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Chelsea v Man Utd (LC) Wed 30th Oct 20:05 GMT

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2 hours ago, abramovich said:

It's not a knee-jerk reaction. It's not based on this match alone and I'm sure I'm not the only one who noticed that about him.

 

I'm another who's been saying exactly the same thing about him.

He can create space to put in a cross, but against decent Premiership teams he does not take on defenders and beat them. Some are saying he's lost a couple of yards of pace as well now, so if that is the case he's going to find it difficult at this level. 

However, it's still early days for him, so i think by the end of next season we'll have a better idea if he's going to make it or not.

 

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3 hours ago, abramovich said:

It's not a knee-jerk reaction. It's not based on this match alone and I'm sure I'm not the only one who noticed that about him.

There's nothing embarassing about voicing an opinion. He's a major talent who has to play a whole lot better to justify a starting spot on the team, his age is irrelevant. If you're good enough, you're old enough. Haven't we all spent years here hoping our talented youth to get a chance? So now that they do, we should ignore their flaws?

I support your opinion.

How does CHO get a free pass into the starting XI and can avoid criticism when he plays like garbage, but Pulisic doesn't?

I'd argue that Pulisic should have more leniency because he is coming into a new league.

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2 hours ago, coco said:

I think the fact united are desperate at the moment for anything, its no surprise they wanted it a bit more, let them eat scraps.

They're acting as if they've already won the cup after this win sadly

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We depend too much on Alonso in this type of situations. It's ok-ish to expect your LB to be active in modern football but I mean come on, we'd been trying to find him since 1-2, long balls, one-two, regular passes. All of it towards Marcos. Considering it's his 2131231823123 match in a row without rest, they put a personal man to press him the entire time, since minute 1, it's no surprise that they closed us. Somebody else should step up too. 

Edited by Droopy

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9 hours ago, Sindre said:

As a LB Alonso is probably one of the worst we've had in the Roman-era. Absolute horror-show.

As a defender, one of the worst.....as an attacking defender he's a bit better than mediocre ...this is one area of the team that we badly need to strengthen if we have a chance in January.

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8 hours ago, just said:

I know. Me and Dean should do this more often. 

We should. Ok, to elaborate, I  think it’s odd to single out Kovacic in this game. It seems you just can’t let go of your bias and pass up an opportunity to have a go. He put in a mediocre performance but hardly the worst of our players and not really a talking point in the context of his overall significant improvement this season, which you yourself acknowledge. You criticise him for lack of contribution in the final third, when it’s not really his role. If you’re going to criticise Kova for this you should be absolutely lambasting those whose role it is - ie our front line. You don’t give Kova enough credit for what he does well - his close control, first touch, ability to keep the ball, dribbling etc, which are no small attributes. In some of these he’s as good as anyone in the league. Yet you choose to focus on his shooting. 

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Kind of good that Lampard has said that top 4 and CL are the clubs priorities this year. He’s right and important we don’t waste our energies on the league cup. It’s not important in the grand scheme of things. 
 

With the ban and losing hazard, achieving top 4 alone would be an incredible achievement. 

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I don’t get why we went back to starting with the ‘ pass, pass, pass, pass back to the keeper, pass, pass ......................for 45 min. then come out and play like we usually do from the start.

Pedro and Alonso really don’t cut it anymore.

Cho. really disappointing.

f**k man u 

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Hate it when we lose and actually thought we'd a real chance of beating Man Utd last night and then going on and winning the Cup itself.

I'll now give credit where it is due. Rashford free kick goal was a fantastic goal.

Still hate losing though.

Not the greatest ever analysis of a game ,from me.

 

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So many Man U fans dont want anybody to say they have a very top top player in Rashford. Everybody can see it yesternight with that free kick and again it shows he is an outrageous player. Man U are a very rich club, i think the richest club in the world, so, they have a very very GOOD squad. its just that they bought a SPECIFIC TYPE OF PLAYERS, and they are playing a SPECIFIC TYPE OF KILLER FOOTBALL that they want to play. People need to start respecting them. they only had a little problem with injuries this season, they have a very good team. Their level is simply too high for Chelsea at the moment. thats why they've beating us twice this season.

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No real complaints to be honest. We weren't great but neither were they and we were beaten by a wonder goal that 9 times out of 10 ends up in the shed end. 

It was definitely a pen on James and you could see from a mile away that Alonso was going to make a rash challenge there.

Batshuayi did really well for the goal and then had an almost identical chance 2 or 3 minutes later and unfortunately lost his footing.

Gilmour was not great but last night playing against a strong premier league side will have been a massive learning curve for him.

It's a shame because i think Lamps would have secretly been looking at this as a realistic chance of silverware. 

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So many Man U fans dont want anybody to say they have a very top top player in Rashford. Everybody can see it yesternight with that free kick and again it shows he is an outrageous player. Man U are a very rich club, i think the richest club in the world, so, they have a very very GOOD squad. its just that they bought a SPECIFIC TYPE OF PLAYERS, and they are playing a SPECIFIC TYPE OF KILLER FOOTBALL that they want to play. People need to start respecting them. they only had a little problem with injuries this season, they have a very good team. Their level is simply too high for Chelsea at the moment. thats why they've beating us twice this season.
Right...

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Very disappointing result and performance.

The work rate had visibly dropped from the previous two matches despite a few new starters. We weren't able to pass out from the back and ended up playing long balls. This may have something to do with Kepa not being in goal but too many times Utd prevented us from getting the ball safely from defence into the midfield let alone the final third. We huffed and puffed for a while in the second half but I felt Utd had set up to nullify us in the middle of the field and they succeeded. McTominay was effective for them and we didn't have a player to trouble him enough.

Individually I could obviously single out Alonso and Pedro for their very bad performances but I was also disappointed with CHO. He comes with a big reputation and pay packet but didn't live up to it. I've noticed his trick to get round players only involves a tiny ball shift before he sets off. To get round a player doing this you really have to have bullet acceleration whereas if you shift the ball away from the player a bit more you don't. When Willian does this he moves the ball away a bit more and then pulls away himself. CHO may have lost a bit of pace through lack of match fitness and injury but whatever it is I think Frank will have to keep him on the bench for now and watch him closely in training. His shot on goal last night should have gone in. It was probably our best chance all night. I can't say I saw one decent performance from any Chelsea player and we lacked energy. This current team play their best when they are moving the ball quickly and pressing high. This requires a lot of energy and when that drops so does the reward.

To be honest I thought Utd were the better organised team and they had control for most of the game even when we were in possession. We couldn't break them down enough and they weathered our short spell in the second half quite well.

The only positive I can take from the game is that a number of young players will have learned how much losing hurts at this level and that their levels don't have to drop much for them to lose a game. This should be an incentive to raise the levels again.

COYB

 

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Bit of a DeJavu, we were looking good and Alonso lost the ball, ended up make it a lot worse with a bad tackle from the side, when the central defender was actually blocking the attacker from cutting inside. We missed a couple of good chances, and out of nothing Rashford scored a good goal and knocked us out. I can't fault Lampard for fielding that team, he would have rested a few more if we had more players available. The young players had their match and learning experience, no way another manager would have played them. They didnt look out of the race at all, no doubt the game will benefit them for season and years to come. It's unlikey we are going on a long winning streak with the injury and youth players we got, I rather lose this than a league or CL group game, to be honest.

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3 hours ago, Dean said:

We should. Ok, to elaborate, I  think it’s odd to single out Kovacic in this game. It seems you just can’t let go of your bias and pass up an opportunity to have a go. He put in a mediocre performance but hardly the worst of our players and not really a talking point in the context of his overall significant improvement this season, which you yourself acknowledge. You criticise him for lack of contribution in the final third, when it’s not really his role. If you’re going to criticise Kova for this you should be absolutely lambasting those whose role it is - ie our front line. You don’t give Kova enough credit for what he does well - his close control, first touch, ability to keep the ball, dribbling etc, which are no small attributes. In some of these he’s as good as anyone in the league. Yet you choose to focus on his shooting. 

Dean I think you are looking for something that isn't there. I haven't singled Kovacic out. I think he has improved this season and is a good squad option. But he still is extremely poor in and around the opposition box.

I also think he is not in our best XI when everyone is fit and available. The attributes you mention for him there, I think Kante and RLC are better at all of them. No bias. No agenda. It really is that simple.

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9 hours ago, coco said:

Another of your posts ii'll be able to draw upon in the future.:wink:

Should I quote yours in the Abraham thread every game Tammy doesn't score or here whenever CHO's having a poor game? All I'm doing is telling the way I see it, and from the looks of it, I'm not the only one. 

When our players do well, I praise them, when they don't, I criticize them. And I realize their age and inexperience should be taking into consideration, only up to a certain degree.

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Just now, abramovich said:

Should I quote yours in the Abraham thread every game Tammy doesn't score or here whenever CHO's having a poor game? All I'm doing is telling the way I see it, and from the looks of it, I'm not the only one. 

When our players do well, I praise them, when they don't, I criticize them. And I realize their age and inexperience should be taking into consideration, only up to a certain degree.

Whilst you have the freedom to criticise any Chelsea player you like, i have that freedom to criticise any other fans opinion if i think it is unfair and harsh.

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12 hours ago, Amputechture said:

Definitely needs to work on his finishing, of that there is no question. Just found it bizarre that you brought up his ability to beat a man one on one when that was clearly one of his biggest strengths prior to a horrific injury that he is yet to fully recover from.

And his age is definitely not irrelevant. He's 18. Hasn't been a regular in the first team prior to this season and when you take that and his injury into account, surely it's not too much to ask to give him the benefit of the doubt and at the very least have some patience?

Oh, I'll be patient with him and will wait and hope he'll develop into one of our best players. But in the meantime I reserve the right to call his performances sh*t when they warrant it, and the other way around.

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2 hours ago, hephzibah said:

So many Man U fans dont want anybody to say they have a very top top player in Rashford. Everybody can see it yesternight with that free kick and again it shows he is an outrageous player. Man U are a very rich club, i think the richest club in the world, so, they have a very very GOOD squad. its just that they bought a SPECIFIC TYPE OF PLAYERS, and they are playing a SPECIFIC TYPE OF KILLER FOOTBALL that they want to play. People need to start respecting them. they only had a little problem with injuries this season, they have a very good team. Their level is simply too high for Chelsea at the moment. thats why they've beating us twice this season.

He's a good player, but nowhere near being world class. Also, most of his free kicks are crap, yet against us he became prime Ronaldo at taking it. 

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Thought we did ok, United probably more up for it. 

I think McTominay is turning into a good player for them. Big, likes to rough it up and decent on the ball. Type of player we could do with at times, last night being one of them.

Disappointed to go out but good to see some fringe players get time and there was nothing really between the 2 teams even with United at full strength. 

Bring on Watford. Up the Chels.

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13 hours ago, loz said:
13 hours ago, just said:
Don't get me wrong Loz I thought he was truly dreadful last season, (apart from 15 minutes in the final against Le Arsenal), and I was 100% against us buying him in the summer. However, he has definitely improved this season and I'm now glad he is in the squad. But IMO he is still not good enough to keep out a fit Kante or RLC. 

Agreed. Despite the transfer ban I was for letting him go. But I think Lampard's different philosophy has benefited him but he is still behind four players for one of the three midfield places. If he is happy to play a supportive role (like Mikel was) then I would be happy to keep him but he is never a week in week out starter.

I think you might have hit on something there Loz.

Some folk seem to think Kovacic is the best thing since sliced bread (like many did with Mikel) whereas others (of which I am one) are often left scratching our heads.

 

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I think you might have hit on something there Loz.
Some folk seem to think Kovacic is the best thing since sliced bread (like many did with Mikel) whereas others (of which I am one) are often left scratching our heads.
 
That's head lice, easily treated...

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If we got outplayed I would be worried, but we didn't, we were the better team. 

It's a shame that our record against the big sides looks sh*t at the moment, but we've yet to play the likes of Spurs, City and Arsenal yet. I hope we this doesn't start becoming a trend in the big games were we outplay them and they end up winning through clinical finishing, because it's happened twice against United and Liverpool now. 

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