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Chelsea v Valencia (CL) Tue 17th Sep 20:00 GMT

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3 minutes ago, sonic90 said:

He's diffusing the situation I think, no way there are 2 players challenging him if he was designated pen taker. Still right thing to do to brush it under the carpet in front of the media and sort it out behind closed doors

I would agree - it's just that he seemed so genuine! Oscar worthy performance if that is the case haha. 

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12 minutes ago, coco said:

Nothing wrong with being half empty when your in the middle of a desert and need drink, but not when your club is rebuilding with academy players.

It would be less frustrating if it was the academy players were the ones letting us down. The problem is, it’s the more senior players that are letting us down - that’s what winds me up anyway. The academy boys like Mount, Tammy, Fik are actually our best players so far this season.

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10 minutes ago, coco said:

Nothing wrong with being half empty when your in the middle of a desert and need drink, but not when your club is rebuilding with academy players.

Like Giroud, Alonso, Willian, Pedro. Barkley, Aspi, Kova, Jorginho. This was a terrible performance no getting away from it and if we play like this on Sunday we are going to get spanked. Injuries don't help but we should be more than capable of beating Valencia.

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Frank is quite clear that Barkley is ONE of the penalty takers. We don’t know for sure how the system works if there is a designated taker or not. Frank pretty much diffused it anyway. 

Very frustrating that he missed it and I’m glad he’s showed the initiative. Unfortunately he missed it and it’s cost us. Truth is we had another 80 odd minutes to win the game and we didn’t. 

On Barkley though - I fear it is a make or break season for him. He’s 26, not a young promising player. He needs to start delivering. 

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Frank is clearly covering for Barkley. Given there was even a small argument between Willian and Barkley convinces me that Ross isn't the designated penalty taker.

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Disappointed with the result however looking at the bigger picture European success is low on my priority list for this season especially if the transfer ban is upheld we are already suffering from most clubs would call an injury crisis, we need proper depth if going to be competitive in all competitions.

As for the penalty I am a little old fashioned I would always give it to the centre forward. Good for their stats good for their confidence and if they miss more likelihood of them make amends sooner. 

Maybe Frank is trying to make Ross the new Frank  

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Although he’s had his fair amount of injuries since joining he has had enough opportunities to establish himself if he was good enough and he hasn’t taken them. Not going to throw him under the bus for the penalty debacle, although it annoys me, but he has been overtaken by others and is well down the pecking order as a starter when everyone is fit. 

Decent squad player at best.

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Barklay clearly took that penalty ahead of Jorginho. And he did it for purely selfish reasons. He’s sliding down the pecking order in midfield and wanted to stake a claim. He’s got no future at the club. And he knows it. Bloody awful penalty that might well end up costing us qualification. 

Poor from Frank tonight too. Surprised Pulisic didn’t come on ahead of Pedro who looked really off the pace. And I didn’t get the switch of Giroud for Zouma when we should probably have settled for a point. Valencia are no mugs, they sniffed an opportunity and took it. 

Our defending from free kicks was astonishingly naive. We were marking thin air while they played around us. Never seen anything like it at this level. 

Depressing to lose a game in that fashion. Hope Lampard learns fast. That was shambolic on all levels.

Edited by Socrates

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1 hour ago, Brutos said:

We got out foxed today we just have to get our heads up and go again...

Having been there, I think this succinct take is the best on here 

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1 hour ago, EdinburghBlue said:

It would be less frustrating if it was the academy players were the ones letting us down. The problem is, it’s the more senior players that are letting us down - that’s what winds me up anyway. The academy boys like Mount, Tammy, Fik are actually our best players so far this season.

This season, maybe. Tonight, no. tammy was v poor, control not good. But that’s completely understandable and normal for first CL outing.

 

19 minutes ago, Socrates said:

Barklay clearly took that penalty ahead of Jorginho. And he did it for purely selfish reasons. He’s sliding down the pecking order in midfield and wanted to stake a claim. He’s got no future at the club. And he knows it. Bloody awful penalty that might well end up costing us qualification. 

Poor from Frank tonight too. Surprised Pulisic didn’t come on ahead of Pedro who looked really off the pace. And I didn’t get the switch of Giroud for Zouma when we should probably have settled for a point. Valencia are no mugs, they sniffed an opportunity and took it. 

Our defending from free kicks was astonishingly naive. We were marking thin air while they played around us. Never seen anything like it at this level. 

Depressing to lose a game in that fashion. Hope Lampard learns fast. That was shambolic on all levels.

Broadly agree. Really naive all round, and I was also especially puzzled by the Giroud for Zouma sub. Am prepared to cut them all some slack though and put it down to lack of experience, first CL outing for so many of them  etc 

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3 hours ago, bluedave said:

We were the better team by far. Sloppy defending again for their goal (I don’t recall them threatening to score much before or after that) and Barkley’s penalty miss were unfortunately the deciding moments. All the people saying it was a poor performance and we got what we deserve are talking out their arses and have clearly not been watching us long enough to have seen a genuinely poor performance.

Yeah I don't understand a lot of the negativity, we should have won but didn't. 

Barkley stepped up and wanted his moment, it didn't go his way... Oh well. I have my complaints about the lack of leadership and organisation in this side though, set piece defending especially, but other than that I'm actually happy with what I saw. Playing CL football midweek is always a different experience from playing league games and Valencia aren't bums. 

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2 hours ago, Socrates said:

Barklay clearly took that penalty ahead of Jorginho. And he did it for purely selfish reasons. He’s sliding down the pecking order in midfield and wanted to stake a claim. He’s got no future at the club. And he knows it. Bloody awful penalty that might well end up costing us qualification. 

Poor from Frank tonight too. Surprised Pulisic didn’t come on ahead of Pedro who looked really off the pace. And I didn’t get the switch of Giroud for Zouma when we should probably have settled for a point. Valencia are no mugs, they sniffed an opportunity and took it. 

Our defending from free kicks was astonishingly naive. We were marking thin air while they played around us. Never seen anything like it at this level. 

Depressing to lose a game in that fashion. Hope Lampard learns fast. That was shambolic on all levels.

Is Lampard really that much at fault? In hindsight it's easy to criticise the substitions, but each one of them makes sense. Pedro has the experience to dig games out, he's a hit and miss player (mostly miss these days unfortunately) but sometimes he's one of our most important players when he's on form, I can totally see why he was picked ahead. 

Barkley's not so much at fault it's the lack of leadership in the team, he wants to prove himself, I don't think that's a problem, if he scored it would have been a completely different story. And his substitution made sense, but from his perspective I can't truly blame him, and it's what you expect from players who want to prove themselves. 

Giroud was a big gamble but we are taking a different approach this season, he wants to win the game, had we defended the set piece properly and not conceded such a sloppy goal we could have given Valencia a very tough 15 minutes on the offensive with Tammy and Giroud up top. 

As for the set piece defending I couldn't agree more, what on earth is going on there? It needs to be addressed quickly, we are already conceding too many goals from open play as it is, the last thing we need to be doing is defending set pieces like this. 

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I think this kind of result will be something we'll need to get used to this season. Frank's very new to Management and as much as I love his appointment - he is still learning the trade. He'll eventually learn how to kill off a game and the ability to grind out results, but that'll all come in time.

We also need to realize that we are playing with a very young squad (of which I'm really excited about) and getting those kind of results I mentioned above, also comes with having experience on the field. It's exciting to watch Lamps grow as a Manager along with our Academy boys who are finally getting their much deserved chance! 

 

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Only the Champions league, no big deal.

 

Cannot say I missed all the cheating, rolling about, getting in the refs face etc.

Nor have I missed Pedro and Willian producing nothing at all for the whole game.

Great bring on Giroud to try and win, but where does he get supply from Frank? Willian? Pedro? Barkley? Tammy had scrapes all game from these players who just simply are not the standard we need.

You binned off Luiz. That was a good call. Please bin off Pedro, Willian and Barkley. They suck the fun out of watching the game.

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7 hours ago, goose said:

Although he’s had his fair amount of injuries since joining he has had enough opportunities to establish himself if he was good enough and he hasn’t taken them. Not going to throw him under the bus for the penalty debacle, although it annoys me, but he has been overtaken by others and is well down the pecking order as a starter when everyone is fit. 

Decent squad player at best.

He's the same player he was at Everton. When fit he is okay, but only ever a squad player. Doesn't have the speed of thought for the next level.

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3 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Only the Champions league, no big deal.

 

Cannot say I missed all the cheating, rolling about, getting in the refs face etc.

Nor have I missed Pedro and Willian producing nothing at all for the whole game.

Great bring on Giroud to try and win, but where does he get supply from Frank? Willian? Pedro? Barkley? Tammy had scrapes all game from these players who just simply are not the standard we need.

You binned off Luiz. That was a good call. Please bin off Pedro, Willian and Barkley. They suck the fun out of watching the game.

You might be being a little harsh but i generally agree with what you have put here. If we are running with a group of young inexperienced players there must be a blend of experience in there as well. That experience needs to be leaders one and all to take charge when the hits start comig and to keep confidence in the group of youngsters during the ebb and flow of the match.

Other than Kaiser Rudi we just don't have that. Willian only ever plays for himself, Pedro i like generally but he's just so hot and cold, sh*t hot one week, just sh*t the next. Alonso, Giroud, Dave, these are just not leaders. Jorginho is a good communicator but not a leader in my book, or else Barkley would never have had the chance to take that penalty last night. For Jorginho to have continued to take the penalties all through the media and fans sh*tstorm over that silly little bunny hop of his when it was going wrong, tells me he is the penalty taker, so Frank's comments last night for me was just taking the heat out of the media that's all.

We desparetly need Rudi back. We need Kante, not a verbal leader but christ i'd follow him into battle simply because you can see with his whole body language he will never fail.

And we need the ban to be lifted. Not to change our new identity. God no. I want Mount, Abraham, James, Tomori, Pulisic, RLC, CHO, Zouma and Christensen being the bedrock but i'll admit i was casting covetous glances at Kondogbia last night. A midfield general in there galvanising the youngsters whenwe lose our focus and direction is what i think we are missing at the moment.

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Watching the goal again, I don't know what is going on with our defensive organisation, or who is supposed to be doing what, but the goal comes from where the right back ought to be (imo) and Dave is at least 12 yards away, and seems to be leaving all the right side defending responsibility to Tammy and Jorginho ...  perhaps he overlooked that the right-sided centre back had just been substituted and we'd changed formation ....

Goal.thumb.jpg.0b770b75d9c509ff02c8bae920cb12eb.jpg

Either way, we have 9 players in the box to their 6 ... no way a runner should be able to make all that ground with no-one following him, or in that zone.

Edited by Sexyfootball

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4 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

Watching the goal again, I don't know what is going on with our defensive organisation, or who is supposed to be doing what, but the goal comes from where the right back ought to be (imo) and Dave is at least 12 yards away, and seems to be leaving all the right side defending responsibility to Tammy and Giroud ...  perhaps he overlooked that the right-sided centre back had just been substituted ....

Goal.thumb.jpg.0b770b75d9c509ff02c8bae920cb12eb.jpg

 

Frank had just that very moment taken Zouma off and he was defending the right hand side. I assume Dave was meant to be at right back with Christensen the right centre back. They didn't adapt immediately. It's a rough set of circumstances but that's how you concede goals. I don't know if Valencia did it deliberately, having seen Zouma had been removed, or if it was just another training ground routine. It did appear they had been working on set pieces.

We need to do the same but from a defensive viewpoint.

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I had dreams of throttling Ross Barkley last night. Willian should have taken it. And where was Azpi during this fiasco? He's never been convincing as Captain material to me from the off. 

But we're a young team on the re-build with promise, and I don't honestly expect us to get out of this CL group, now that we've lost this game against our 'easiest' opponents. 

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9 hours ago, dansubrosa said:

Results like this always was coming. Let’s just enjoy the ride.

I think that this season was always to be a learning curve all be it, a very steep one for Frank and many of the younger players.

It might  be, no it already has been frustrating for us.

To be a Chelsea supporter eh...:biggrin:

Edited by erskblue

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You simply cant lose your first home game in the CL and expect a smooth ride, I'd prefer if we finish 4th in the group rather than sink in to the EL.

Lampard and his bizarre subs, among other things, have cost us 3 home wins already this season.

That result was bad but the performance of the team and a few individuals was poisonous.

It makes a trip to Lille in 2 weeks time a must win game, we follow that up with an Ajax double header, first game is away in Amsterdam, in those 3 games, if we dont take at least 6 points, we're done for in the group stages already.

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What was so frustrating about their goal was the warning signs were there, they worked 2 corners short and got 2 shots off previously to the free kick goal, both were well worked routines but they got shots off from 18 yards out without anybody closing them down. 

We simply cant defend, no matter who plays in the back line, theres no resolve in this side, theyre far too soft.

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