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9 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

Selfless player, whose pace means he is always a threat. Cracking composure for the first goal as well, which was good to see. He did well. I would like to see him get some chances a bit more centrally, he always seems to have a shot from a tight angle, but he is getting in decent positions.

 

The number of runs he makes, both off the ball, and chasing it down, is immense.  Leading from the front!

 

Great job Turbo.

 

 

Agreed Jim, but a lot of that is down to him I think. I've noticed that when he is on the right hand side and faces an opponent up, 1 v 1, he nearly always takes the ball outside on his right, away from the goal, which makes the angle tighter. If he could move it inside with his left it would open up the angle and make the target bigger.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I know it's awful to say given his recent improvements under Tuchel but I think Timo Werner is done as a top-tier striker - at Chelsea.

He has the raw assets to be a top class player but it's just not going to happen at Chelsea. His problems are entirely mental and until he leaves Chelsea and spends some time out of the National Team spotlights he will never be given the space to recover his latent ability. We can't blame injuries or tactics because Werner is doing everything perfectly correctly except finishing the ample chances provided to him.

There are just some forwards who inexplicably just don't work out at a *particular* club but time out of the spotlight sees them hit renewed heights. Diego Forlan at Man U, Ibrahimovic at Barca, Salah at Chelsea, etc. 

 

I have no doubt that Werner will rediscover his touch elsewhere, but it's not going to be here.

 

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It's funny because whilst he should score its also easy to see why he doesn't and as long as he knows its not that big of a deal. Timo seems to be best when he takes a touch before shooting and often miss 1v1 when he doesn't control the ball properly. 

I think he just needs to work on his finishing, he's actually a much better dribbler than I originally thought as well as passer. His first touch can often let him down but he often mitigates this by being through 1v1 with space to work with.

Its why his struggles with the low block are well documented he has no time on the ball to get his finish under control. This time difference from the Bundesliga to epl has definitely played its part in his downturn in form.

I'm not going to defend his recent form because as stats point out he's contributed the most combined goals and assists for us this season in pretty much his worst personal season.

Tbh as sad as I am to see Lukaku, KDB and Salah not only play for other teams but pretty much perform at MVP levels it has made me realise that patience could be something we as club could do more with not only with managers but players also.

I won't lie and say I knew they would reach that level, the only one at the time I generally cared about losing was Romelu. I didn't know much about the other two but had actively followed him since he loved Drogba so much and wanted to play for us.

Hindsight is a funny thing. Whilst our scouts and recruitment team have their fair share of failures. They have signed some good talent over the years. There was a reason why Klopp and Flick wanted him. Timo is projected like some of the other talent we invested in, to be at the very top of the game in the future as well as the present.

Once Timo regains his confidence, Ziyech won't be the only one telling his haters to zip it. I trust TT has a plan for him.

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53 minutes ago, LongtimerLurker said:

It's funny because whilst he should score its also easy to see why he doesn't and as long as he knows its not that big of a deal. Timo seems to be best when he takes a touch before shooting and often miss 1v1 when he doesn't control the ball properly. 

I think he just needs to work on his finishing, he's actually a much better dribbler than I originally thought as well as passer. His first touch can often let him down but he often mitigates this by being through 1v1 with space to work with.

Its why his struggles with the low block are well documented he has no time on the ball to get his finish under control. This time difference from the Bundesliga to epl has definitely played its part in his downturn in form.

I'm not going to defend his recent form because as stats point out he's contributed the most combined goals and assists for us this season in pretty much his worst personal season.

Tbh as sad as I am to see Lukaku, KDB and Salah not only play for other teams but pretty much perform at MVP levels it has made me realise that patience could be something we as club could do more with not only with managers but players also.

I won't lie and say I knew they would reach that level, the only one at the time I generally cared about losing was Romelu. I didn't know much about the other two but had actively followed him since he loved Drogba so much and wanted to play for us.

Hindsight is a funny thing. Whilst our scouts and recruitment team have their fair share of failures. They have signed some good talent over the years. There was a reason why Klopp and Flick wanted him. Timo is projected like some of the other talent we invested in, to be at the very top of the game in the future as well as the present.

Once Timo regains his confidence, Ziyech won't be the only one telling his haters to zip it. I trust TT has a plan for him.

I don't that is actually the case, to the extent that people claim it is. In the video you shared you can see a large % of his goals are instinctive, first-time finishes. There is a current media narrative that Lampard's system stopped Werner from getting chances to shoot, but that couldn't be further from the truth. Werner has missed 16 "big chances" and continues to take shots every game. Unlike Morata, Torres or even Costa when he went AWOL, no one can fault Werner's effort or eagerness to get involved. There just isn't a lot of good evidence to nail Werner's failures down to a physical, technical or tactical cause, but it is simply he is unable to finish chances right now. The man needs a mental break, a reset, a fresh start. He's not going to get that Chelsea, least of all if he goes to the Euros and Germany fails.

The problem is that unless he provides goals he is a sub-optimal option to start over a fully-fit Pulisic or Hudson-Odoi, let alone Mount. If Havertz continues his improvement and Ziyech regains some semblance of form Werner's position is then even more precarious. Don't get me wrong - I love the guy, and I would happily have him as a squad player if he wanted to stay, but I feel that Werner isn't going to be the player he should be at Chelsea, and Chelsea need a more potent option too.

 

Edited by SydneyChelsea
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3 hours ago, SydneyChelsea said:

I don't that is actually the case, to the extent that people claim it is. In the video you shared you can see a large % of his goals are instinctive, first-time finishes. There is a current media narrative that Lampard's system stopped Werner from getting chances to shoot, but that couldn't be further from the truth. Werner has missed 16 "big chances" and continues to take shots every game. Unlike Morata, Torres or even Costa when he went AWOL, no one can fault Werner's effort or eagerness to get involved. There just isn't a lot of good evidence to nail Werner's failures down to a physical, technical or tactical cause, but it is simply he is unable to finish chances right now. The man needs a mental break, a reset, a fresh start. He's not going to get that Chelsea, least of all if he goes to the Euros and Germany fails.

The problem is that unless he provides goals he is a sub-optimal option to start over a fully-fit Pulisic or Hudson-Odoi, let alone Mount. If Havertz continues his improvement and Ziyech regains some semblance of form Werner's position is then even more precarious. Don't get me wrong - I love the guy, and I would happily have him as a squad player if he wanted to stay, but I feel that Werner isn't going to be the player he should be at Chelsea, and Chelsea need a more potent option too.

 

I personally will give him another year. 

The biggest question for me is what Tuchel want to do with this team. Because how he setup the team will impact which of our attacker will play better. 

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On 17/03/2021 at 22:23, Gol15 said:

I said before the game that we could use his pace and we really did, happy for him.

Timo is now on 10 goals and 7 assists - that makes him directly involved in our goals the most, essential for our squad at this point even if he does miss shots.

Look at who the goals were agains't though to put things into perspective.

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11 minutes ago, Bluesince66 said:

I would ship him out,how many more times can you say he will come good,I believe the board regally F**ked up with our signings last summer,especially for the money spent.

He scored 28 in 34 games last season. Clearly he has it in him, I think he’s a streaky sort of player. Once he gets a few goals he’ll keep going.

Not good seeing that miss last night though.

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On 01/04/2021 at 06:34, dansubrosa said:

He scored 28 in 34 games last season. Clearly he has it in him, I think he’s a streaky sort of player. Once he gets a few goals he’ll keep going.

Not good seeing that miss last night though.

 

It'd be interesting to see how many chances he has per game with RBL last season. I am sure he won't get that many chances with Chelsea or the German team.

 

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34 minutes ago, haviet1 said:

 

It'd be interesting to see how many chances he has per game with RBL last season. I am sure he won't get that many chances with Chelsea or the German team.

 

Not to mention the mental and psychological baggage he is carrying now. If he missed a few playing for RBL big deal he was always likely to get another. In the prem every miss has become a black mark against his name.

I also think its unfair how pundits (not that many just a few) have claimed it's his fault Lamps is out of the job. It's a team game for a good reason, whilst individual mistakes and choices do effect the outcome placing the blame on one individual is ludicrous. No one was really performing to the level expected except maybe Mason. Add in the injuries and it was bad luck.

Frank chose to drop a lot of the senior players and therefore whatever happens he has to take some responsibility for team selections.

It's almost like because they earn so much money they're entitled to just get picked on. I get if you miss an easy chance you make yourself a target especially when its a recurring issue.

But, like Frank said in one of his final pressers its a confirmation bias put out by the media and other fans just willing and waiting for us and Timo to mess up. TT says he'll start against West Brom so expect Timo to repay the faith be it a goal, an assist or just the work rate required to help us win the game.

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2 hours ago, Zeta said:

I don't understand why this is happening so much with our strikers. Shevchenko, Torres, Morata, Werner, plus many others.

Shevchenko was understandable. It's always a risk signing a 30 year old from a different league, especially Serie A, a league that is so different from the Premier League. He also didn't look quite right in the world cup either, like he had lost his spark.

Torres was just ruined by injuries. He didn't have that electric pace and power he had at Liverpool.

Morata was never good. I don't know how he has managed to play for so many top teams in his career.

Werner's problems are down to both him and the system. There is no excusing his missed chances, but we always knew he was that kind of player, he was the same at Leipzig. The biggest issue with Werner is that we don't play like Leipzig. We couldn't play less to his strengths if we tried. Our build up play is slow, we don't create multiple goal scoring chances per game, we rarely try and play through balls into the attackers when they make the runs. None of this is compatible with Werner's game.

I think this has been the biggest issue with so many of our failed players over the years. This constant changing of the manager and bringing in players incompatible with the new managers system has been an issue time and time again. It's got to stop or this will keep happening. Bring in players that suit the managers needs, don't just sign a bunch of players that have good stats.

If we stick with Tuchel going forward, then we may as well sell Werner and get our money back, because he's not going to succeed with Tuchel in charge, not unless Tuchel has different plans for how he sets us up next season.

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2 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

Shevchenko was understandable. It's always a risk signing a 30 year old from a different league, especially Serie A, a league that is so different from the Premier League. He also didn't look quite right in the world cup either, like he had lost his spark.

Torres was just ruined by injuries. He didn't have that electric pace and power he had at Liverpool.

Morata was never good. I don't know how he has managed to play for so many top teams in his career.

Werner's problems are down to both him and the system. There is no excusing his missed chances, but we always knew he was that kind of player, he was the same at Leipzig. The biggest issue with Werner is that we don't play like Leipzig. We couldn't play less to his strengths if we tried. Our build up play is slow, we don't create multiple goal scoring chances per game, we rarely try and play through balls into the attackers when they make the runs. None of this is compatible with Werner's game.

I think this has been the biggest issue with so many of our failed players over the years. This constant changing of the manager and bringing in players incompatible with the new managers system has been an issue time and time again. It's got to stop or this will keep happening. Bring in players that suit the managers needs, don't just sign a bunch of players that have good stats.

If we stick with Tuchel going forward, then we may as well sell Werner and get our money back, because he's not going to succeed with Tuchel in charge, not unless Tuchel has different plans for how he sets us up next season.

Signing Bakayoko then Jorginho are the best example. Conte will never play Jorginho in his midfield, at the same time, Bakayoko will be a mess with Sari.

 

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I've been thinking for a while now that for a player whose biggest assest is his pace, he's not all that quick. I mean he should be able to look better in a race against an ancient Ivanovic. I remember him being a weak link in that regard even 5 years ago, when still playing for us.

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12 minutes ago, True Blue23 said:

I've been thinking for a while now that for a player whose biggest assest is his pace, he's not all that quick. I mean he should be able to look better in a race against an ancient Ivanovic. I remember him being a weak link in that regard even 5 years ago, when still playing for us.

Werner is rapid. 

Up against Ivanovic he never got the ball out from under his feet. 

Of all the things to criticise Werner for his pace isn't one of them. 

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9 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Werner is rapid. 

Up against Ivanovic he never got the ball out from under his feet. 

Of all the things to criticise Werner for his pace isn't one of them. 

He definetely is quick, but I don't think he's as quick as everybody's making him out to be. But yes you're right, in this situation he never got the ball out from under his feet, which due to his below average technique happens to him quite a lot, so maybe  this stops him from showing his pace more often.

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