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coco

Watford vs Chelsea (PL) Sat 2nd Nov 17:30 GMT

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Think Dave looks tvulnerable. Can’t fault the effort but we could use more in both defence and attack. Hopefully Kante can come in for Jorginho. Cho doesn’t really look quite the finished article yet. 

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17 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

I have come to two conclusions. One, it's easy to give a decision against Chelsea, nobody is going to kick up a fuss about it compared to other teams, and two, the refs are incompetent and make it up as they go along.

 

6567B6BA-F72E-4CD8-B2B5-F46BD718BE26.jpeg

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Does anybody genuinely sit around convinced that refs all get together and agree to be unfair to Chelsea? Really? You up on any forum for any club and all will have some fans claiming the same.

There is no conspiracy, there is no big bad institution picking on us, what there is are mistakes made and we have benefited from them in the past just as much as suffered from them.

P. S. David Elleray is a cheating c**t

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12 minutes ago, evissy said:

Watching the game I have very little respect for Deulofeu. Seems like a w**ker.

Yep, just like other certain other players before him - Nasri, Suarez, Ali etc - he is the sort of player you would be more than happy to see snapped in two by a well-timed tackle.

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17 minutes ago, loz said:

Does anybody genuinely sit around convinced that refs all get together and agree to be unfair to Chelsea? Really? You up on any forum for any club and all will have some fans claiming the same.

There is no conspiracy, there is no big bad institution picking on us, what there is are mistakes made and we have benefited from them in the past just as much as suffered from them.

P. S. David Elleray is a cheating c**t

Of course you are correct Loz but when you look at the CHO incident last game and then the one yesterday and see BOTH calls go against us it is easy for paranoia to set in!!

The way VAR is being implemented HAS to be reviewed and soon as I can see it causing a riot at this rate - it's a complete farce and is ruining the game as we know it.

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Of course you are correct Loz but when you look at the CHO incident last game and then the one yesterday and see BOTH calls go against us it is easy for paranoia to set in!!
The way VAR is being implemented HAS to be reviewed and soon as I can see it causing a riot at this rate - it's a complete farce and is ruining the game as we know it.
I'd get rid of it entirely and just go back to accepting mistakes happen and manning up. It's f**king terrible

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32 minutes ago, loz said:

Does anybody genuinely sit around convinced that refs all get together and agree to be unfair to Chelsea? Really? You up on any forum for any club and all will have some fans claiming the same.

There is no conspiracy, there is no big bad institution picking on us, what there is are mistakes made and we have benefited from them in the past just as much as suffered from them.

P. S. David Elleray is a cheating c**t

Nobody can convince me that we benefit more from mistakes as much as any other club. I would bet if you looked at the stats, it would show that we are the least favoured when it comes to VAR, which is pretty much what a load of people were predicting before the start of the season. It's been going on for years now, it's always a shock when we win a penalty because of the sheer amount of times they aren't given to us. 

I don't think the refs hate us and get together to be unfair to Chelsea, but I do think we are an easy club to give decisions against because nobody is going to kick up a fuss about it. Just look at the reaction when decisions go against Liverpool, United and Tottenham, the media always highlight it, the football pundits and radio shows are talking about how a ref has made a big mistake, but when it comes to Chelsea, the most that will happen is a little mention and they move on. The decisions that have gone against us because of VAR has been ridiculous, and we are only 10 league games into the season. We were even getting bad decisions when VAR was only being used in the cup games. If this was any other club, it would be highlighted more than it has been. Also, I can remember all of the times the media, commentators and pundits have gone mental when we win soft penalties. I remember how bad the reaction was after Ramires got a last minute penalty vs West Brom, to the point where the chief of referee's was pressured into apologising to West Brom over it. It was totally over the top and it feels like we have been paying for it ever since.

Edited by Scott Harris

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VAR OVERTURNS (NET SCORE)

 

Crystal Palace +3

Leicester City +3

Manchester United +2

Southampton +2

Brighton & Hove Albion +1

Burnley +1

Tottenham Hotspur +1

Watford +1

AFC Bournemouth 0

Liverpool 0

Newcastle 0

Arsenal -1

Everton -1

Manchester City -1

Norwich City -1

Sheffield United -1

West Ham -1

Aston Villa -2

Wolves -2

Chelsea -4

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/english-premier-league/story/3929823/how-var-decisions-have-affected-every-premier-league-club

 

It will be interesting to see how the table looks at the end of the season. This was before the ludicrous penalty decision.

 

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2 minutes ago, charierre said:

VAR OVERTURNS (NET SCORE)

 

Crystal Palace +3

Leicester City +3

Manchester United +2

Southampton +2

Brighton & Hove Albion +1

Burnley +1

Tottenham Hotspur +1

Watford +1

AFC Bournemouth 0

Liverpool 0

Newcastle 0

Arsenal -1

Everton -1

Manchester City -1

Norwich City -1

Sheffield United -1

West Ham -1

Aston Villa -2

Wolves -2

Chelsea -4

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/english-premier-league/story/3929823/how-var-decisions-have-affected-every-premier-league-club

 

It will be interesting to see how the table looks at the end of the season. This was before the ludicrous penalty decision.

 

This doesn't shock me at all, and it's actually even worse than this because these are just the VAR decisions that are getting overturned. It doesn't mention the ones that side with the refs original decision, like when Azpilicueta didn't get a penalty against Norwich.

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VAR OVERTURNS (NET SCORE)

 

Crystal Palace +3

Leicester City +3

Manchester United +2

Southampton +2

Brighton & Hove Albion +1

Burnley +1

Tottenham Hotspur +1

Watford +1

AFC Bournemouth 0

Liverpool 0

Newcastle 0

Arsenal -1

Everton -1

Manchester City -1

Norwich City -1

Sheffield United -1

West Ham -1

Aston Villa -2

Wolves -2

Chelsea -4

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/english-premier-league/story/3929823/how-var-decisions-have-affected-every-premier-league-club
 
It will be interesting to see how the table looks at the end of the season. This was before the ludicrous penalty decision.
 
Those stats are meaningless. If every decision was correct then nobody could complain. Ultimately VAR is supposed to reduce the number of errors but it will never eliminate them as there is still human judgement involved.

So we might be minus 4 but could we really complain if all the decisions were correct? Probably some still would.

Get rid of it. It's spoiling the game. Whenever you score you wait 30 seconds before celebrating now. It's sh*te. However if we get rid of it fans need to stop being babies when decisions go against them and be honest about the fact that decisions are also go our way.

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29 minutes ago, robdog said:

I have to share this story about the first goal here

 

With that goal and the assist, pretty much the motm with Zouma.

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25 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

Nobody can convince me that we benefit more from mistakes as much as any other club. I would bet if you looked at the stats, it would show that we are the least favoured when it comes to VAR, which is pretty much what a load of people were predicting before the start of the season. It's been going on for years now, it's always a shock when we win a penalty because of the sheer amount of times they aren't given to us. 

I don't think the refs hate us and get together to be unfair to Chelsea, but I do think we are an easy club to give decisions against because nobody is going to kick up a fuss about it. Just look at the reaction when decisions go against Liverpool, United and Tottenham, the media always highlight it, the football pundits and radio shows are talking about how a ref has made a big mistake, but when it comes to Chelsea, the most that will happen is a little mention and they move on. The decisions that have gone against us because of VAR has been ridiculous, and we are only 10 league games into the season. We were even getting bad decisions when VAR was only being used in the cup games. If this was any other club, it would be highlighted more than it has been. Also, I can remember all of the times the media, commentators and pundits have gone mental when we win soft penalties. I remember how bad the reaction was after Ramires got a last minute penalty vs West Brom, to the point where the chief of referee's was pressured into apologising to West Brom over it. It was totally over the top and it feels like we have been paying for it ever since.

Spot on Scott!

The West Brom story was just all kinds of wrong.

How did that conversation even go? "We are sorry Chelsea benfited from a bad decision against you"

Unheard of for them to even do that!

Did we get an apology when Suarez bit Ivan and then scored an equalizer a few minutes later? Of course we didn't!

 

 

FWIW I don't think that the refs plan to be unfair to Chelsea before matches, but when there is a 50/50 decision to be made during a match we undoubtedly lose more than we gain.

Liverpool on the other hand generally do well out of the 50/50 decisions and if a decision does go against them then there is a media investigation for that week and 'laws needs to changed'.

The Firmino offside yesterday has gathered serious momentum and it's gone from his shoulder that was offside to now his armpit was offside, because that clearly sounds more dramatic and deserves more sympathy.

I bet they get the next 50/50 decision.

 

I can't believe refs aren't swayed slightly, or even subconconciously about the fall out of certain incidents.

Does anyone rembember Costa's very first match at Burnley? Clear penalty but booked for diving, probably because the media was constantly talking about his antics in Spain before the season had even started.

Like I said previously I could understand it a bit more if the CHO incident and Deulofeu incident had resulted in penalties both weeks or bookings for diving both weeks, but what I class as similar incidents resulted in 2 decisons that were the extremes of each other, and guess which team got the rough end of the stick both weeks...

We are either a soft touch in thier eyes or it's a habit to only give major decisions our way if it's clear and obvious.

I'm fed up of it and it should be highlighted.

The fact is these 50/50 decisions have the ability to alter the outcome of football matches and we're lucky it hasn't cost us yet, but it will soon.

 

 

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1 hour ago, loz said:

Those stats are meaningless. If every decision was correct then nobody could complain. Ultimately VAR is supposed to reduce the number of errors but it will never eliminate them as there is still human judgement involved.

So we might be minus 4 but could we really complain if all the decisions were correct? Probably some still would.

Get rid of it. It's spoiling the game. Whenever you score you wait 30 seconds before celebrating now. It's sh*te. However if we get rid of it fans need to stop being babies when decisions go against them and be honest about the fact that decisions are also go our way.

The problem is when the system is being used on subjective decisions, three of ours against were just that. 

I'm at present watching Spurs get two decisions going their way, Son has clearly thrown himself to the ground not dissimilar to Delefou yesterday and failed to get a booking, though there was some contact. Dele has clearly handled a cross and after 2 minutes deliberation the decision was no penalty. I am totally against it being used on subjective decisions unless it is a review being done by the referee in charge at pitchside. 

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The problem is when the system is being used on subjective decisions, three of ours against were just that. 
I'm at present watching Spurs get two decisions going their way, Son has clearly thrown himself to the ground not dissimilar to Delefou yesterday and failed to get a booking, though there was some contact. Dele has clearly handled a cross and after 2 minutes deliberation the decision was no penalty. I am totally against it being used on subjective decisions unless it is a review being done by the referee in charge at pitchside. 
I'm opposed to it full stop however it was brought in to reduce the number of mistakes and it is achieving that. So theoretically fans should be happier as less errors are being made. However there is no of eliminating all mistakes.

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22 hours ago, BadBlue said:

Idiot.Foster just told BBC that he think a draw would have been a fair result. I haven't heard a more idiotic comment in years! We should have won this by 3-4 minimum 

To be fair to Foster he very warmly hugged and congrtulated Kepa at the end of the match. 

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The difference between how much contact in a tackle is enough for a player to go down, and how much is not enough, is impossible to fairly judge imo. A hand on the back, a brush of thighs, any kind of coming together is now scrutinised in macro. To me it feels like an impossible task, to try and make a grey area black and white, worse of all, is how long this scrutinisation takes. I was under the impression VAR would eliminate only the blatantly obvious cock ups, not involve microscopes and slide rules. 

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The difference between how much contact in a tackle is enough for a player to go down, and how much is not enough, is impossible to fairly judge imo. A hand on the back, a brush of thighs, any kind of coming together is now scrutinised in macro. To me it feels like an impossible task, to try and make a grey area black and white, worse of all, is how long this scrutinisation takes. I was under the impression VAR would eliminate only the blatantly obvious cock ups, not involve microscopes and slide rules. 
Which is where it is massively going wrong. Was supposed to be for obvious errors but it's being used for millimetre decisions and to make calls that need looked at 74 times

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2 minutes ago, loz said:
4 minutes ago, coco said:
The difference between how much contact in a tackle is enough for a player to go down, and how much is not enough, is impossible to fairly judge imo. A hand on the back, a brush of thighs, any kind of coming together is now scrutinised in macro. To me it feels like an impossible task, to try and make a grey area black and white, worse of all, is how long this scrutinisation takes. I was under the impression VAR would eliminate only the blatantly obvious cock ups, not involve microscopes and slide rules. 

Which is where it is massively going wrong. Was supposed to be for obvious errors but it's being used for millimetre decisions and to make calls that need looked at 74 times

Surely they can see you cant police grey areas with any amount of technology and time.

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Surely they can see you cant police grey areas with any amount of technology and time.
They are just bottling it. Using it for everything now which was always the concern.

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3 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

Nobody can convince me that we benefit more from mistakes as much as any other club. I would bet if you looked at the stats, it would show that we are the least favoured when it comes to VAR, which is pretty much what a load of people were predicting before the start of the season. It's been going on for years now, it's always a shock when we win a penalty because of the sheer amount of times they aren't given to us. 

I don't think the refs hate us and get together to be unfair to Chelsea, but I do think we are an easy club to give decisions against because nobody is going to kick up a fuss about it. Just look at the reaction when decisions go against Liverpool, United and Tottenham, the media always highlight it, the football pundits and radio shows are talking about how a ref has made a big mistake, but when it comes to Chelsea, the most that will happen is a little mention and they move on. The decisions that have gone against us because of VAR has been ridiculous, and we are only 10 league games into the season. We were even getting bad decisions when VAR was only being used in the cup games. If this was any other club, it would be highlighted more than it has been. Also, I can remember all of the times the media, commentators and pundits have gone mental when we win soft penalties. I remember how bad the reaction was after Ramires got a last minute penalty vs West Brom, to the point where the chief of referee's was pressured into apologising to West Brom over it. It was totally over the top and it feels like we have been paying for it ever since.

I also remember Mike Clattenburg's confession. 

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