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Kai Havertz coming to Chelsea


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On 17/12/2020 at 18:59, Paddy said:

If he cost £25 million I wouldn’t have such a problem with taking a punt on his ‘potential’ , but I was expecting so much more bang for the bucks we paid for him ( weren’t we all ??) and that he would be a reasonable player with growth to come, - notwithstanding PLnewcountrycovidonly21stilllearninggreatpotentialblahblahblah - I mean, he’s been truly truly awful this past couple of games and in those matches , he didn’t shoot, he definitely can’t pass without it being under hit , he can’t run with the ball without losing it (often very easily) and he doesn’t successfully tackle either and if he carries on under hitting passes to his team mates , someone will get injured.

It’s not his fault that we paid what we did for him, but I am so underwhelmed with what I’ve seen from him from the get go and right now I, personally, just don’t see this potential, he doesn’t do the basics even? and the trouble is his piss poor performances have an effect on the teams moral - did you see the looks that James gave him a couple of times v Everton ?!

I think I’m guilty of believing all the hype - that’s what spending £75 million on a player does to you - and although it’s not my money, what’s spent is spent and unless it’s recouped, it can’t be spent again so that means less or no money to spend next transfer window and I wouldn’t be surprised if we are getting a reputation of being a soft touch in the transfer market ??

What I need to know is, how exactly should you eat humble pie ?

Oh , and PLnewcountrycovidonly21stilllearninggreatpotentialblahblahblah, has a much bigger effect than I realised :slap_face:

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Paddy said:

What I need to know is, how exactly should you eat humble pie ?

Oh , and PLnewcountrycovidonly21stilllearninggreatpotentialblahblahblah, has a much bigger effect than I realised :slap_face:

There's no shame in this.

As good as he has been recently, it is still very early days and by and large he has been a disappointment if we strip away the emotion. We've seen his floor before his ceiling so it's healthy to be sceptical.

It's also worthwhile remembering that we bought Havertz because we think he can be the next Messi/Ronaldo - not the next Neymar or the next Suarez, the tier below. Even at his absolute best this season we haven't seen the consistency needed to show he is even potentially capable of that level, a bonafide solo match winner. It is still a long and potentially windy road.

 

 

 

Edited by SydneyChelsea
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9 minutes ago, SydneyChelsea said:

There's no shame in this.

As good as he has been recently, it is still very early days and by and large he has been a disappointment if we strip away the emotion. We've seen his floor before his ceiling so it's healthy to be sceptical.

It's also worthwhile remembering that we bought Havertz because we think he can be the next Messi/Ronaldo - not the next Neymar or the next Suarez, the tier below. Even at his absolute best this season we haven't seen the consistency needed to show he is even potentially capable of that level, a bonafide solo match winner. It is still a long and potentially windy road.

 

 

 

We didn't buy Havertz to be the new Ronaldo / Messi, why does every decent young talent need to be compared with them. He's more like a combination of Ballack & Zidane, you can see the confidence and his style is starting to show.

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17 minutes ago, SydneyChelsea said:

There's no shame in this.

As good as he has been recently, it is still very early days and by and large he has been a disappointment if we strip away the emotion. We've seen his floor before his ceiling so it's healthy to be sceptical.

It's also worthwhile remembering that we bought Havertz because we think he can be the next Messi/Ronaldo - not the next Neymar or the next Suarez, the tier below. Even at his absolute best this season we haven't seen the consistency needed to show he is even potentially capable of that level, a bonafide solo match winner. It is still a long and potentially windy road.

 

 

 

He has played a couple of games recently , v Palace and v Fulham, where he looked useful and I began to think that there was something to this furore that has existed around him before joining Chelsea, but last night I thought he was sensational - maybe I’m getting carried away with the emotion of the win and I will re-watch the game this afternoon to be certain, but he looked imperious, wasn’t fazed by the occasion or reputations - it would have been understandable had he been psyched out by Ramos, but he wasn’t not a bit of it.

Now, as you say, he needs to show consistency. 

 

 

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36 minutes ago, SydneyChelsea said:

It's also worthwhile remembering that we bought Havertz because we think he can be the next Messi/Ronaldo - not the next Neymar or the next Suarez, the tier below.

No pressure then!

 

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1 minute ago, Paddy said:

He has played a couple of games recently , v Palace and v Fulham, where he looked useful and I began to think that there was something to this furore that has existed around him before joining Chelsea, but last night I thought he was sensational - maybe I’m getting carried away with the emotion of the win and I will re-watch the game this afternoon to be certain, but he looked imperious, wasn’t fazed by the occasion or reputations - it would have been understandable had he been psyched out by Ramos, but he wasn’t not a bit of it.

Now, as you say, he needs to show consistency. 

 

 

Oh, and even as good as he was, he isn’t my MOTM - Kante all day long, but a really big mention for Pulisic, who must have been pissed at not starting, but he came on and was on it and on it and on it. 

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7 minutes ago, Malcolm9 said:

We didn't buy Havertz to be the new Ronaldo / Messi, why does every decent young talent need to be compared with them. He's more like a combination of Ballack & Zidane, you can see the confidence and his style is starting to show.

I'm making that particular comparison to explain that we weren't just looking for a decent young talent, a good player or even a great player; the word specifically used by media reporting at the time was "generational". We signed Havertz for £70m because we had done almost half a decade of diligence to conclude he was "a generational talent" who would be an icon of his playing cohort. The board spent that money in the middle of a pandemic and where there was no great need in his position (having prior signed Ziyech and Werner and needing to wrap up Mendy and Rice) because they felt we would be ruined for a generation if we missed out and he went to the other dozen clubs courting him.

There is plenty of media reporting this, but here is an in-depth from The Athletic (possible paywall) about this: https://theathletic.co.uk/2044050/2020/09/05/havertz-transfer-mclachlan-marina-phone-call-lampard-real-madrid/#

We shouldn't be ashamed of that, nor should we be impatient about his ability, but we also need to be realistic and understand Havertz will only be considered a success if he is one of the top 5 players in the world in 5 years time. Anything else would be less than what we intended.

 

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2 hours ago, RMH said:

He was great last night bar his finishing. But the most impressive part was how he fought and the energy he had to track back and defend high up. That kick on Nacho's shin at the beginning made me laugh, I never thought he had it in him.

He's really got to be tucking away the one in the second half Courtois saved but the attempt that led to the first goal can't really be held against him in my opinion, to chip it over a keeper the size of Courtois is no mean feet in itself.

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48 minutes ago, _Ilya_ said:

Personally I thought we bought him to be the next Maradona, so his coke consumption as been very disappointing. But you know ... he is still young ... adjusting to new country ... surely he'll raise his level.

All I'm going to say to this is Mutu

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5 hours ago, SydneyChelsea said:

I'm making that particular comparison to explain that we weren't just looking for a decent young talent, a good player or even a great player; the word specifically used by media reporting at the time was "generational". We signed Havertz for £70m because we had done almost half a decade of diligence to conclude he was "a generational talent" who would be an icon of his playing cohort. The board spent that money in the middle of a pandemic and where there was no great need in his position (having prior signed Ziyech and Werner and needing to wrap up Mendy and Rice) because they felt we would be ruined for a generation if we missed out and he went to the other dozen clubs courting him.

There is plenty of media reporting this, but here is an in-depth from The Athletic (possible paywall) about this: https://theathletic.co.uk/2044050/2020/09/05/havertz-transfer-mclachlan-marina-phone-call-lampard-real-madrid/#

We shouldn't be ashamed of that, nor should we be impatient about his ability, but we also need to be realistic and understand Havertz will only be considered a success if he is one of the top 5 players in the world in 5 years time. Anything else would be less than what we intended.

 

A "generational talent" is certainly not a Messi or a Ronaldo, they are the best of a generation (and of all generations before and possible after). Few people will ever be able to reach those levels in the game.

A generational talent is someone like Lewendowski or Hazard or Lampard or Drogbo or Aguero or even De Bruyne or Kante, someone who elevates any team that he plays for. Someone who will be worth huge money in the future and may well be unattainable. Haaland is a potentially a generational talent.

I do not think anyone at the club expects (or expected) him to become a Messi or a Ronaldo.

The article is paywalled BTW.

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After a very indifferent first season for us I was unsure about him until weds night. He's put in some good performances over the last few games but he was a different beast against Madrid. Normally he looks like he doesn't care but he looked determined to prove himself. Hopefully this is the Kai we get from now on

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23 minutes ago, Malta Blue said:

After a very indifferent first season for us I was unsure about him until weds night. He's put in some good performances over the last few games but he was a different beast against Madrid. Normally he looks like he doesn't care but he looked determined to prove himself. Hopefully this is the Kai we get from now on

He looks like he doesn't run and as if he doesn't care but he's just a badass I think, all ice in his veins :woot2:

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33 minutes ago, Malta Blue said:

After a very indifferent first season for us I was unsure about him until weds night. He's put in some good performances over the last few games but he was a different beast against Madrid. Normally he looks like he doesn't care but he looked determined to prove himself. Hopefully this is the Kai we get from now on

Sure looks like a completely different player.

He allowed himself to be bullied early on this season. Most of the time he was dominated physically by just about anyone. Needing time to settle, playing in a bunch of different positions and getting a bad case of Covid didn't help him at all either but he just looks like a different player altogether right now. 

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2 hours ago, Sindre said:

Sure looks like a completely different player.

He allowed himself to be bullied early on this season. Most of the time he was dominated physically by just about anyone. Needing time to settle, playing in a bunch of different positions and getting a bad case of Covid didn't help him at all either but he just looks like a different player altogether right now. 

I thought he was ok early in the season, wasnt really being dominated but after his illness he looked a lot weaker and unsure. Be interesting to know how much his resurgence is down to his physical recovery from Covid, mental attitude etc.

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8 minutes ago, dkw said:

I thought he was ok early in the season, wasnt really being dominated but after his illness he looked a lot weaker and unsure. Be interesting to know how much his resurgence is down to his physical recovery from Covid, mental attitude etc.

Thought he had a decent start all in all but things unraveled fairly quickly and then Covid kicked him in the teeth as well before he came back with two horrific performances against Everton and Wolves away. And then the run that got Lampard sacked followed so it was just an unpleasant time for anyone associated with the club.

Think Tuchel's move to play him a lot closer to our opponents goal then he did under Frank have paid off. He never looked quite right as an 8 for me.

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2 hours ago, Sindre said:

I was really nervous when I saw that kick-out trying to get Nacho off him at 12 seconds.

Had Nacho milked the situation and rolled around on the floor I could see how the ref would be tricked and may have sent Havertz off.

Only really nervous? He gave me a f**king heart attack, I was sure he was to be sent off with a straight red and therefore unvailable for the final. But lovely to see how he was taking the mickey out of a Madrid player here and there :biggrin:

I've never heard the word "silky" so much as from the pundits this week when speaking about Kai.

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