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Jack Grealish


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2 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

Mid 20's, not played a single game of European football, not won a single trophy, spent most of his career fighting relegation and winning promotion with Villa and doesn't have a single top 10 finish in the Premier League in his career. Doesn't score enough either. He still has everything to prove at the top level before he can be considered world class.

The majority of our squad are more proven at the top level than Grealish is, but there are only two players in our whole squad I would label world class, Kante and Silva.

 

 

The not won a trophy argument is so bad, there are plenty of world class players who play for terrible clubs that just wont be in contention to win trophies. Look at Kane for example.. 

He cant help being surrounded by dross, but if you cant see hes a good player then there's no point continuing this conversation

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3 minutes ago, junkymunky said:

 

I think its a fair comment... A lot of the season Werner has started on the left, and you're telling me Grealish isnt an upgrade?

Werner played an inside forward role in an advanced position, Grealish plays deeper and wider, why are we comapring them ? The system we played last season dint have a place for Grealish, not without using a crowbar.

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1 minute ago, coco said:

Werner played an inside forward role in an advanced position, Grealish plays deeper and wider, why are we comapring them ? The system we played last season dint have a place for Grealish, not without using a crowbar.

yeah if we carry on playing the same formation there's no real space for him, but it seems once Tuchel gets his ideal signings we're going to a 4-3-3 as thats his preferred one to use

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1 minute ago, junkymunky said:

yeah if we carry on playing the same formation there's no real space for him, but it seems once Tuchel gets his ideal signings we're going to a 4-3-3 as thats his preferred one to use

Pulisic and CHO are both better at beating players than Grealish, so if Tommy changed the system i would like to see them get a chance before Grealish. Another thing with Grealish is the main part of his game is buying fouls for the team, but we dont really have a threat from free kicks, and it would break up play a lot and slowing down attacks just to go through the motion of a free kick over the bar.

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Just now, coco said:

Pulisic and CHO are both better at beating players than Grealish, so if Tommy changed the system i would like to see them get a chance before Grealish. Another thing with Grealish is the main part of his game is buying fouls for the team, but we dont really have a threat from free kicks, and it would break up play a lot and slowing down attacks just to go through the motion of a free kick over the bar.

Winning penalties and freekicks are pretty underrated though! Hazard used to be great at it and its saved us plenty of times. 

Maybe you're right and CHO and Pulisic will be better direct wingers than him, but I still feel we miss someone with his creativity

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5 minutes ago, junkymunky said:

Winning penalties and freekicks are pretty underrated though! Hazard used to be great at it and its saved us plenty of times. 

Maybe you're right and CHO and Pulisic will be better direct wingers than him, but I still feel we miss someone with his creativity

Whatever TT goes with I'm behind him 110%

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1 hour ago, junkymunky said:

 

The not won a trophy argument is so bad, there are plenty of world class players who play for terrible clubs that just wont be in contention to win trophies. Look at Kane for example.. 

He cant help being surrounded by dross, but if you cant see hes a good player then there's no point continuing this conversation

I don’t think every good player is a world class player. For me Kane isn’t a world class player, English fans would disagree though. He reminds me of peak Higuain who in contrast was actually well decorated but never showed up on the big stage. IMO Peak Higuain was never a world class player. 
As for being surrounded by dross, he got to a CL final and was close to winning the league. You ask some Spurs fan and they will tell you he never turned up at the CL final, and couldn’t drag them to a league title. Not a world class player for me, and if you argue he is then you probably would say Son is a world class player also which he clearly isn’t. 

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3 hours ago, junkymunky said:

 

The not won a trophy argument is so bad, there are plenty of world class players who play for terrible clubs that just wont be in contention to win trophies. Look at Kane for example.. 

He cant help being surrounded by dross, but if you cant see hes a good player then there's no point continuing this conversation

I can see that he is a good player, just not a world class one. Massively overhyped for achieving very little in the game at this point in his career. It actually reminds me of how people overhyped Zaha for so long.

Also, the point about needing to win a trophy to be world class, I personally think you do need to win something to be world class, but even if you think you don't need to win anything, what about all of the other points I made? Being mid 20's and not playing a single game of his career in European football, not scoring many goals, not a single top 10 finish at the highest level, spending some of his best years in the Championship? We can add relegated from the Premier League to his name as well. Maybe one of these on their own wouldn't disqualify him from being world class, but when you add them all together, then I can't see how he can be labelled world class.

Edited by Scott Harris
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41 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

I can see that he is a good player, just not a world class one. Massively overhyped for achieving very little in the game at this point in his career. It actually reminds me of how people overhyped Zaha for so long.

Also, the point about needing to win a trophy to be world class, I personally think you do need to win something to be world class, but even if you think you don't need to win anything, what about all of the other points I made? Being mid 20's and not playing a single game of his career in European football, not scoring many goals, not a single top 10 finish at the highest level, spending some of his best years in the Championship? We can add relegated from the Premier League to his name as well. Maybe one of these on their own wouldn't disqualify him from being world class, but when you add them all together, then I can't see how he can be labelled world class.

Most of his hype has come from people desperate to throw shade at Mount, and even that only started because the previous player used for that purpose (Maddison) fell so far off a cliff they had to find someone else.

Edited by Argo
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World class players win stuff because they end up in winning teams. Grealish is good, but still didn’t start for England, lacks pace, I’ve not observed him pressing and doesn’t score much more than Barkley. If he goes to ManC ends up starting in front of Foden or Sterling or Mahrez then we’ll see how good he really is. But in any case he’s not what we need. I like Werner’s work rate and pace, makes it happen for the team. 

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15 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

I can see that he is a good player, just not a world class one. Massively overhyped for achieving very little in the game at this point in his career. It actually reminds me of how people overhyped Zaha for so long.

Also, the point about needing to win a trophy to be world class, I personally think you do need to win something to be world class, but even if you think you don't need to win anything, what about all of the other points I made? Being mid 20's and not playing a single game of his career in European football, not scoring many goals, not a single top 10 finish at the highest level, spending some of his best years in the Championship? We can add relegated from the Premier League to his name as well. Maybe one of these on their own wouldn't disqualify him from being world class, but when you add them all together, then I can't see how he can be labelled world class.

 

Yeah thats a fair point, but he's pretty unlucky to be playing for a Aston Villa side who in general are not that good, at least not to be competing at the european level. He's at his boyhood club and the club he supports and its not like hes pushing for a transfer. 

Just think its a bit harsh to write off player just because he plays for a team that is midtable and wont really compete for trophies or play in europe. Im sure there have been many top players in the past that up until a certain point didnt have any of what you mentioned.

I tend to look at it more on his individual attributes and abilities and i think those are top tier in the premier league

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17 hours ago, ducavis said:

I don’t think every good player is a world class player. For me Kane isn’t a world class player, English fans would disagree though. He reminds me of peak Higuain who in contrast was actually well decorated but never showed up on the big stage. IMO Peak Higuain was never a world class player. 
As for being surrounded by dross, he got to a CL final and was close to winning the league. You ask some Spurs fan and they will tell you he never turned up at the CL final, and couldn’t drag them to a league title. Not a world class player for me, and if you argue he is then you probably would say Son is a world class player also which he clearly isn’t. 

Whats your definition on world class? For me its being in the top 5 maybe top 10 of your position in the world... And Kane is clearly a top 5 striker in world football? And Grealish is definitely one of the best left wingers in the world imo.

I agree about Higuain though, he was never world class imo, but at one stage he was a pretty lethal striker for a season or 2 and that was it.

Also the surrounded by dross comment was for Grealish and not Kane, though you could argue the Spurs team are almost just as sh*t anyway!

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This is why City have managed to become the dominant team in the league.

Don't rest on their laurels when they win and always look to reinvent themselves. World class or not he's a terrific player and with the amount of talent in that squad now you would almost need a miracle to beat them over 38 games.

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I posted this elsewhere, boy it made me chuckle

"Brilliant sarcasm on football 365, about City mainly and clickbait journalism, one of the best, relating to Grealish, with the mind-blowing headline, "Grealish big city move", cos he was spotted in Dubrovnik, a big city.

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3 minutes ago, Sindre said:

This is why City have managed to become the dominant team in the league.

Don't rest on their laurels when they win and always look to reinvent themselves. World class or not he's a terrific player and with the amount of talent in that squad now you would almost need a miracle to beat them over 38 games.

Let them win the league. Honestly who actually cares? If we spunk £150mil on Haaland then we’ve only won the league because we’ve bought the success. Football isn’t about genuine sporting merit anymore; it’s completely lost it’s identity. All jokes aside with my Haaland posts, in reality, I hate the modern game. I hate knowing that if I was a 6 year old in today’s world, the only player who’d come ever close to a poster on my wall is Mason Mount; when in truth when I was a 6 year old, I had Wise, Zola, Vialli; heck I ever lied about Dennis Wise being my uncle in school once he was that much of a hero to me.

 

The game has been ruined and tarnished by oil money and state funded projects. I honestly couldn’t give two hoots if City romp home again, or even if we win it. Money coupled with constant acts of petulance, VAR interventions and a genuine loss of identity killed the game. This summer and the rumoured fees for players nailed the coffin; especially in a world tarnished by a pandemic where small countries can’t even get their hands on vaccinations with a combined wealth smaller than Jack f**king Grealish.

 

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44 minutes ago, Sindre said:

This is why City have managed to become the dominant team in the league.

Don't rest on their laurels when they win and always look to reinvent themselves. World class or not he's a terrific player and with the amount of talent in that squad now you would almost need a miracle to beat them over 38 games.

Honestly City spending 100m on Grealish is far less threatening than if they did on Harry Kane though. He would have been the perfect addition to a squad only lacking striker / false 9 options and some physicality up front. Seemingly they couldn't get him and wanted to move their money elsewhere. I think Grealish is a great left winger, making up for his lack of pace with vision, technique, intelligence and charisma, but he won't significantly improve a squad that already includes Sterling, Foden and de Bruyne.

It's a bit like if we had signed Donnarumma and people would then have said "this is the final puzzle piece that will make Chelsea dominate the PL"

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Is Grealish that much better than the likes of Silva, Foden, Torres to warrent such a huge investment? 

Just seems such an odd position for them to invest so heavily in. Are they going to buy Grealish and Kane for a combined £200m+?

Reason we're being linked with spending £100m+ on a centre forward is because we struggled for goals last season. Just trying to wrap my head around City's reasoning for this one. 

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3 hours ago, Sindre said:
 
This is why City have managed to become the dominant team in the league.

Don't rest on their laurels when they win and always look to reinvent themselves. 

Only because they have an unlimited budget. If any other club was in their position, they would be doing the same. If we could spend £100m+ every year on players without selling, we would do it, same goes for every other club. 

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40 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

Only because they have an unlimited budget. If any other club was in their position, they would be doing the same. If we could spend £100m+ every year on players without selling, we would do it, same goes for every other club. 

Looks to me like both Manchester clubs have been doing that but only one is winning titles...

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