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Spuds v Chelsea (PL) Sun 22nd Dec 16:30 GMT


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17 minutes ago, dkw said:

Stop with this revisionist crap, he's the best manager we've ever had, him being a bitter twat now doesnt change that. 

I was actually never his biggest fan so it’s not ‘revisionist crap’ in my case. I have my reasons. Also, no need to be rude.

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  • Chelsea have won three consecutive games against Spurs across all competitions for the first time since January 2008 - current Spurs boss José Mourinho oversaw two of the three wins in that previous run (2-1 in March 2007 and 1-0 in April 2007).
  • Chelsea kept an away clean sheet for the first time under Frank Lampard in the Premier League, while they won without conceding away from home in the competition for the first time since December 2018 (1-0 v Crystal Palace at Selhurst Park).
  • Since Jose Mourinho's first game in charge of the club, no Premier League team have conceded more goals than Spurs across all competitions (14 - joint-most, along with Arsenal).
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What a performance, completely dominated them from start to finish, should have scored more, and don't recall Kepa made a save the whole game. Tactically Lampard was spot on, and players implemented his system perfectly. I thought Alonso was outstanding, considering many believed he's on the way out and may never play for Chelsea again. Willian is stepping up, I mean last time Hazard scored 2 goals to win against top 6 team, fans worshiped him, why not more love and a new contract for Willian? The backline looked solid with Rudiger in charge. I'm not sure the 3421 is to be the default formation, but it's the first time a system worked against a top 6 team, so..

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1 hour ago, Spiller86 said:

Bossed them start to finish. Willian with the moment of quality that broke down Jose's strategy of waiting for us to make a mistake. 

Our first really big win over a good team. We need to build on this now and put our typical winter blues behind us. 

Although it was irritating losing the games we've competed well in every big game we've faced and it was only a matter of time before the law of averages gave us a win.

Hopefully we can follow this up with a win at The Emirates next Sunday to truly cut away the big game stigma that's strangely following us.

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I do think Lampard’s willingness to be tactically flexible gives the ability to surprise the opponent. And surprise us a key to success. The formation in this game and the sudden return of Alonso from the wilderness surprised me for sure. And it worked so well. 

Edited by ozboy
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5 minutes ago, dkw said:

So you don't think he was a very good manager? 

He was a very successful manager, yes. He was our most successful manager. No argument there.

But that doesn’t mean he was the ‘best’. I think you do have to consider things like how much money a manager has available to him, compared to the others, in assessing their quality. Looked at from that angle, I have to question how good Guardiola and Zidane really are as managers. We don’t know.

You also have to consider all sorts of counterfactuals. Like what if Ranieri had been given more time? The season before Mourinho (2003-2004), first of the Roman era / Ranieri’s last, we came second in the league and reached the CL semis. He’s the one that had to build a team with all those new players and work under constant speculation about getting the chop, acting like a gentleman throughout. Mourinho came in and was given more money to spend. He won the premier league. Might Ranieri not have won It too,  and possibly more trophies had he stayed on? People said he wasn’t a ‘winner’, but he did go on to win the league with a weaker Leicester side.

Looking at a couple of others - what if Hiddink or Ancelotti had been appointed at the same time as Mourinho, might they not have achieved at least as much?  

Again, the question is who our ‘best’ manager was, not the most successful. I would argue that Hiddink, Ancelotti and Conte are all better than Mourinho (though Conte has similar personality issues to Mourinho that raise questions), certainly as football coaches (that was never Mourinho’s strength imo) and all could have achieved at least as much success had they been appointed at the same time (Conte via some time machine).

And this is before we even get to Mourinho’s many flaws, some of them fatal, such as his narcissistic personality disorder. This has GUARANTEED ultimate failure wherever he’s been - twice with us, Man U, Real... it WILL happen at Tottenham too.. Imagine if we’d had to stick with him those years he got fired. Could have been absolutely disastrous, outright mutiny in the dressing room etc.

so in short I think it’s debatable. I am grateful to him for the successes. but I was grateful to Ranieri too, who was treated really poorly and without whose success of getting us into the CLthe Roman era may never have happened. There is a valid argument that Mourinho was in the right place at the right time.

 

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What we have to remember is that our younger players are still learning, we also have a new style and tactics to adapt to as well so it was always going to be a season where things won't always go as well as we want them to. I'm so glad we aren't as one dimensional as we were under Sarri.

For me yesterdays game was a tactical masterclass from Frank and it was a massive credit to the whole team to put everything in to making it work. I really think the formation really suited us personally and gets the best out players like Alonso who was fantastic.

Onwards and upwards, COYB!!

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9 minutes ago, Malcolm9 said:

What we have to remember is that our younger players are still learning, we also have a new style and tactics to adapt to as well so it was always going to be a season where things won't always go as well as we want them to. I'm so glad we aren't as one dimensional as we were under Sarri.

For me yesterdays game was a tactical masterclass from Frank and it was a massive credit to the whole team to put everything in to making it work. I really think the formation really suited us personally and gets the best out players like Alonso who was fantastic.

Onwards and upwards, COYB!!

Agree and our first away match where we did not concede.

 

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1 hour ago, Argo said:

Although it was irritating losing the games we've competed well in every big game we've faced and it was only a matter of time before the law of averages gave us a win.

Hopefully we can follow this up with a win at The Emirates next Sunday to truly cut away the big game stigma that's strangely following us.

Competing isn't winning. We've made poor errors in each big match this season. Sometimes we've made multiple errors. This was the first big match beyond Liverpool in the Super Cup that I think we played well in. 

Hopefully we can beat Arsenal next week which might end this awful run and give us confidence for the rest of the season.

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38 minutes ago, Spiller86 said:

Competing isn't winning. We've made poor errors in each big match this season. Sometimes we've made multiple errors. This was the first big match beyond Liverpool in the Super Cup that I think we played well in. 

Hopefully we can beat Arsenal next week which might end this awful run and give us confidence for the rest of the season.

Sometimes part of building a side is not winning all the time but seeing the signs going forward, sometimes you have to sacrifice points for the greater good. For example, we could have got a result against Liverpool by camping in our box however it wouldn't have got us anywhere in the grand scheme of things, 1/3 points up in the table but in terms of actually competing with Liverpool properly a giant step back. Despite the result that game left me with huge confidence we will eventually compete with Liverpool in the table.

I think the fact we've gone toe to toe with the two best teams in Europe and not looked slightly out of our depth this early in our rebuild outstanding.

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3 hours ago, dkw said:

Stop with this revisionist crap, he's the best manager we've ever had, him being a bitter twat now doesnt change that. 

For me it does, it changes a lot. He never really cared about this club, he showed it in so many ways, he cared about himself and his ego. Other managers kept good relations and respect with their former clubs, Jose burned down as many bridges as he could when it came to us, but he never acted the same towards Inter for example.

It's like Ibrahimovic that for some odd reason got a statue in his home city just recently, where he spent maybe one or two years and then went to Ajax, he was seen as a homegrown legend there even if he never cared about that team, and recently he bought 25% ownership or something like that, from a very popular club from Stockholm and the fans from his home city in the south tried to totally destroy his new statue.

You show with your actions and with your heart and attitude if you're the best, winning isn't everything, Jose got kicked out from our club more than anyone else and that doesn't show that he's the greatest, it's not hard to win when given all the money in the world, we've seen it now with Pep and Klopp as well.

Edited by Gol15
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3 hours ago, Dean said:

I was actually never his biggest fan so it’s not ‘revisionist crap’ in my case. I have my reasons. Also, no need to be rude.

He has been very successful and nobody can deny that. However, it is interesting to see how he hasn't been able to adapt as well since these new revolutionary coaches have come on the scene. Pep schooled him in Spain and here in England. Klopp has also done the same.

I feel like the old school managers like Mourinho, Ancelotti, Van Gaal have failed to adapt their tactics and this has been their downfalls in the past 5+ seasons. 

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7 hours ago, erskblue said:

Chelsea forward Willian

Some game yesterday !::ChElSeaFLag::

Spuds 0-2 The good guys !:biggrin:

Bloody hell, still buzzing from yesterday, from the pre match beers Liverpool Street, the journey on the train with all the singing Chelsea, the police escort to the ground, the atmosphere in ground, the game itself, wonderful performance!! then the march back round the streets to the underground thanks to the met police and obvious piss take as we went past Spurs pubs, walked the dog this morning humming and singing "Tomori at the back, Tammy in attack". Happy Bloody Christmas UTC

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