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coco

Chelsea v Man Utd (PL) Mon 17th Feb 20:00 GMT

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8 minutes ago, The Don Antonio said:

         He is good on the ball and  a f**king liability without it,  just like Christensen.. Hopefully they are both sold next season to leagues that will appreciate their qualities but I don't think they have the balls for the premiership. Just toooooo soft

Try and tell him that to his face

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Pointless Having VAR If The Person Behind It Has A Different View To Another Person, Either Get Everyone To Agree On Certain Parameters And Actually Have The Refs Use Pitchside Monitors, That's What They Are There For

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As others have alluded to, last nights game left a sour taste after the VAR controversy. Zouma's goal should've stood and Maguire should've been off. Those things do affect the momentum of the game as well as the scoreboard and the obvious numerical advantage of 11v10. 

In terms of the game itself, I didn't think we played particularly well against what looked to be a really poor United team. I thought Batshuayi was by far the worst player on the pitch, closely followed by Pedro. A lot of dribbling in the middle of the pitch from Kovacic, which always looks nice, but as usual his final ball was often poor. Very little creativity again in midfield, even when Mason Mount came on. I noticed a few times that Mount seemed to want to wait for the ball to run across his body before taking it forward, he got caught out a few times by not collecting the ball first and then turning. 

At the back we were typically vulnerable to crosses/set pieces. We must've conceded more goals from crosses this season than most teams in the league? At the point Maguire heads the ball I don't think Rudiger's feet have even left the floor. I think Christensen was a little unfortunate given he'd only just got back on after his injury, but it's not unusual for him to be too lightweight in those situations.

Once again Reece James looked like our most creative player (which is pleasing in a sense and worrying in another). I was pleasantly surprised to see Azpi stay on his left foot a couple of times as well and go on the outside, rather than turn back and play the ball infield like he often does when he plays LB. Giroud offered considerably more than Batshuayi when he came on too - he surely has to start against them at the weekend?! Just about the only 3 positives I can gleam from the game.

Onwards and upwards for Spuds at the weekend!

 

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In that ESPN video posted earlier, that is probably the first time I've heard Craig Burley talk and not thought "Shut up, you tosser". When he speaks up for us, you know we have just been utterly shafted.

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1 hour ago, Slojo said:

See I knew you were on a wind up! 

When 'my boy' is on the bench, i trawl the forum for Kovacic boys to trigger, it brightens up a miserable morning.

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3 minutes ago, coco said:

When 'my boy' is on the bench, i trawl the forum for Kovacic boys to trigger, it brightens up a miserable morning.

So basically, me, Sindre and Davey Baby 

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So this ref last night was the same one who was f**king terrible in the spurs game, giving a goal kick instead of the obvious penalty?

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Maybe it is too much to ask, but have the top leagues in the different countries ever considered, or ever have, used referees from different countries, like what is done in the CL?   To me, the player level in the Premier league is the best in Europe, but the English referees are so piss-poor as to dampen the quality of play in my opinion.

Is there a rule that the refs and linespersons must be English to do PL matches?  I would think not, and I would hope that one day the FA would consider bringing in some referees from outside of English, such as Italian and/or Spanish referees.  The insipid quality of the English referees is just making me sick, to be honest.   Seeing fat referees like John Moss run up and down the pitch, makes me worried that he will drop and die right there on the pitch.   And he is actually one of the better PL referees, which for many reasons is shocking to consider.

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10 minutes ago, dkw said:

So this ref last night was the same one who was f**king terrible in the spurs game, giving a goal kick instead of the obvious penalty?

Yes, the same ref that red carded Son for an identical challenge to Maguires, both players on their back and purposely thrusting their boot upwards into a players groin, both lifting their backside off the ground to achieve it, same ref, one incident a red card, the other nothing.

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1 minute ago, coco said:

Yes, the same ref that red carded Son for an identical challenge to Maguires, both players on their back and purposely thrusting their boot upwards into a players groin, both lifting their backside off the ground to achieve it, same ref, one incident a red card, the other nothing.

Jesus, that really is disgraceful. I honestly wish the club would just say f**k it, we want to know what the hell is going on and how this ref keeps robbing us. He`s either f**king useless and shouldnt ref at this level or cheating simple and shouldnt ref full stop.

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1 minute ago, dkw said:

Jesus, that really is disgraceful. I honestly wish the club would just say f**k it, we want to know what the hell is going on and how this ref keeps robbing us. He`s either f**king useless and shouldnt ref at this level or cheating simple and shouldnt ref full stop.

Read this bollocks by Dermot Gallagher, says it's the wrong call, but still protects the referee and VAR......

DERMOT SAYS: "[I'm surprised] he escapes any colour card. What I would say is that I'm very surprised he didn't face any punishment. Anthony [Taylor] didn't think it was a red card because he's seen it from another angle.

"It goes to VAR, and the VAR [Chris Kavanagh] has to decide if it was a red card and he thinks no. The problem then is that he cannot recommend a yellow card, so it goes back to free kick only. That's where Anthony was snookered a bit.

"My instant reaction was that it was a red card. The trouble is, when you watch things over and over again, you spot little bits of detail. Michy Batshuayi slips, Harry Maguire goes to ground and then his legs go up.

 

"He says it's to protect him from Batshuayi coming into him. They're very close, and VAR decided that the kick out was more petulant than violent. He said it didn't have the impact so therefore he couldn't award a red card.

"At that point, yellow card is ruled out. What I would say is, when you see that tackle, there has to be more punishment than a free kick only."

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What a massive load of sh*te, he sent of Son for the same f**king thing so how can he then say this ones a yellow. f**k football, I`m done.

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Tbh the only player I'm truly pissed off with for last night is Michy. 

Usually when we have a bad decision I'm quite accepting of the fact that what comes around goes around but last night we were simply shafted by incompetent officials.

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18 minutes ago, Phillip said:

Maybe it is too much to ask, but have the top leagues in the different countries ever considered, or ever have, used referees from different countries, like what is done in the CL?   To me, the player level in the Premier league is the best in Europe, but the English referees are so piss-poor as to dampen the quality of play in my opinion.

Is there a rule that the refs and linespersons must be English to do PL matches?  I would think not, and I would hope that one day the FA would consider bringing in some referees from outside of English, such as Italian and/or Spanish referees.  The insipid quality of the English referees is just making me sick, to be honest.   Seeing fat referees like John Moss run up and down the pitch, makes me worried that he will drop and die right there on the pitch.   And he is actually one of the better PL referees, which for many reasons is shocking to consider.

I actually agree with your point but in reality the logistics of flying in overseas refs would just not work. English refs are poor and interpretations used in VAR are sh*tter than sh*t.

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God, how many times we need to lose to this sack of sh*t. Utd are f**king useless, just happens we aren't much better right now. How THAT lot beat us 0-2 at home though, I don't know.

Put the chat of if Maguire should have been sent off to one side, we once again couldn't get more than a single damn shot on target. 17 shots! 17 f**king shots, but nothing comes of them. Batshuayi wouldn't have scored last night if he had two goals next to each other. 

Embarrassing to lose to that shower again. They've put 6 past us in two games in the league with not a single reply. How the hell does that happen?! 

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6 minutes ago, dkw said:

What a massive load of sh*te, he sent of Son for the same f**king thing so how can he then say this ones a yellow. f**k football, I`m done.

Son got a three-match ban as well, thats like four times as severe punishment to what Maguire gets. And don't forget that Taylor did call the foul against Maguire, so what did he see ? it could only be one thing that he saw, so why ask VAR if he sees it ?

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13 minutes ago, coco said:

Read this bollocks by Dermot Gallagher, says it's the wrong call, but still protects the referee and VAR......

DERMOT SAYS: "[I'm surprised] he escapes any colour card. What I would say is that I'm very surprised he didn't face any punishment. Anthony [Taylor] didn't think it was a red card because he's seen it from another angle.

"It goes to VAR, and the VAR [Chris Kavanagh] has to decide if it was a red card and he thinks no. The problem then is that he cannot recommend a yellow card, so it goes back to free kick only. That's where Anthony was snookered a bit.

"My instant reaction was that it was a red card. The trouble is, when you watch things over and over again, you spot little bits of detail. Michy Batshuayi slips, Harry Maguire goes to ground and then his legs go up.

 

"He says it's to protect him from Batshuayi coming into him. They're very close, and VAR decided that the kick out was more petulant than violent. He said it didn't have the impact so therefore he couldn't award a red card.

"At that point, yellow card is ruled out. What I would say is, when you see that tackle, there has to be more punishment than a free kick only."

Reading this really got me wound up. He kicked him in the balls. FFS if this was done at Sunday league level it would kick off big style. 

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Keane added: "Very lucky. A lucky boy. I didn’t agree that Son’s was a red card for Tottenham but it went to VAR and got given and with Maguire, maybe it is his personality because he is normally a calm guy that it isn’t given, but he definitely kicks out.

"It’s a red card. Maguire’s personality has probably helped him. Is he a nasty player? Probably not. The argument is all about consistency. If Son was sent off then so should Maguire."

 

Ex-MU players excusing Maguire, ex-referees excusing Taylor/VAR. Justice is lay on the floor murdered by a thousand knives.

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2 minutes ago, coco said:

Keane added: "Very lucky. A lucky boy. I didn’t agree that Son’s was a red card for Tottenham but it went to VAR and got given and with Maguire, maybe it is his personality because he is normally a calm guy that it isn’t given, but he definitely kicks out.

"It’s a red card. Maguire’s personality has probably helped him. Is he a nasty player? Probably not. The argument is all about consistency. If Son was sent off then so should Maguire."

 

Ex-MU players excusing Maguire, ex-referees excusing Taylor/VAR. Justice is lay on the floor murdered by a thousand knives.

Personality N All Shouldn't Be Taken Into Consideration, That's Just A sh*t Cop Out, If A Challenge Is Deemed Worthy Of A Red Then It Should Be Given

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I'm sceptical that using foreign referees would have any improvement on the refereeing standards in England. If anything, I'd expect fans to be constantly on their backs for blowing for soft free-kicks and 'not letting the game flow', as we usually see whenver we play in Europe.

I also found Dermot Gallagher's explanation quite reasonable. It's hardly a defence of VAR when he's basically saying the current VAR system is too limited/black-and-white, and "when you see that tackle, there has to be more punishment than a free kick only." He suggests it should have been a yellow at least but the VAR system is just RED: YES OR NO, which is a problem if Kavanagh thinks it's somewhere in between.

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45 minutes ago, coco said:

Keane added: "Very lucky. A lucky boy. I didn’t agree that Son’s was a red card for Tottenham but it went to VAR and got given and with Maguire, maybe it is his personality because he is normally a calm guy that it isn’t given, but he definitely kicks out.

"It’s a red card. Maguire’s personality has probably helped him. Is he a nasty player? Probably not. The argument is all about consistency. If Son was sent off then so should Maguire."

 

Ex-MU players excusing Maguire, ex-referees excusing Taylor/VAR. Justice is lay on the floor murdered by a thousand knives.

I think in this case Keane is agreeing that Maguire got away with one and was very lucky. His previous reputation probably helped him whereas Son had already been in trouble with refs this season. Now that this incident has been been given a lot of viewing I doubt Maguire would get the same benefit of doubt from a ref if this happens again. Unfortunately that doesn't help us in retrospective as that decision ultimately had a huge bearing on the overall game last night. If he is correctly shown red United have to play the bulk of the game with 10, and it was 0-0 at the time. Not to mention they lose their captain on the field. As we saw with the Arsenal game that doesn't guarantee anything but it would have skewed the balance in our favor on a night when we started the game with an injury-weakened team.

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32 minutes ago, bluedave said:

I'm sceptical that using foreign referees would have any improvement on the refereeing standards in England. If anything, I'd expect fans to be constantly on their backs for blowing for soft free-kicks and 'not letting the game flow', as we usually see whenver we play in Europe.

I also found Dermot Gallagher's explanation quite reasonable. It's hardly a defence of VAR when he's basically saying the current VAR system is too limited/black-and-white, and "when you see that tackle, there has to be more punishment than a free kick only." He suggests it should have been a yellow at least but the VAR system is just RED: YES OR NO, which is a problem if Kavanagh thinks it's somewhere in between.

Gallagher's suggestion is reasonable when it comes to the fact that VAR is powerless to suggest a yellow rather than red or nothing. However I don't think it provides any explanation as to how their could be doubt in the mind of the VAR reviewer in this case. This was looked at by a lot of pundits and most neutrals agree this was a clear red. Gallagher seems to be trying desperately to use Maguire's defence and that was laughed off by the ex-pros who were reviewing the game. He knew what he was doing and it was deliberate. 

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