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Chelsea v Crystal Palace (PL) Sat 9th Nov 12:30 GMT

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On 04/11/2019 at 09:00, axman2526 said:

No Jorginho, which is a blow as, for me, he has been our most key player of late.

 

So how do we cope without him? Think we need to set our stall out a little different as we do not have a deep-lying playmaker to replace him. A more 4-3-3 than our normal 4-2-3-1.

 

Kepa

 

James

Zouma

Tomori

Emerson

 

Kante

 

Kovacic

Mount

 

Pulisic

Abraham

Willian

 

I know Kante can play further forward but for this one off game let him be an anchor again, shut them down. Let Kova support him and get the ball out of tight spaces and let Mount have the most freedom to join with the front 3.

 

Our home form has been poor, we have to pick that up here.

After today's game I really hope No Alonso,  no dave.

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21 hours ago, BadBlue said:

Palace lost at home to Leicester so they will try to get something out of the game against us. 

Call me a dreamer but if we win against Palace and then man City beats Liverpool then we are are entering the title race as the dark (blue) horse. It's still November and the scousers are not playing great, winning quite a few games by luck in the 90th + min. That luck will eventually ran out and they will start losing games, if we continue to get results who knows where would we be in Jan/Feb? 

 

The last thing we need is be in the title race imo, that’ll naturally raise expectations and put Lampard under pressure when we drop off City/Liverpool.

I’m more than happy to see us stay around 3rd/4th, and enjoy the ride!

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No Jorginho, we’re better away than we are at home at present and Palace are also better away than they are at home.

Makes this a very tricky match IMO.

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10 hours ago, DannyVblue said:

This is the team I'd pick, and I think Lamps will agree.

Kepa

    James  Zouma Tomori Azpilicueta

      Kante   Kovacic

Willian   Pulisic   CHO

Abraham

 

I like to see Pulisic get more time in the center. I think he could be a player Frank can rotate between playing on the wings and in the center of attack.

 

 

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Nothing against Mount, but I think he needs a rest. Which is obviously understandable given his age and the fact it’s his first premiership campaign. 
 

(My opinion)
 

Seems to have slightly lost his edge over the past few games and seems to fade in and out. 
 

Still has top potential and I’m sure after a rest, he will be back to looking a threat! 


I would start with: William, Pulisic & CHO. 

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I cannot pardon Lampard for starting Alonso in our last match. why was he resting Emerson? with all the rest the guy had when he was injured, he came back and played against Watford, our defence looked so good in the game, then suddenly three days after against Ajax, Lampard didn't even put him in the entire squad.

These things are showing me that Lampard is not a good coach. It is in big games that you know a top coach. During Mourinho's days, he will adjust his formation and team selection so that he can present a very good team to beat a top team. He will not use the same team he had been using to beat small teams against big team. you can use an average team to beat average teams in the premier league, but you must create and craft a very top team from your squad to beat the top teams in the champions league and in the premier league.

I've not seen that from Lampard anytime we are playing the top teams this season, Liverpool, Man Utd (twice) and Leicester, have been poor matches for us because Lampard has had very poor big match management skills. And the problem is our midfield, and that is where Mourinho adjusts to win some of these matches. 

 At best, Jorginho is a physically weak player, and that is the reason he shouldn't be playing in that position against top teams. That position is expected to protect the back four, but can Jorginho protect the back four when we are playing against very good attackers and midfielders who move the ball very fast,  the answer is no. Reece James is bigger and stronger, he has played as a defensive midfielder before at Wigan, I was expecting that Lampard would develop that guy to play instead of Jorginho when we are playing against top teams.

Against Ajax, we couldn't even get the ball at all in the midfield because nobody was strong enough to tackle Ajax players in the midfield and collect the ball. That was why Mourinho developed Mctominay at Man Utd, played Makalele at Chelsea, developed Mikel to replace Makalele at chelsea when Makalele left.

He knows the importance of protecting the back four. 

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On 05/11/2019 at 10:41, BadBlue said:

Palace lost at home to Leicester so they will try to get something out of the game against us. 

Call me a dreamer but if we win against Palace and then man City beats Liverpool then we are are entering the title race as the dark (blue) horse. It's still November and the scousers are not playing great, winning quite a few games by luck in the 90th + min. That luck will eventually ran out and they will start losing games, if we continue to get results who knows where would we be in Jan/Feb? 

I don't want us to go there in terms of talk, I'm up for optimism as much as anyone but I don't think the title is realistic this season, I can't see us having the consistency. Maybe if the league was as weak as 2016 we could have pounced, but if we do it against these City and Liverpool sides at this stage of the process then Lampard deserves a nomination for manager of the decade.

I honestly believe one of the reason the fans turned against Sarri (all be it subconsciously I'd imagine) is our unbeaten start had us in the title discussion when realistically it was never on. While I know Frank wont become a similar target for booing I think if the title talk starts then a fair chunk of people won't be able to look at a slump in form (which I think is likely given the youth of our squad) objectively and see it as a "title challenging side" winning 2 in 6 or whatever the record is if/when he hit a blip.

However I do feel we have an outside chance of doing bits in the CL. I feel on our day we are capable of competing and even outplaying any team (as we shown in Istanbul against Liverpool) and if our great displays keep falling on CL nights you just never know.

We will get there in terms of challenging for the league, possibly even as early as next season, but this year I just can't see it.

Edited by Argo

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5 minutes ago, Argo said:

I don't want us to go there in terms of talk, I'm up for optimism as much as anyone but I don't think the title is realistic this season, I can't see us having the consistency.

 

 

Agreed. Talks of title is a far fetched dream.

This team, while exciting, is extremely inconsistent. You played amazing one game, and look absolutely horrid the next game. This team seems to always find a way to give easy goals to the opponents. You got beaten by ManU twice, a team that is in mid table. You got whooped by Liverpool, the title contender. If you can't handle teams like these, title should not be your objective. This will be a growing and learning season for the young team and young coach, with an eye on a top 4 finish.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, haviet1 said:

 

 

Agreed. Talks of title is a far fetched dream.

This team, while exciting, is extremely inconsistent. You played amazing one game, and look absolutely horrid the next game. This team seems to always find a way to give easy goals to the opponents. You got beaten by ManU twice, a team that is in mid table. You got whooped by Liverpool, the title contender. If you can't handle teams like these, title should not be your objective. This will be a growing and learning season for the young team and young coach, with an eye on a top 4 finish.

 

 

I agree about inconstency but i firmly disagree we got whooped by Liverpool. We battered them in the second half at The Bridge and did everything right bar finishing.

It's performances like that that make me think we have an outside chance of CL or at the very least a deep run in it.

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1 hour ago, hephzibah said:

I cannot pardon Lampard for starting Alonso in our last match. why was he resting Emerson? with all the rest the guy had when he was injured, he came back and played against Watford, our defence looked so good in the game, then suddenly three days after against Ajax, Lampard didn't even put him in the entire squad.

These things are showing me that Lampard is not a good coach. It is in big games that you know a top coach. During Mourinho's days, he will adjust his formation and team selection so that he can present a very good team to beat a top team. He will not use the same team he had been using to beat small teams against big team. you can use an average team to beat average teams in the premier league, but you must create and craft a very top team from your squad to beat the top teams in the champions league and in the premier league.

I've not seen that from Lampard anytime we are playing the top teams this season, Liverpool, Man Utd (twice) and Leicester, have been poor matches for us because Lampard has had very poor big match management skills. And the problem is our midfield, and that is where Mourinho adjusts to win some of these matches. 

 At best, Jorginho is a physically weak player, and that is the reason he shouldn't be playing in that position against top teams. That position is expected to protect the back four, but can Jorginho protect the back four when we are playing against very good attackers and midfielders who move the ball very fast,  the answer is no. Reece James is bigger and stronger, he has played as a defensive midfielder before at Wigan, I was expecting that Lampard would develop that guy to play instead of Jorginho when we are playing against top teams.

Against Ajax, we couldn't even get the ball at all in the midfield because nobody was strong enough to tackle Ajax players in the midfield and collect the ball. That was why Mourinho developed Mctominay at Man Utd, played Makalele at Chelsea, developed Mikel to replace Makalele at chelsea when Makalele left.

He knows the importance of protecting the back four. 

Word salad.

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1 hour ago, hephzibah said:

I cannot pardon Lampard for starting Alonso in our last match. why was he resting Emerson? with all the rest the guy had when he was injured, he came back and played against Watford, our defence looked so good in the game, then suddenly three days after against Ajax, Lampard didn't even put him in the entire squad.

These things are showing me that Lampard is not a good coach. It is in big games that you know a top coach. During Mourinho's days, he will adjust his formation and team selection so that he can present a very good team to beat a top team. He will not use the same team he had been using to beat small teams against big team. you can use an average team to beat average teams in the premier league, but you must create and craft a very top team from your squad to beat the top teams in the champions league and in the premier league.

I've not seen that from Lampard anytime we are playing the top teams this season, Liverpool, Man Utd (twice) and Leicester, have been poor matches for us because Lampard has had very poor big match management skills. And the problem is our midfield, and that is where Mourinho adjusts to win some of these matches. 

 At best, Jorginho is a physically weak player, and that is the reason he shouldn't be playing in that position against top teams. That position is expected to protect the back four, but can Jorginho protect the back four when we are playing against very good attackers and midfielders who move the ball very fast,  the answer is no. Reece James is bigger and stronger, he has played as a defensive midfielder before at Wigan, I was expecting that Lampard would develop that guy to play instead of Jorginho when we are playing against top teams.

Against Ajax, we couldn't even get the ball at all in the midfield because nobody was strong enough to tackle Ajax players in the midfield and collect the ball. That was why Mourinho developed Mctominay at Man Utd, played Makalele at Chelsea, developed Mikel to replace Makalele at chelsea when Makalele left.

He knows the importance of protecting the back four. 

Wow

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1 hour ago, hephzibah said:

 

 

Quote

I cannot pardon Lampard for starting Alonso in our last match. why was he resting Emerson? with all the rest the guy had when he was injured, he came back and played against Watford, our defence looked so good in the game, then suddenly three days after against Ajax, Lampard didn't even put him in the entire squad.

It's all ready been explained to you. Lampard not picking him was precautionary, he basically said this during the pre match press conference.

“Emerson has been out for about seven weeks, had a re-injury with it when he came back against Liverpool, so there’s probably a note of caution about it, in a way. He played well at the weekend, he did a lot of work in those 90 minutes so we’re protecting him a little bit"

That is the exact quote from Lampard. 

Quote

These things are showing me that Lampard is not a good coach. It is in big games that you know a top coach. During Mourinho's days, he will adjust his formation and team selection so that he can present a very good team to beat a top team. He will not use the same team he had been using to beat small teams against big team. you can use an average team to beat average teams in the premier league, but you must create and craft a very top team from your squad to beat the top teams in the champions league and in the premier league.

I've not seen that from Lampard anytime we are playing the top teams this season, Liverpool, Man Utd (twice) and Leicester, have been poor matches for us because Lampard has had very poor big match management skills. And the problem is our midfield, and that is where Mourinho adjusts to win some of these matches. 

This is just nonsense, especially the bit I have highlighted in bold. Lampard is in his 2nd year as a manager, he's managing a team that has a transfer ban, a team that was desperate for some new players. He has taken over a squad that just lost their best player, and the other 3 key players in tthe squad, Rudiger, Kante and Loftus-Cheek, have played very little this season because of injury. He has trusted youngsters to come in and do the job and got them playing at a level that nobody could have predicted they would be ready for. You complain about not beating the big teams, but why are you even expecting that with the squad we currently have? isn't it enough right now that we beat Ajax away, are competing with the top teams and in 4th in the league? Most people were predicting us to finish outside of the top 4 easily this season, even I was saying we would finish 6th, but as it stands, we are 6 points clear of 5th. You couldn't have picked a worse time to say he isn't good enough, he's currently exceeding people's expectations.

We lost to United at the start of season and in the league cup, the first game of the season turned out to be a blessing in disguise, it was a massive learning curve for us. The second game we played with a rotated squad, we were poor, but it happens. To criticise him for losing against Liverpool twice is ridiculous. On both occassions we took them on and even outplayed them in the Super Cup. The league game they only won because of a bad VAR call, and this is the current European Champions and league leader. Leicester was a bad half, but Leicester are proving to be a suprise package this season, they are a good team. For all we know, that point against them could be a good one.

You bring up Mourinho and pretend like he was perfect, but Mourinho got plenty wrong as a manager, it's why he has been sacked 4 times now. I won't disagree that Mourinho did a lot of good and I still think he is a top coach, but he got a lot wrong, including in the big games. You complain about Lampard picking Alonso, but Mourinho refused to drop Ivanovic even when it was clear that Ivanovic wasn't the same player he used to be. Nobody is perfect.

Quote

 At best, Jorginho is a physically weak player, and that is the reason he shouldn't be playing in that position against top teams. That position is expected to protect the back four, but can Jorginho protect the back four when we are playing against very good attackers and midfielders who move the ball very fast,  the answer is no. Reece James is bigger and stronger, he has played as a defensive midfielder before at Wigan, I was expecting that Lampard would develop that guy to play instead of Jorginho when we are playing against top teams.

Are you seriously saying Jorginho, possibly our best player this season, shouldn't be playing against the top teams? How can you not see that he is the player that makes us tick? I don't disagree that we could use a bit of protection from midfield, but I don't think that should mean that Jorginho is sacrificed in the big games. You say that you were expecting Reece James to take that role, but Reece James only returned from injury just over a month ago. How can you expect that from Lampard when he hasn't even had the player available for long? We also still have Kante to return, and if gets back to his best, it will be a big help for our defence. 

Quote

Against Ajax, we couldn't even get the ball at all in the midfield because nobody was strong enough to tackle Ajax players in the midfield and collect the ball. That was why Mourinho developed Mctominay at Man Utd, played Makalele at Chelsea, developed Mikel to replace Makalele at chelsea when Makalele left.

He knows the importance of protecting the back four. 

And yet, we dominated them on their own ground and we dominated the second half on Tuesday. It's not just us that have struggled to get the ball off Ajax in midfield, every team in Europe is struggling. They are a really good attacking team. They start games quicker than any team in Europe right now, they are a hard team to play against, especially in the first half. You could have put prime Makelele and Essien in our midfield and it would still have been a tough game.

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2 hours ago, hephzibah said:

I cannot pardon Lampard for starting Alonso in our last match. why was he resting Emerson? with all the rest the guy had when he was injured, he came back and played against Watford, our defence looked so good in the game, then suddenly three days after against Ajax, Lampard didn't even put him in the entire squad.

These things are showing me that Lampard is not a good coach. It is in big games that you know a top coach. During Mourinho's days, he will adjust his formation and team selection so that he can present a very good team to beat a top team. He will not use the same team he had been using to beat small teams against big team. you can use an average team to beat average teams in the premier league, but you must create and craft a very top team from your squad to beat the top teams in the champions league and in the premier league.

I've not seen that from Lampard anytime we are playing the top teams this season, Liverpool, Man Utd (twice) and Leicester, have been poor matches for us because Lampard has had very poor big match management skills. And the problem is our midfield, and that is where Mourinho adjusts to win some of these matches. 

 At best, Jorginho is a physically weak player, and that is the reason he shouldn't be playing in that position against top teams. That position is expected to protect the back four, but can Jorginho protect the back four when we are playing against very good attackers and midfielders who move the ball very fast,  the answer is no. Reece James is bigger and stronger, he has played as a defensive midfielder before at Wigan, I was expecting that Lampard would develop that guy to play instead of Jorginho when we are playing against top teams.

Against Ajax, we couldn't even get the ball at all in the midfield because nobody was strong enough to tackle Ajax players in the midfield and collect the ball. That was why Mourinho developed Mctominay at Man Utd, played Makalele at Chelsea, developed Mikel to replace Makalele at chelsea when Makalele left.

He knows the importance of protecting the back four. 

You idiot.

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1 hour ago, Scott Harris said:

 

It's all ready been explained to you. Lampard not picking him was precautionary, he basically said this during the pre match press conference.

“Emerson has been out for about seven weeks, had a re-injury with it when he came back against Liverpool, so there’s probably a note of caution about it, in a way. He played well at the weekend, he did a lot of work in those 90 minutes so we’re protecting him a little bit"

That is the exact quote from Lampard. 

This is just nonsense, especially the bit I have highlighted in bold. Lampard is in his 2nd year as a manager, he's managing a team that has a transfer ban, a team that was desperate for some new players. He has taken over a squad that just lost their best player, and the other 3 key players in tthe squad, Rudiger, Kante and Loftus-Cheek, have played very little this season because of injury. He has trusted youngsters to come in and do the job and got them playing at a level that nobody could have predicted they would be ready for. You complain about not beating the big teams, but why are you even expecting that with the squad we currently have? isn't it enough right now that we beat Ajax away, are competing with the top teams and in 4th in the league? Most people were predicting us to finish outside of the top 4 easily this season, even I was saying we would finish 6th, but as it stands, we are 6 points clear of 5th. You couldn't have picked a worse time to say he isn't good enough, he's currently exceeding people's expectations.

We lost to United at the start of season and in the league cup, the first game of the season turned out to be a blessing in disguise, it was a massive learning curve for us. The second game we played with a rotated squad, we were poor, but it happens. To criticise him for losing against Liverpool twice is ridiculous. On both occassions we took them on and even outplayed them in the Super Cup. The league game they only won because of a bad VAR call, and this is the current European Champions and league leader. Leicester was a bad half, but Leicester are proving to be a suprise package this season, they are a good team. For all we know, that point against them could be a good one.

You bring up Mourinho and pretend like he was perfect, but Mourinho got plenty wrong as a manager, it's why he has been sacked 4 times now. I won't disagree that Mourinho did a lot of good and I still think he is a top coach, but he got a lot wrong, including in the big games. You complain about Lampard picking Alonso, but Mourinho refused to drop Ivanovic even when it was clear that Ivanovic wasn't the same player he used to be. Nobody is perfect.

Are you seriously saying Jorginho, possibly our best player this season, shouldn't be playing against the top teams? How can you not see that he is the player that makes us tick? I don't disagree that we could use a bit of protection from midfield, but I don't think that should mean that Jorginho is sacrificed in the big games. You say that you were expecting Reece James to take that role, but Reece James only returned from injury just over a month ago. How can you expect that from Lampard when he hasn't even had the player available for long? We also still have Kante to return, and if gets back to his best, it will be a big help for our defence. 

And yet, we dominated them on their own ground and we dominated the second half on Tuesday. It's not just us that have struggled to get the ball off Ajax in midfield, every team in Europe is struggling. They are a really good attacking team. They start games quicker than any team in Europe right now, they are a hard team to play against, especially in the first half. You could have put prime Makelele and Essien in our midfield and it would still have been a tough game.

What Lampard said concerning Emerson is not tenable. This is the reason why not all of us can be managers. It's a talent, I think. Alonso was so poor in that first half, I mean he was dire. If Emerson was as fit as he was against Watford, then even if Lampard wanted to take precautions, then he should have rested Emerson against Watford and played him against Ajax since Ajax is a more important match at the time. 

we shouldnt be confused by Alonso's occasionally goals from free kicks, and forget that his role is that of a left back. Who is a left back? A left back is a DEFENDER, (emphasis mine). If he is not able to defend for us, then let another person replace him. I dont know what that Ajax game would have ended with, maybe 6:2, if not for those two red cards that Ajax collected. 

The other area, I mean midfield, you read my analysis about Mourinho, how we need a stronger protection for our back four. Some people are just thinking of us scoring goals, they are not thinking that if we are conceding goals, all the efforts of our attacking players to get the goals will be in futility because we keep conceding goals. Against Ajax, if we had not conceded any goal in that match, we would have won the match by 4:0. If we defend better, we will win more matches. Thus, it is important for us to protect our back four.

Thirdly, concerning Lampard, I am criticizing him because of Jorginho. Jorginho is the same Jorginho of last season under Sarri ball. Jorginho is a good player, a good deep lying playmaker. He's very effective against smaller teams but not against the bigger teams. Sarri ball was a great style of play, very entertaining, and beautiful. But, considering the nature of the Premier league, that style was a very audacious style because it was contrary to the traditional premier league midfield which normally has two defensively minded players covering the back four and an attacking player supporting the attackers. 

Throughout last season we were all concerned about that midfield because for the past fifteen years or so of the Abramovich era, I don't think Chelsea has played like that. 

I am only reinforcing our concerns from last season that Lampard should find a solution to it especially when we are playing against a strong opposition so that our back four doesn't get exposed. 

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On 06/11/2019 at 02:59, erskblue said:

Like Watford last Saturday. This is always a tough game v Palace, whether home or away.

I keep telling fans of L'puke & manure that. They only have 1 derby to concern themselves with. London Teams have a lot more & they all mean something.

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1 minute ago, hephzibah said:

What Lampard said concerning Emerson is not tenable. This is the reason why not all of us can be managers. It's a talent, I think. Alonso was so poor in that first half, I mean he was dire. If Emerson was as fit as he was against Watford, then even if Lampard wanted to take precautions, then he should have rested Emerson against Watford and played him against Ajax since Ajax is a more important match at the time. 

we shouldnt be confused by Alonso's occasionally goals from free kicks, and forget that his role is that of a left back. Who is a left back? A left back is a DEFENDER, (emphasis mine). If he is not able to defend for us, then let another person replace him. I dont know what that Ajax game would have ended with, maybe 6:2, if not for those two red cards that Ajax collected. 

The other area, I mean midfield, you read my analysis about Mourinho, how we need a stronger protection for our back four. Some people are just thinking of us scoring goals, they are not thinking that if we are conceding goals, all the efforts of our attacking players to get the goals will be in futility because we keep conceding goals. Against Ajax, if we had not conceded any goal in that match, we would have won the match by 4:0. If we defend better, we will win more matches. Thus, it is important for us to protect our back four.

Thirdly, concerning Lampard, I am criticizing him because of Jorginho. Jorginho is the same Jorginho of last season under Sarri ball. Jorginho is a good player, a good deep lying playmaker. He's very effective against smaller teams but not against the bigger teams. Sarri ball was a great style of play, very entertaining, and beautiful. But, considering the nature of the Premier league, that style was a very audacious style because it was contrary to the traditional premier league midfield which normally has two defensively minded players covering the back four and an attacking player supporting the attackers. 

Throughout last season we were all concerned about that midfield because for the past fifteen years or so of the Abramovich era, I don't think Chelsea has played like that. 

I am only reinforcing our concerns from last season that Lampard should find a solution to it especially when we are playing against a strong opposition so that our back four doesn't get exposed. 

Keeping Emerson out of the Watford game and playing him against Ajax would be stupid. He wasn't ready for that type of game when he has been out injured for so long. Emerson didn't need to do much work against Watford, he would have been much busier against Ajax which would have been an unnecessary risk when he has just returned from injury. You're fogetting what happened the last time Emerson was thrown straight back in against a big team. Lampard put him in against Liverpool and not long after the game started, he was subbed off because he got injured again. Lampard obviously didn't want to take that risk again. You're also forgetting that Alonso started the game against Ajax away and we won and he played well, so it's understandable why he would put his trust in Alonso for the home game.

You complain about the lack of cover coming from midfield, but the majority of our goals conceded have nothing to do with that. Most of the goals we have conceded have been from the full back areas, set pieces and individual errors. Overall, I think the midfield cover has been a lot better than it was last season, mainly because the team is pressing better and playing at a quicker tempo. But against Ajax, it didn't matter how well we pressed because they are so good at playing out of tight areas. The way they are set up now is not perfect, but it's not that much different from most of the other top teams in Europe and if Kante returns to his best, then it will only improve.

I don't know how you think Jorginho is the same player from last season, Jorginho is far better than he was last season. His passing is more effective, he's playing at a quicker pace, he's pressing better and making tackles, he is a transformed player under Lampard. Sarri's tactics were slow and boring, I rarely ever found it entertaining to watch, Lampard has us playing totally different to the way Sarri had us playing. We have more reasons to be excited about this team under Lampard than we ever did with Sarri's team.

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4 minutes ago, Davey Baby said:

 

Are you by any chance on drugs?

listen Davey baby, I thought you would be more tactful than what you just wrote now. In the days of Barcelona's tiki taka, was it not joy to watch?  We played like Barcelona last season. You can check all our ball possession last season, we had a lot of ball possession last season. That's why I said it was joy to watch. 

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