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1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

I wonder @Nibs if we are looking for a goal will he use Giroud or Tammy? I am not sure, think more likely Ziyech and Havertz would be used.

Far as Werner practicing goes, no way he has not been for months already. Does nothing to help as the problem imo is in his head, he does not appear to trust himself and the pressure is mounted on him.

Giroud doesn't run them ragged and Havertz needs to step up on the big occasions. Havertz tends to shy away from physical battles

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13 minutes ago, Deino said:

Salah also put goalposts in his backyard and trained on his finishing. He always had the speed and movement but his finishing is subpar. 

Maybe Werner needs to practice shooting even in his free time?

Maybe, I don't know, whatever makes him better at it, I guess.

Your post remembered me of that Salah shot v Shrewsbury hahah

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4 hours ago, Argo said:

Yet when it truly came to crunch time Lampard favoured a striker who scored 5 PL goals in two years previously.

And he did the right thing because tammy was either injured or out of form in the 2nd half of the season. 

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7 hours ago, petre ispirescu said:

Salah's departure has thaught me a lesson not to rule players off that soon. I was sure he was just a skinny speed merchant that was maybe going to return to PL to play for Palace after years of failing for mid table Italian and French clubs. And look at him now after all these years. All he needed was a confidence boost, hope it's the case for Werner, too.

Salah was completely different case. In order to get the best out of salah you need to play salah in Werner role. Of course we couldn't  do that with Hazard. 

Btw Salah on the ball is far better then Werner 

Edited by Bob stark
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14 hours ago, coco said:

Do you also assume that the people supporting Pulisic are of Croatian descent?

Lets swap it around. using Pulisic this time, would you say "you must be of Croatian descent" ? no you wouldn't, you would assume they are American because his nationality is American, the country he plays for. 

Devils advocate here.  The NHL has a handful of black dudes.  I would assume that there are a higher percentage of black people who support black players in th NHL than white.  Tiger Woods had a demonstrable effect on the number of black fans of golf as well as black people playing golf.

I teach in a predominantly white rural school district.  We have a few Mexican descent  kids.  Any time I’ve asked them, they have unanimously said they are fans of the Mexican NT rather than USMNT.

A lot of rural whites liked Larry Bird.

We are tribal by nature and this is programmed in us through millions of years of evolution.  Ain’t nothing wrong with liking to see people whom you look like or have cultural ties to doing well.  It’s natural.

I assume blacks like PK Subban at a high percentage.

I assume Mexicans like Chicharito at a high percentage,

I assume whites like Larry Bird at a high percentage.

the NFL had a Vietnamese player named Dat Nguyen a few years ago and there were scads of Vietnamese people supporting the guy.

 

I wouldn’t assume and get all righteous when a dude asks a certain question.

I assumed my sons friends DAd from Manchester of Nigerian descent would have been a supporter of the Nigeria more than England, but he was passionately all about England and Said he wanted 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿  to beat the bloody hell out of Nigeria 🇳🇬 If they played.  So my assumption was wrong in that case but we had a nice laugh about it.

I tried to be a Sunderland fan a few years ago and we passionately wants Jozy to work out but he just wasn’t good enough.  Walter Payton, black NFL legend, is my boyhood idol and I hated  Bird who was raised 50 miles from me which probably equates to 5 miles in England.  Hated him because Doctor J, then Charles Barkley were my favorite players.

lighten up Francis.

 

 

 

 

Edited by DumbYank
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6 hours ago, Deino said:

Salah also put goalposts in his backyard and trained on his finishing. He always had the speed and movement but his finishing is subpar. 

Maybe Werner needs to practice shooting even in his free time?

How big is Werner's backyard?   

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10 hours ago, Ballack & Blu said:

Werner is going to transfer into a Salah, no doubting, you don't forget how to bury 38 in a season.....

 

The Bundesliga is not the EPL. Maybe he will never adjust. Regardless, that miss against Madrid is inexcusable.

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41 minutes ago, bluesfan said:

The Bundesliga is not the EPL. Maybe he will never adjust. Regardless, that miss against Madrid is inexcusable.

I can’t see how you can say that miss was inexcusable. Chances get missed. It’s not the specific chance that is troubling with Werner, it’s that there have been so many. Plus the numerous other clumsy incidents of tackling himself, stumbling on the ball etc.

Its really weird, because the way I see it is that he suits the way we play and does have some positive impact overall, but without contributing goals it’s very much undermined.

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A lot of people have been critical of Werner of late (A list which includes myself) but in the last 2 weeks I've seen our front line play against City and last night Mbappe and Neymar play against City and I have to say that Werner left everything out on the pitch whereas the same cannot be said of the PSG stars. We had some tough phases in our game against City and Werner dropped deep and kept pressing but last night the moment PSG went down to 10 men Mbappe and Neymar became disinterested and only came alive when their teammates won the ball back.

For all the criticism he receives the lad is incredible when pressing from the front and you combine that with the energy Mount brings and you can understand the reason why we are so difficult to play against.

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Werner breakaway goal or assist in coming during the second leg vs Madrid to repeat history like in 2012. Funny thing is if Werner has a good finish now til the end of the season we pretty much would be the best team in the world.

We can defend but lack a consistent goal scorer I see 2 outcomes either we fall short and Werner steps up next season, or we succeed and he kicks on next season when we try and challenge for the prem.

I expect him to come good he has too many positive aspects to be a flop. Its 100% confidence. If you compare him now to the start of the season he is a different man let alone player his conviction has gone.

 

 

Edited by LongtimerLurker
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7 minutes ago, LongtimerLurker said:

Werner breakaway goal or assist in coming during the second leg vs Madrid to repeat history like in 2012. Funny thing is if Werner has a good finish now til the end of the season we pretty much would be the best team in the world.

We can defend but lack a consistent goal scorer I see 2 outcomes either we fall short and Werner steps up next season, or we succeed and he kicks on next season when we try and challenge for the prem.

I expect him to come good he has too many positive aspects to be a flop. Its 100% confidence. If you compare him now to the start of the season he is a different man let alone player his conviction has gone.

 

 

Yup, his belief to score seems to have disappeared. The social media landscape is brutal towards him at the moment.

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2 hours ago, Spiller86 said:

Surely not Mod. Crespo was a top finisher, in the second spell in particular. 

I liked him a lot, I don’t think many fans didn’t. He scored a few stunning goals. The amount of times he was called offside when he wasn’t, cause he was so sharp on the line.

But, he wasn’t a Costa and maybe cause the time in his career when he came and the personal battles he fought while in London.

As for Timo, we keep hearing how the Prem is the hardest league to play in etc, and I think that probably applies here. I think some just can’t cut it in this league. Kezman, Morata, all good goal ratio, then can’t hit a barn door. I think some may become accustomed and thrive in it (Drogba as example) but others won’t ever be able to.

Hoping Timo can find a part in the latter, but it looks to be getting worse over time.

TT wants him to judging by the play time he’s getting given while Giroud and Tammy sit around scratching their arses, but with crucial games left to play (every one of them left) we can’t afford a re-run of the other night.

If we start playing him as a playmaker, at least put Giroud or Tammy on with him.

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24 minutes ago, Deino said:

Yup, his belief to score seems to have disappeared. The social media landscape is brutal towards him at the moment.

I'd like to think that were there fans in the stadiums we would be encouraging him rather than adding to his mental block. He could be one of those players where he really feeds of the energy its why I think he looked like such a good fit for Klopp and co. My only complaint with TT in this regard is that he tells him not to do extra shooting practice.

Personally I feel like he should be practicing his shooting non-stop regardless of form. With his pace he has the potential to win the golden boot once he sorts out his finishing. Yes he's missed over 20 chances but the point remains that he gets into the positions he just needs to start converting.

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43 minutes ago, LongtimerLurker said:

Werner breakaway goal or assist in coming during the second leg vs Madrid to repeat history like in 2012. Funny thing is if Werner has a good finish now til the end of the season we pretty much would be the best team in the world.

We can defend but lack a consistent goal scorer I see 2 outcomes either we fall short and Werner steps up next season, or we succeed and he kicks on next season when we try and challenge for the prem.

I expect him to come good he has too many positive aspects to be a flop. Its 100% confidence. If you compare him now to the start of the season he is a different man let alone player his conviction has gone.

 

 

100% agree. confidence is such a massive factor in so many walks of life and it’s definitely the main obstacle now to Werner succeeding. Since confidence / lack thereof tends to feed on itself, we as fans actually have it within our power to effect a positive outcome, especially when stadiums reopen. He needs our full support and we really shouldn’t give up on him until/unless the confidence theory is disproven beyond all reasonable doubt. 

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3 minutes ago, Dean said:

100% agree. confidence is such a massive factor in so many walks of life and it’s definitely the main obstacle now to Werner succeeding. Since confidence / lack thereof tends to feed on itself, we as fans actually have it within our power to effect a positive outcome, especially when stadiums reopen. He needs our full support and we really shouldn’t give up on him until/unless the confidence theory is disproven beyond all reasonable doubt.

Not to mention unlike Alvaro and Fernando, Timo's head doesn't drop he continues to run his socks off. I think its important to remember that the team effort is what has got us a 3 point buffer over 5th and Timo who less than a week ago secured this with a goal. He may miss regularly but he has contributed in key games. Ironically had it been Timo passing to Pulisic for that chance in Madrid that would have been a certain goal.

I said from the start of the year (2021) he would finish with 15 goals and 10 assists and I would be happy with that. He currently has 11 goals and 9 assists. I think he is on track to meet his debut season target as far as I'm concerned.

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30 minutes ago, Mod Stark said:

I liked him a lot, I don’t think many fans didn’t. He scored a few stunning goals. The amount of times he was called offside when he wasn’t, cause he was so sharp on the line.

But, he wasn’t a Costa and maybe cause the time in his career when he came and the personal battles he fought while in London.

As for Timo, we keep hearing how the Prem is the hardest league to play in etc, and I think that probably applies here. I think some just can’t cut it in this league. Kezman, Morata, all good goal ratio, then can’t hit a barn door. I think some may become accustomed and thrive in it (Drogba as example) but others won’t ever be able to.

Hoping Timo can find a part in the latter, but it looks to be getting worse over time.

TT wants him to judging by the play time he’s getting given while Giroud and Tammy sit around scratching their arses, but with crucial games left to play (every one of them left) we can’t afford a re-run of the other night.

If we start playing him as a playmaker, at least put Giroud or Tammy on with him.

All fair points. Costa was at another level. There with Didier, when he was having a go.

I think with Werner we just have to accept that this is him. He needs five chances to score 1. In Germany playing for a team who created lots of chances that's fine because you can still score every other game. Note that the reason Bayern didn't have interest in him is they doubted how he would go against deeper defences that they tend to face at home and especially in Europe. It's the same reason he struggles for Germany. 

We knew all this when we bought him and decided to buy him anyway. Now I think it's about making the best of it. I've wanted to see a combo with Giroud all season. I think they could work well together.

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9 minutes ago, Spiller86 said:

All fair points. Costa was at another level. There with Didier, when he was having a go.

I think with Werner we just have to accept that this is him. He needs five chances to score 1. In Germany playing for a team who created lots of chances that's fine because you can still score every other game. Note that the reason Bayern didn't have interest in him is they doubted how he would go against deeper defences that they tend to face at home and especially in Europe. It's the same reason he struggles for Germany. 

We knew all this when we bought him and decided to buy him anyway. Now I think it's about making the best of it. I've wanted to see a combo with Giroud all season. I think they could work well together.

Great post. 

I have been very2 critical on Werner but I like Werner. I think he is an important part of the squad. The problem is there is way too much nonsense on how people defend him. He works hard, this argument works if you combine with other stuff, pressing alone is nonsense. He is a very good creator, is this a joke. Somebody even said he is beter target man than Tammy. 

Tuchel has used Werner in correct way. He played him as wide forward so he can run behind constantly and not get involved heavily in the build up phase. He is very2 good at running behind , the best in our team. He isn't the best finisher, he wasn't either with leipzig. I

None of these are problems, the problem is all of this scream rotational player not nailed down starter. Play him against high line and of course when he is hot otherwise use other player.

 

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1 hour ago, Mod Stark said:

 

As for Timo, we keep hearing how the Prem is the hardest league to play in etc, and I think that probably applies here. I think some just can’t cut it in this league. Kezman, Morata, all good goal ratio, then can’t hit a barn door. I think some may become accustomed and thrive in it (Drogba as example) but others won’t ever be able to.

 

I think it is more on how most Bundesliga team play. Last year due to covid break, I watched few of Bundesliga games. I was shocked of how open the game was. Teams played high line all the time, even against Bayern. Bundesliga simply suit Timo's game more. 

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3 hours ago, Imran_CFC said:

A lot of people have been critical of Werner of late (A list which includes myself) but in the last 2 weeks I've seen our front line play against City and last night Mbappe and Neymar play against City and I have to say that Werner left everything out on the pitch whereas the same cannot be said of the PSG stars. We had some tough phases in our game against City and Werner dropped deep and kept pressing but last night the moment PSG went down to 10 men Mbappe and Neymar became disinterested and only came alive when their teammates won the ball back.

For all the criticism he receives the lad is incredible when pressing from the front and you combine that with the energy Mount brings and you can understand the reason why we are so difficult to play against.

So if psg call Tuchel and say you can take neymar/mbappe for werner, Tuchel will say no? 

 

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