CL club while convincing Luiz to give up CL football to return here. United have signed Zlatan, Di Maria and Pogba while out of the CL and Arsenal have built there fearsome front three while playing Thursday nights.

We won't be able to get the very top players like an Mbappe, but that would have been the case anyway.

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1 hour ago, Spiller86 said:

Glad I stayed away from here last night. Looks like the hyperventilation meter was set to eleven. 

Had another look at the game. Great for Tammy. Loved Kovacic's game again too. A few slips that are understandable from a young team and manager. Nothing that isn't fixable. 

I'm not sure why everyone thought we would be  able to play youth and have an inexperienced manager and things just work as normal. There will be mistakes and days like this. But with Kante, Rudiger, CHO, RLC and Pedro all out (all of whom are close to first team starters) we shouldn't be too worried. Onwards and upwards for Super Frank and the Baby Blues!

Great post. A bit of perspective people.

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7 hours ago, DP2 said:

Good post and agree with most of it (edited above because it was quite long).

The Kovacic / Barkley thing though? Going on yesterdays game alone I don't know how you can say Barkley was that much better than Kovacic.

I thought Barkley was poor in the first half but coming into it towards the end. I even said at halftime that I thought Tomori, Kovacic and Abraham were our better players.

Good question. Kovacic from a defensive standpoint was solid, from an offensive one (where for me he was given more freedom than Jorginho to do so) he was appalling imo. One run that surprise surprise goes wide of the target, almost every pass missed the mark in the final third, especially the second half. 

He and Jorginho should switch when teamed together. Kova deeper Jorginho more forward as he can pass and he can score the odd goal.

As for Barkley he linked up play the best of our midfield for me. He created the situation for goal one. Pulisic and mount were not threats, Ross was and linked well with Tammy. Mount and Pulisic should have gone off for Willian and Gilmour.

Just how I saw it.

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