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Ziyech is the most disappointing of the new recruits so far for me. An established player, goal every three appearances in his career, producing a goal every ten appearances for us ... recruitment from the Dutch league is either feast or famine ... so bizarre ...

 

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To me, the worst part so far has been not the lack of quality but rather his attitude. It's understandable if a player struggles in his first season in a new league, but Ziyech looks like he couldn't give a rat's arse, which is odd for someone who is yet to establish himself in a new club. The guy's just a lazy. Say what you want about someone like Werner, who's also struggling, but his effort is never in question.

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I think we've seen about 3% of what we we were hoping for from Ziyech and Havertz so far. We keep waiting for their Chelsea careers to start, but I am growing increasingly pessimistic they ever will. Chuck in Werner's horrendous form ( after a promising start), and Pulisic's disaster of a season, and it's fair to say those four big signings have been an unbelievable let-down this season.

After the likes of Bakayoko, Morata and Drinkwater, I was feeling pretty good about our recruitment, but bloody hell...

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4 minutes ago, Backbiter said:

I think we've seen about 3% of what we we were hoping for from Ziyech and Havertz so far. We keep waiting for their Chelsea careers to start, but I am growing increasingly pessimistic they ever will. Chuck in Werner's horrendous form ( after a promising start), and Pulisic's disaster of a season, and it's fair to say those four big signings have been an unbelievable let-down this season.

After the likes of Bakayoko, Morata and Drinkwater, I was feeling pretty good about our recruitment, but bloody hell...

You forgot Kepa 🙂

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15 minutes ago, forbzy said:

He looked good up until his injury in late November. He hasn't looked the same since returning. Not sure what is going on. He came back in the middle of our bad patch and has struggled to find any form since. 

Prior to his injury, Lamps had clearly settled on his starting lineup, with Silva, Chilwell, Werner, Mendy  and Ziyech looking right at home and the team was on a great run. His absence from the team coincided with the catastrophic run that cost Lamps his job, and Ziyech now looks lost. As do Chilwell and Werner. Havertz no doubt looks lost, too, if we could get a look at him.

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On 20/02/2021 at 14:37, Term_X said:

Well, Chelsea isn’t a club ran by football people, so being awful from the beginning isn’t that far away from reality. Lit up a farmers league in his ‘late’ twenties, no other clubs in Europe wanted him, giant ego, bad attitude, lazy, skinny little twig legs and no physicality, can’t shoot but every so often can lazy around and pick out a genius ball time to time.

Bayern wanted him the season before... the move did not materialize. 

Arsenal had a free shot at Aubameyang. Look at his goalscoring record in the league. United had a free shot at Fernandes. Look how that has turned out. Fernandes is skinny. Imagine if United had that attitude because he is skinny he will not work in the league....

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59 minutes ago, Zeta said:

Do you remember when we are all so optimistic at the start of the season, signing Werner, Havertz, Ziyech, looking forward to a new season with Frank. Simpler times.

Yes, now though there is slight concern this window may end up as bad as the window we got Baka and Drinkwater in.

Most of us still harbor hope for Kai and Timo, but so far the only signings we made that would be given a hit rather than flop tag are Silva and Mendy imo, the latter simply because he is better than the world most expensive flop. Even Chilwell has gone from looking good to being behind Alonso who cannot defend for toffee and despite being useless yesterday stayed on all game. That says a lot about what TT thinks of him imo.

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12 hours ago, just said:

 "Form is temporary, class is permanent" . I like that Brutos. I'll have to try and use that in future.

If you believe the papers, he doesn't want to be here. If you look at him on the pitch, he looks like he doesn't want to be here.

I do wonder if he doesn't want to be here.

Please don't. It has to be one of the most overused and meaningless cliches ever spouted by pundits, journalists and sadly some 'fans' in the last few years.

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It is true though to a certain extent, class players who do get injured fall off and sometimes they never recover I'm hoping Hazard for example isn't one of them....we all know what he can do regardless of his form (see goal vs spurs 2016).

12 minutes ago, WeatherMan said:

Please don't. It has to be one of the most overused and meaningless cliches ever spouted by pundits, journalists and sadly some 'fans' in the last few years.

Ziyech is horribly out of form but I have no doubt were he to move in the summer,  we would be watching him banging in goals for whoever and assisting like a man possessed.

Doesn't mean that he can do it here in the prem though, but based off his form earlier on I'd say he can and hopefully will. It just doesn't help Tommy's formation really doesn't suit his style of play.

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13 hours ago, WeatherMan said:

Please don't. It has to be one of the most overused and meaningless cliches ever spouted by pundits, journalists and sadly some 'fans' in the last few years.

Sorry weatherman. I use it regularly at work. Whenever my boss boll*cks me for fuc*king up!

Form is temporary, class is permanent.

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If Tuchel persists with the current 3-4-2-1 Christmas tree formation, then Ziyech is definitely suited (on paper 🙂 ) to one of the central attacking midfield/forward roles. Whether he is a better candidate than Mount, Havertz, Werner, Pulisic, and CHO is up for debate of course !

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2 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

If Tuchel persists with the current 3-4-2-1 Christmas tree formation, then Ziyech is definitely suited (on paper 🙂 ) to one of the central attacking midfield/forward roles. Whether he is a better candidate than Mount, Havertz, Werner, Pulisic, and CHO is up for debate of course !

Long term I don't think Tuchel can afford to continue playing 3-4-3. 

It works against the majority of the players we've recently invested so heavily in. Tuchel's already said Werner is better suited to playing behind the main striker rather than as the focal point of the attack. So you have one other attacking position available between Mount, Havertz, Pulisic, CHO and Ziyech. 

Short term you can get the squad buying into the "greater good" of that formation but it won't be long before those 6 attacking players, fighting over 2 positions, begin to get quite restless. 

Tuchel's going to have to switch to a 4-4-2/4-3-3 variation at some point in my opinion. 

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His passing range could be useful in a game like Athletico. In this 343 a few tweaks could be made to get the best out of Ziyech allowing him to start wider as one of the front 3 and have the winger play a little more narrow and deeper (most likely James). This is assuming he comes of the bench for some mins as sadly due to recent performances its unlikely he starts.

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20 hours ago, Backbiter said:

Prior to his injury, Lamps had clearly settled on his starting lineup, with Silva, Chilwell, Werner, Mendy  and Ziyech looking right at home and the team was on a great run. His absence from the team coincided with the catastrophic run that cost Lamps his job, and Ziyech now looks lost. As do Chilwell and Werner. Havertz no doubt looks lost, too, if we could get a look at him.

From that list I agree that Chilwell and Ziyech currently look lost. TT has yet to figure out how to use them effectively it seems, and both are now only being used from the bench. Werner is a different case since he really hasn't lost his spot for more than a game or 2 over the whole season, despite playing poorly frequently. There seems to be this continual hope that he will suddenly rediscover his goals. Certainly he doesn't fail for lack of trying and some of it is related to confidence. However I really think that both Werner and Havertz do not fit with our system. Probably Ziyech too. Unless we are prepared to play a different system we are unlikely to see the best from these players. 

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3 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Long term I don't think Tuchel can afford to continue playing 3-4-3. 

It works against the majority of the players we've recently invested so heavily in. Tuchel's already said Werner is better suited to playing behind the main striker rather than as the focal point of the attack. So you have one other attacking position available between Mount, Havertz, Pulisic, CHO and Ziyech. 

Short term you can get the squad buying into the "greater good" of that formation but it won't be long before those 6 attacking players, fighting over 2 positions, begin to get quite restless. 

Tuchel's going to have to switch to a 4-4-2/4-3-3 variation at some point in my opinion. 

Honestly I'm not quite sure what kind of back 4 formation would really cater to our strengths, considering Werner seemingly needs a focal point next to him to strive. So we either ditch Werner or try to find a magic formation that allows us to play 4 at the back, 2 up front and still integrate Mount. Because contrary to popular belief, I don't consider Mount an ideal fit for the double pivot, he's getting better and better in the no. 10 position and that's where I see his future.

Now I don't find the idea of 3-4-3 as a long-term plan so off-putting. Recently we've clearly been lacking some spark because we've expected the likes of Werner+Giroud/Abraham+Mount+Alonso+Kovacic+Jorginho+James to create sth together. But here is how I believe this could work:

- Make Havertz Werner's striking partner. Give him the freedom to alternate between dropping deep and using his height and finishing in the box to frustrate the opponents

- Give Chilwell the time to find his ways on LWB. He possesses everything it takes to excel in that position so it would be ridiculous to write him off in this formation.

- Give CHO time to find his ways on RWB

- Try out James as CM next to Kovacic. I feel like he might just turn out to be a world beater in that position

- Make use of the ridiculous strength of our attacking squad by switching between 3-4-1-2 and 3-4-2-1, thereby staying unpredictable for the opponents. E.g. with our current squad...

 

--------Werner-Havertz--------

------------Mount-------------

Chilwell--James-Kovacic---CHO

---Rüdiger----Silva----Azpi----

 

--------Abraham/Giroud--------

-----Pulisic-----------Ziyech----

Alonso-Kovacic-Jorginho-James

----Rüdiger----Silva----Azpi----

 

Gotta say I find both these line-ups pretty alluring...

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16 hours ago, Luiz4Chelsea said:

Honestly I'm not quite sure what kind of back 4 formation would really cater to our strengths, considering Werner seemingly needs a focal point next to him to strive. So we either ditch Werner or try to find a magic formation that allows us to play 4 at the back, 2 up front and still integrate Mount. Because contrary to popular belief, I don't consider Mount an ideal fit for the double pivot, he's getting better and better in the no. 10 position and that's where I see his future.

Off the top of my head you'd line up something along the lines of:

James - Silva - Rudiger - Chilwell

                 Jorginho

           Mount - Havertz

      Ziyech - Werner - CHO

 

You have the likes of Havertz pressing forward ahead of Werner so he can drop deep, run that left channel he likes to get into and then play off of Havertz who effectively becomes a false 9. 

Obviously some of those players are interchangable with others in the squad, Pulisic could play on either wing. Kovacic and Kante can play in either the hllding midfield role or box to box. 

There's other variations on that whether it's a 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-2 but by switching to one of those formations it better utliises the depth of attack minded players we have rather than leaning on more defesive players that the current preferred formation does. 

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28 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Off the top of my head you'd line up something along the lines of:

James - Silva - Rudiger - Chilwell

                 Jorginho

           Mount - Havertz

      Ziyech - Werner - CHO

 

You have the likes of Havertz pressing forward ahead of Werner so he can drop deep, run that left channel he likes to get into and then play off of Havertz who effectively becomes a false 9. 

Obviously some of those players are interchangable with others in the squad, Pulisic could play on either wing. Kovacic and Kante can play in either the hllding midfield role or box to box. 

There's other variations on that whether it's a 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-2 but by switching to one of those formations it better utliises the depth of attack minded players we have rather than leaning on more defesive players that the current preferred formation does. 

Yeah but what I like about a 4-3-3 is the dominance in the middle, dream example being Ballack-Essien-Lampard. Now Mount-Jorginho-Havertz (who's supposed to act as a false 9) simply lacks presence. Unless we discover the perfect midfielder I believe Mount will require two CMs to live up to his enormous potential. Now under those assumptions we don't actually use more of our attacking depth. I would picture...

 

Werner----Havertz------CHO

--Mount---James---Kovacic-

Chilwell-Rüdiger-Silva---Azpi

 

... which is the same personnel as...

 

-------Werner-Havertz--------

-----------Mount-------------

Chilwell-Kovacic-James---CHO

---Rüdiger--Silva---Azpi-------

Edited by Luiz4Chelsea
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