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Kai Havertz coming to Chelsea


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3 hours ago, SydneyChelsea said:

I'm not sure where this chart is from but it's misleading. Unfortunately my provider blocks screenshots but even from minutes 5-10 you can clearly see that Chelsea's formation is 4-2-3-1

 

Was this actually the case, or is it more a of a post-hoc justification? Havertz didn't make many passes in the final third because he saw so little of the ball, and he saw so little of the ball because he would often take up unfamiliar positions (to the rest of the team).

Watching the game on replay it was extremely weird that both Jorginho/Kante and Christensen/Zouma looked for the left-sided Alonso/Mount rather than playing to James/Havertz on the right. I don't know why the attack was so left-side oriented other than perhaps it was Lampard's instruction to take advantage of the space left behind Lamptey.

One thing I noticed with Havertz is he tried to play little exchanges with Kante/Jorginho but never received the return ball. Part of that is down to unfamiliarity because as the top threat at Leverkusen, he demands the ball, whereas at Chelsea he starts off as just another cog in the machine. Part of it was him not reading the tempo of Brighton's press very well, as he would await the return ball in a compromised position with a defender or two breathing down his neck. However, we also need to recognise that recieving the ball in tight spaces is a huge part of his game and his talent, and the other players need to build their own confidence in giving him the ball too.

 

 

It's maybe not a coincidence that 3 different sources put up 3 different formations... Kai was played out of position no matter how you put it, he simply isn't a right midfielder which is where he was playing for most of the time, far too wide and far too deep.

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8 hours ago, SydneyChelsea said:

I'm not sure where this chart is from but it's misleading. Unfortunately my provider blocks screenshots but even from minutes 5-10 you can clearly see that Chelsea's formation is 4-2-3-1

 

Was this actually the case, or is it more a of a post-hoc justification? Havertz didn't make many passes in the final third because he saw so little of the ball, and he saw so little of the ball because he would often take up unfamiliar positions (to the rest of the team).

Watching the game on replay it was extremely weird that both Jorginho/Kante and Christensen/Zouma looked for the left-sided Alonso/Mount rather than playing to James/Havertz on the right. I don't know why the attack was so left-side oriented other than perhaps it was Lampard's instruction to take advantage of the space left behind Lamptey.

One thing I noticed with Havertz is he tried to play little exchanges with Kante/Jorginho but never received the return ball. Part of that is down to unfamiliarity because as the top threat at Leverkusen, he demands the ball, whereas at Chelsea he starts off as just another cog in the machine. Part of it was him not reading the tempo of Brighton's press very well, as he would await the return ball in a compromised position with a defender or two breathing down his neck. However, we also need to recognise that recieving the ball in tight spaces is a huge part of his game and his talent, and the other players need to build their own confidence in giving him the ball too.

 

 

To be fair, it's whoscored.com. I don't even know why people are using whoscored. It's utter garbage when it comes to formations and weighting of things ingame. They get formations wrong so many times it's mind boggling. You can also flawlessly control the midfield the whole game and it won't be worth as much as the "assist" Jorgi provided to Reece James against Brighton. If your keeper makes a mistake at the back your rating will drop no matter if you're a striker, DM or CB and many many other things their algorithms don't take into account.

When I have discussions with people and they quote whoscored-ratings as an argument I immediatly assume they either A) didn't even watch the game or B) don't know what to make of what they saw with their own eyes.

Sorry for the OT, but I had to get that off my chest.

Edited by Vagabond
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I thought Havertz was the second best player on the pitch today for us, behind Werner. He was pulling the strings when given the opportunity and infused a lot of energy into our attack. I have no clue why Lampard keeps playing him out of position though. Let him be a supporting striker/attacking midfielder in a 4-2-3-1 or 3-4-2-1 and watch him go to work. No more of this False 9/winger nonsense until he builds up more chemistry and comfort with this team.

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During the first 10 minutes Werner got the ball on the left and had a 1v1 situation but didn't create anything from it, this happened I think twice during the first minutes of the game. There I thought we missed a chance to create a goal and take the lead which would have changed the game, Werner lost to Fabinho and didn't deliver the ball to Kai.

I'm thinking that we could keep trying with Kai as the false 9 and Werner a bit wide, much better in comparison to Kai being a Right Midfielder like in the first game.

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8 minutes ago, jack_super_class said:

What was the point in buying him though if they didnt know where to play him?.

We do, but I think lampard is pushing him wide in the absence of our 2 best wide players and CHO upsetting lampard. 

I assume Havertz will resume the number 10 role when either Ziyech or pulisic is fit. But I'd personally rather w do that sooner than later. 

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9 minutes ago, charierre said:

I'm not sure were this fallacy of him being played out of position has come from? At Leverkusen he played quite frequently in four or five positions. 

 

In a new league new team play him in his most natural postion until settled, playing him out wide doesnt seem to be giving him confidence.

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1 minute ago, Imran_CFC said:

Not sure where the notion of him playing wide yesterday comes from, the front 3 were fluid in there movement but Havertz was clearly the Central figure up against VVD whereas Werner pre-dominantly on the left and Mount was on the right.

 

certin "fans" see the graphic on Sky that shows Havertz playing left wing and make their assumptions based on that, rather than you know, actually watching what happens during the game.,

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1 minute ago, Brutos said:

In a new league new team play him in his most natural postion until settled, playing him out wide doesnt seem to be giving him confidence.

Sorry you mustn't have understood his German he clearly says and has played a variety of positions. Yesterday he started at false 9 and also drifted right , he is a very fluid player.

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48 minutes ago, charierre said:

Sorry you mustn't have understood his German he clearly says and has played a variety of positions. Yesterday he started at false 9 and also drifted right , he is a very fluid player.

I understand that what am saying his give him his most comfortable position to start and then let him roam....not disputing his ability to play all over

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5 hours ago, dkw said:

certin "fans" see the graphic on Sky that shows Havertz playing left wing and make their assumptions based on that, rather than you know, actually watching what happens during the game.,

You really can't get out your own way can you.  Even heat maps indicate a RW bias against Brighton and a Central bias (to slightly right) against Liverpool.  Where does the left come from?

Hopefully he continues to settle/adapt and can lock down a position and start to influence the game more.

Edited by PhilH930
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I would'nt read anything into his first two games. At Brighton he had to play wide to Accommodate RLC, and yesterday i just think Frank got the tactics wrong, again playing him wide.

He strikes me as a 10 or 8 and has to be involved in the game from the off, as soon as we're up to full strength with Ziyech and Captain America fully fit and on the flanks, we will see a completely different player.

He's a class act no question

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