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Spurs v Chelsea (LC) Tues 29th Sep 19:45 GMT


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13 minutes ago, Pob said:


In his defence I presume Chilwell isn’t ready for 90 minutes and three games in a week may be too much for Silva. But otherwise I agree - though dare I say I don’t think defence was our issue tonight, Emerson switching off aside.

Agreed. If Chilwell had played the full 90 tonight and then not been ready for the weekend, everybody would have been on Frank's back about that. I personally would have rather seen Reece come on, with Azpi moving to left. However Reece has made a fair few errors this season too, and, while Emerson made the key mistake tonight if I remember correctly he did ok when starting last week against Barnsley. I think it will take a few weeks for the new team to gel with so many changes and no pre-season. 

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25 minutes ago, dansubrosa said:

What’s your definition of dead? A top 4 finish?

lol. Apparently that wasn't good enough for some on here. I would say a top 4 finish this season, with signs of progress overall is also ok. I am sure many on here will disagree and expect more. Realistically though we are not going to win the league as a work in progress. I hate going out of the EFL cup to Spurs and it would have been a nice trophy to go for, even without a Euro spot. That being said it will be the league and Champions League where Frank is ultimately judged.

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28 minutes ago, SFL82 said:

Frank got it wrong today after we started to lose out control  in the midfield they were bypassing our press, Giroud should have come off for kante and Timo through the middle. 
 

He waited too long to affect the game and it cost us, bringing in Emerson was also a poor choice. 
 

Our back line should be 

                   Mendi 

Azpi     Zouma   Silva    Chilwell 

And just leave it alone, it changes so much it’s unreal. 
 

Mix of speed and experience and 4 of them speak french, just put them up and stop tinkering, surely he can see the unsettled line is not good. 
 

People calling for his head, he got Top 4 and a final with youth players and we are 3 games in relax, he may well not be ready yet for a job this big but let’s at least establish that before whinging 

Definitely agree with part of that. 2nd half they squeezed our midfield hard and fast, and Jorginho was eaten alive. As he always is in those circumstances.  I blame Frank.

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1 hour ago, Chelsbear said:

What looked like an exciting season has so far been a huge disappointment. Dropping points all over the place and being papped out our best chance of silverware by a second string spuds team. 

For the outlay we have spent and the time given this isn't nearly good enough. 

I don't see it changing any time soon under current management. I love Lampard but I don't think he knows how to improve or fix things. 

He used to be indecisive ....and now he's not so sure....Yes alright he 's trying to find the right combinations among the players but by the time he figures it out the season will be well over.  

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1 hour ago, Elliott said:

Signs of unrest amongst the squad, coupled with inept performances bodes well it does not. As great a job as he did last season, I’m yet to be convinced that Frank’s not out of his depth. 

Got out coached today, he reacts too late to situations.  Don't need the excuses any longer that he's new to the job, he had full season + his time with Derby. 

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As an outside observer and new fan, I really hope to see this Chelsea side play an attractive and winning soccer, with an identity. I am not convinced I'll see it anytime soon. 

I haven't seen much progress or improvement since last season. I hope Frank will have the full year to show what he can do, but will RA have the patience for it? This is a HUGE club, and winning is not expected, it is demanded at all time.

 

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1 hour ago, Spiller86 said:

Games aren't played on paper or on tactics boards. They are played in real time with fallible people making decisions and mistakes. We weren't found out at all. At worst we split a very turgid game and wasted two huge 2v1 chances to win it. Should we have played better? Yes. Did Frank make mistakes? Yes. But lets all have some calm and perspective. 

Of course. Not much point in having a target man if you don't want to use him. Or a guy who plays in behind if you won't pass it over the top (well apart from the two times Jorginho bizarrely passed over the top for Giroud to chase) Interestingly I think that is the first time we had more possessiom against Spurs in the 3 Lampard v Mourinho duels. 

Again these are lessons to be learned and there is a difference between fair criticism and calling for him to be binned. I'd hate to see what peoples reactions are when they make mistakes or things go wrong in their own lives with some of the hyperventilating going on over a football match. God save us. 

For me I think the huge amount of signings has ratcheted up expectations among the plastics to an unreasonable level. A few signings and we were going to walk the league? Those signings were needed to get us back to being competitive. As you say lets see where are at Christmas.


The issue is are lessons being learned? All I can see is the same mistakes being made over and over - especially when it comes to defensive shape, transition and chance creation. If we were improving and adapting then a few bumps in the road would be expected and accept, at least to a greater degree. If anything we’re going backwards on last season and that has to be a great concern considering the outlay. It wasn’t even a Spurs first XI tonight - no Doherty, Davies, Sanchez, Lo Celso, Sissoko, Moura, Kane, Son... who can we honestly saying was missing from our first XI - Silva, Havertz, Pulisic and Ziyech. At a pinch maybe Christensen and Kante but I cannot honestly argue they would have improved us.

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Wasn't a great game, and they had more than one chance. Our GK looked ok, dropped one high ball, made a decent, if expected, save. Distributed the ball ok.

We don't play well against a low block. Jose parked the bus in the first half and they did a great job blocking us out. Chillwell was unambitious and neither Kova nor Jorginho really wanted to take the defence on.

Mount and Werner both could have been subbed earlier. 

We had some good  chances to go 2 up and wasted them. 

I can see why Frank played Giroud but it didn't work and I don't think it will work that much this season, he isn't quite strong enough to bully defences.

I expected us to win that but we didn't do enough. 

I agree with those that say Frank hasn't yet found a system that works and I was certainly in the original group that said he didn't have enough track record to get the job. But I thought he did well last year and I'be giving him plenty of time to sort this season out. Its true that we are already 5 points behind the leaders in the Premier League. We don't want to be 10 points off the pace in another month.

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6 hours ago, Pob said:


For me this is a weak excuse. As much as I hate to say it you only have to look at Arsenal and what Arteta has done with them, even though he’s had less time with a weaker squad coming off the back of worse results. Each player knows what they need to do, they have a plan, in general he’s made them more solid at the back and they can transition through midfield. Frank’s had a year and we haven’t moved forward at all - new players, same errors. Why is every player coming into our side and basically having the same issue?
 

Roman won’t wield the axe yet but a win against Palace is a must now. Nothing else will do.

This Arteta hype is ridiculous. They don't look solid at the back, they have Leno who's an excellent shot stopper and when he was out Martinez in the form of his life. They've also been rubbish in attack under him and regularly go extended periods in games without even having a shot (including a combined over 100 minutes vs us in the league games only having one).

Edited by Argo
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5 hours ago, Slojo said:

It's a joke... And you clearly haven't read the facebook comments on our clubs page, otherwise you would see that he's actually got a point. 

Sorry, that's not a very clever response. Of course it's a joke, but so what? Why does that excuse discriminatory/racist content?

I suppose these people mentioned on their comments on the club's FB page that they were "barely literate"? 

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5 hours ago, Deino said:

We're a team that is good at passing sideways and backwards. A low block defense and long ball games kills us every time.

Come on Frank. I'm sick to death of backwards and sideways passing 

This is the crux for me at the moment. What has happened to the football we were playing at times last season?

This pass, pass, pass without us going anywhere and creating nothing is painful and dull to watch. That's going back to Sarri times when the big difference was we had Hazard, who could produce something out of nothing, beat 3 or 4 players and be the difference. Maybe when Pulicic and Ziyech come back we will see a change but there has to be an improvement as last night was poor.

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4 hours ago, ozboy said:

In this particular game I'd argue Regulion had a much bigger influence than Chilwell. But I don't make anything of it.

I would say, first half Regulion was not good at all. Mainly because of the park the bus tactics from José. 

He clearly loses a lot of his qualities if he only has to defend. 

The second half when Tottenham actually started to play some football, then he was very good in my opinion. 

He looks like a real asset for a footballing team. 

As for Chelsea, I thought that Kanté was our best player, even if he only was a sub. Every second ball was for him. Instantly made an impact.

Too bad we had a lack of creativity to force a real opening and if we did, they just didn't look too fresh. 

And I prefer to see Werner central rather than from the left.

Same with Kai when he plays, not a fan of him on the right, central mid is his position.
 

Anyhow, losing the shootouts, unlucky...

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I think we need to look at Frank. He didn't know what was his best defence formation last year and still doesn't now! The signing of Thiago will be a disaster akin to Blanc's time at Man Utd. He will look good in the CL matches but he will be ruthlessly exposed in the PL.  It begs the question did everyone think that buying Thiago will be enough to cover the weak defence we have? Also do we have a defensive coach? if we don't we need one..

Kanta is a defensive midfielder so let's play him in the front of the defence. I think Sarri ruined him by pushing him upfield but he is still one of the best so let's play him to his strengths.

I do wonder if the ready made replacement for Frank is been lined up already, he must be licking his lips at the prospect of joining us to get his revenge on Levy..

Steve

 

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8 hours ago, Pob said:


The issue is are lessons being learned? All I can see is the same mistakes being made over and over - especially when it comes to defensive shape, transition and chance creation. If we were improving and adapting then a few bumps in the road would be expected and accept, at least to a greater degree. If anything we’re going backwards on last season and that has to be a great concern considering the outlay. It wasn’t even a Spurs first XI tonight - no Doherty, Davies, Sanchez, Lo Celso, Sissoko, Moura, Kane, Son... who can we honestly saying was missing from our first XI - Silva, Havertz, Pulisic and Ziyech. At a pinch maybe Christensen and Kante but I cannot honestly argue they would have improved us.

It's not about simply learning a lesson - That is only a part of the process. The most important part is training so that you can iron out the issues. Frank, with half of a first XI of new players, does not even have close to the amount of time needed to train his players effectively. Look at what City and United look like like with far more settled squads. And people want to hop on the back of someone who exceeded expectations last season. Ridiculous. 

If you don't think a FULLY FIT Silva, Chilwell, Pulisic, Havertz, Ziyech, Christensen would have made a difference...

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2 hours ago, Nibs said:

This is the crux for me at the moment. What has happened to the football we were playing at times last season?

This pass, pass, pass without us going anywhere and creating nothing is painful and dull to watch. That's going back to Sarri times when the big difference was we had Hazard, who could produce something out of nothing, beat 3 or 4 players and be the difference. Maybe when Pulicic and Ziyech come back we will see a change but there has to be an improvement as last night was poor.

We looked much better with the ball against West Brom. I enjoyed a lot of the first half actually. This was an XI shorn of any creativity really so I suppose that was to be somewhat expected. Relying on an out-of-position CHO (with no James to work off) and Mount is never going to bring consistent results. 

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we didn’t take our chances, clear 3 or so to put the game home, we got what we’ve deserved. we were solid in the 1st, awful in the 2nd until Kante came on, then we started to play some nice fluid football finally, but we f**ked it up. and it had to be that f**kin c**t lamela, of course to rub it in.

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On the plus side, I thought we looked better defensively with Mendy and Chilwell playing. Yesterday it was more a case of just not taking our chances, as others have said. It was only when Chilwell went off for Emerson that we conceded (and I think Emerson could have done much better to stop the goal). I assume the only reason he came on is because of the falling out between Lampard and Alonso, hopefully they can make up because I'd rather have Alonso as a back up than Emerson.

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Just another typical Chelsea game, pretty sure we have seen it half a dozen times this year. Despite overplaying them for most game, never got the second goal, and looked pretty contend with the 1 goal lead, and never went for the kill. There's always at least one awful defensive error in every game. 2 central defenders both managed to miss the looping cross, and nobody to track Lamela, it was virtually impossible for him to miss, just walked the ball in. Penalty was unluck, but we should never have been in that situation, Not sure how much Jose's mind game had much effect on the way we played, we just never pushed ourselves to kill them off. We simply do not have the cleansheet in the team at moment, have to go for the second. Timo scored a good goal, so how will that impact the team on the weekend, has he proved himself enough to play as the striker? Last time the 6:0 game made Tammy the starting striker on the weekend, so never know how Lampard will pick the team. Mount is literally playing every game, will he be picked on the wing again since we got No Pullisic or Z? CHO didn't continue his good cameo from the weekend, doubt Lampard will start him. In the midfield, nobody really impressed today, so we are going with the same midfield from weekend again? I don't think it's terrible to get knocked out early in the cup. It's a missed opportunity for a trophy, but the trade off of  less injury is probably worth it. Still, should have done a lot better on the night, it's not like we played with kids.

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2 hours ago, icecoolguy22 said:

Just another typical Chelsea game, pretty sure we have seen it half a dozen times this year. Despite overplaying them for most game, never got the second goal, and looked pretty contend with the 1 goal lead, and never went for the kill. There's always at least one awful defensive error in every game. 2 central defenders both managed to miss the looping cross, and nobody to track Lamela, it was virtually impossible for him to miss, just walked the ball in. Penalty was unluck, but we should never have been in that situation, Not sure how much Jose's mind game had much effect on the way we played, we just never pushed ourselves to kill them off. We simply do not have the cleansheet in the team at moment, have to go for the second. Timo scored a good goal, so how will that impact the team on the weekend, has he proved himself enough to play as the striker? Last time the 6:0 game made Tammy the starting striker on the weekend, so never know how Lampard will pick the team. Mount is literally playing every game, will he be picked on the wing again since we got No Pullisic or Z? CHO didn't continue his good cameo from the weekend, doubt Lampard will start him. In the midfield, nobody really impressed today, so we are going with the same midfield from weekend again? I don't think it's terrible to get knocked out early in the cup. It's a missed opportunity for a trophy, but the trade off of  less injury is probably worth it. Still, should have done a lot better on the night, it's not like we played with kids.

Agreed. At one point they panned tot he touchline and to our manager and assistants. Frank lampard, Jody Morris and Joe Edwards. For me all three are decent under 18 coaches. This seems all too non contact, non competitive, text book shapes, formations and tactics. I am seriosuly in doubt if we have enough nous in our managerial group to know how to fight, grapple and basically win football matches. As it hit injury time last night i still didn't see any real urgency from us, except for Kante who was harryign and tryign to win the ball back. 

I'll be honest i stil struggle to see any defined pattern or style of play from us. I see formations but i don't really see any particular style or way of playing.

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