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Rennes v Chelsea (CL) Tue 24th Nov 2020 17:55 GMT


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Wasn't the best of performance, but did enough to win and qualify for the group. The midfield chemistry is definitely missing today, lost control of the midfield after about 30 minutes and never got it back. Not sure why Werner is playing every minute while everyone is getting a rest, he looked fatigued today, let's hope he recover in time for the big game on Sunday. The lack of creativity without Ziyech and James was obvious, happy to got through this game resting them. Credit to Rennes, really showed up and gave us a tough game, they have been hard done by last time around. on another day they'd easily draw or even win, then the super sub Giroud comes along😉

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Were we all guilty of complacency tonight ? 

Dunno if we were, but Rennes worked hard and played ok  - thank f**k they don’t finish so good - and probably deserved something from the game, but them’s the breaks.

Ought to have been out of sight if we had had our scoring boots on tonight, don’t buy the Werner being tired theory, it’s just that missing (quite a lot unfortunately) is in his game - the argument is that he puts himself in place to miss ?

I imagine statistics will tell a different story to them that want a different story to be told, but for me Kante has to play in the role sitting in front of the back four, Mount HAS TO PLAY full stop, Kovacic should start until Havertz gets used to life in the PL. Chilli just had an off night, but the Newcastle starting 11 is the team for spuds on Sunday.

 

Edited by Paddy
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First 20 or so minutes we completely out classes them, they barley got a touch on the ball.

Capped off by a lovely goal by CHO. After that they crept in to it.

After half time was mostly all them as we tried to see out a 1-0. Nearly cost us until Giroud came up with another thumping header.

Not the best performance in the end, Tammy was really poor for me and Werner was plain awful with Gronkjaer level control and Sutton esc finishing.

Giroud deserves more game time.

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16 hours ago, sonic90 said:

I don't know if winning the group matters that much any more, these days Barca, Real and PSG no longer always win their group and we can be lumped in with them all the same.

It does this year, i genuinely believe we'll make the quarters if we avoid Bayern!

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16 hours ago, EdinburghBlue said:

Yeah I get that but it keeps Sevilla level on points with us a draw/loss would have kept them 2/3 points behind us and Krasnador would still have been on 2/4 points with us on 10. Highly unlikely they were catching us anyway.

That Sevilla winner makes very little difference. Had they drew it would still have been win there to top the group and draw to keep it in our hands, as is the case now.

Edited by Argo
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33 minutes ago, Argo said:

That Sevilla winner makes very little difference. Had they drew it would still have been win there to top the group and draw to keep it in our hands, and that's how it transpired.

Not a massive difference, but it a draw means we’d only need to match their result in the final game which might have given us extra leeway. We’re in a good position to top the group either way, I just think it would have given us an even better chance had they drawn.

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13 hours ago, Paddy said:

Were we all guilty of complacency tonight ? 

Dunno if we were, but Rennes worked hard and played ok  - thank f**k they don’t finish so good - and probably deserved something from the game, but them’s the breaks.

Ought to have been out of sight if we had had our scoring boots on tonight, don’t buy the Werner being tired theory, it’s just that missing (quite a lot unfortunately) is in his game - the argument is that he puts himself in place to miss ?

I imagine statistics will tell a different story to them that want a different story to be told, but for me Kante has to play in the role sitting in front of the back four, Mount HAS TO PLAY full stop, Kovacic should start until Havertz gets used to life in the PL. Chilli just had an off night, but the Newcastle starting 11 is the team for spuds on Sunday.

 

I don't see why Kante simply has to play deeper, his press in the opposition half gave him an assist recently and that also made Ziyech create the goal chance that Giroud eventually scored yesterday. 

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58 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

Not a massive difference, but it a draw means we’d only need to match their result in the final game which might have given us extra leeway. 

That will be the case anyway. Score draw in Spain and we will hold the head to head advantage no matter what whereas another 0-0 will all but give it (the advantage in case of a points tie) to us due to our superior goal difference, if we follow up a goalless draw in Spain with a 1 goal victory Vs Krasnodar, Sevilla would have to beat Rennes by 7 clear goals to gazump us.

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16 hours ago, coco said:

we could finish 2nd in the group and have a better draw, its pot luck, just needed to qualify so we can rest more players.

If we finish first in the group we will avoid Bayern, Liverpool and Man City. I think they are secure winners of their own groups.

The other side of that coin is that we might get Atletico Madrid or Juventus and maybe even Real Madrid/Inter in case Borussia Mönchengladbach (BM) keeps their top spot. But we could still get a team like Ajax, Atalanta, Porto, Lazio which is not that bad and if BM loses their top spot we might get to play them as well.

Or we could just get Man Utd or PSG...

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1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

If we finish first in the group we will avoid Bayern, Liverpool and Man City. I think they are secure winners of their own groups.

The other side of that coin is that we might get Atletico Madrid or Juventus and maybe even Real Madrid/Inter in case Borussia Mönchengladbach (BM) keeps their top spot. But we could still get a team like Ajax, Atalanta, Porto, Lazio which is not that bad and if BM loses their top spot we might get to play them as well.

Or we could just get Man Utd or PSG...

I thought teams from the same country were kept apart in the first knock-out round.

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2 hours ago, Gol15 said:

I don't see why Kante simply has to play deeper, his press in the opposition half gave him an assist recently and that also made Ziyech create the goal chance that Giroud eventually scored yesterday. 

And who might play there if Kante didn’t ????????

You can carry on with your Jorginho argument with those that can be bothered, but all I have to say on the matter is we look like a team in control when we’ve played with Kante deep along with Mount and Kova.

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1 hour ago, Paddy said:

And who might play there if Kante didn’t ????????

You can carry on with your Jorginho argument with those that can be bothered, but all I have to say on the matter is we look like a team in control when we’ve played with Kante deep along with Mount and Kova.

Both Jorginho and Kovacic have played and can play there. Cold hard fact. Kante pressing higher up gave us results too, it would be silly to undermine that or to simply ignore it. We look in control against bottom feeder teams that's not really an achievement anyway, yesterday Rennes had their first shot on target after 39 minutes, had we taken all of our chances from the first half we would have gone to the break with having 3 goals advantage but Werner and Mount missed a clear-cut chance each from 5 yards. 

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31 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Both Jorginho and Kovacic have played and can play there. Cold hard fact. Kante pressing higher up gave us results too, it would be silly to undermine that or to simply ignore it. We look in control against bottom feeder teams that's not really an achievement anyway, yesterday Rennes had their first shot on target after 39 minutes, had we taken all of our chances from the first half we would have gone to the break with having 3 goals advantage but Werner and Mount missed a clear-cut chance each from 5 yards. 

Saying “......Jorginho and Kovacic have played there - cold hard fact’ is the same as saying  ‘Kepa is a goalkeeper- cold hard fact’  -  both statements maybe “cold hard facts” but it doesn’t mean that any of them were any f**king good !!!!

As I have said many times on this board, football is subjective, your opinion may align with mine, it might not  - in this case we differ and no amount of persuasion from you will change my opinion about if and where Jorginho should play - only he will be able to do that, so until he does it’s Kante , Mount, Kova is the line up for me and let’s see what young Billy G brings in due course?

I think our approach to how we appreciate football and players differs fundamentally. I grew up in a world where there wasn’t central heating, no hot water on tap, washing was done at the laundrette, our “car” was a double decker bus, we had blankets and coats for our bedding and ‘press’ was what ya mum did when she ironed ya shirts - we also used to watch football from the high distant terraces of the old North Stand - there wasn’t a % point in sight, no “missed tackle” count, no “pass completion” ratio, not a “headers won” “headers lost” comparison blah blah blah - but we knew who played well and who’d been on the piss the night before - we watched with our eyes and they told us what we knew ?

I believe your a stats man and I guess they have their place, but there was a British PM in the 1820’s named George Canning who said he could prove anything with statistics but the truth and the famous American author Mark Twain who used the phrase , “ there are 3 kinds of lies; lies, damned lies and statistics “ it’s a phrase used to describe the persuasive power of numbers, particularly the use of statistics to bolster weak arguments - cold hard fact?

A rhetorical question - Why would you say Mount missed a clear cut chance rather than say Mount got himself into a wonderful position and that their keeper pulled off a fabulous, maybe even a world class, save ? 

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5 minutes ago, Paddy said:

Saying “......Jorginho and Kovacic have played there - cold hard fact’ is the same as saying  ‘Kepa is a goalkeeper- cold hard fact’  -  both statements maybe “cold hard facts” but it doesn’t mean that any of them were any f**king good !!!!

As I have said many times on this board, football is subjective, your opinion may align with mine, it might not  - in this case we differ and no amount of persuasion from you will change my opinion about if and where Jorginho should play - only he will be able to do that, so until he does it’s Kante , Mount, Kova is the line up for me and let’s see what young Billy G brings in due course?

I think our approach to how we appreciate football and players differs fundamentally. I grew up in a world where there wasn’t central heating, no hot water on tap, washing was done at the laundrette, our “car” was a double decker bus, we had blankets and coats for our bedding and ‘press’ was what ya mum did when she ironed ya shirts - we also used to watch football from the high distant terraces of the old North Stand - there wasn’t a % point in sight, no “missed tackle” count, no “pass completion” ratio, not a “headers won” “headers lost” comparison blah blah blah - but we knew who played well and who’d been on the piss the night before - we watched with our eyes and they told us what we knew ?

I believe your a stats man and I guess they have their place, but there was a British PM in the 1820’s named George Canning who said he could prove anything with statistics but the truth and the famous American author Mark Twain who used the phrase , “ there are 3 kinds of lies; lies, damned lies and statistics “ it’s a phrase used to describe the persuasive power of numbers, particularly the use of statistics to bolster weak arguments - cold hard fact?

A rhetorical question - Why would you say Mount missed a clear cut chance rather than say Mount got himself into a wonderful position and that their keeper pulled off a fabulous, maybe even a world class, save ? 

Jorginho yesterday had a very similar defensive game like Kante did against Newcastle that is a worse team in comparison to Rennes, Kante has made us score yesterday just because he played more forward and that also rewarded him an assist against Sheffield which is his first of the season... Even if you want to be blindly convinced that Kante does better deeper, him being more forward has benefited the whole team as well, you probably didn't notice but Jorginho did press and delayed the attacks of Rennes forcing them to recycle the ball more for the whole game and if not for that corner we would have kept a clean sheet.

Mount did get himself in a great position but it should have been a goal, that was the best moment for Chilwell in the whole match he should have had an assist there, for the rest of the game Chilwell did poorly, in fact Werner and Chilwell were much worse than anyone else in our team yesterday, not only did Werner missed a clear-cut chance, he received a few balls poorly and in one occasion when he should have received the ball he let it through only to take a ball that he should have let go later on and then he missed one more clear-cut chance. Two can be true, it was a great save but you would expect from a top player like Mount to bury that chance instinctively.

I won't even bother with this comparison that you made, you seriously just put Kovacic and Jorginho equal to Kepa? You must be high or something, both Kovacic and Jorginho were instrumental in our past season, Kepa was never doing his job properly, this is a bad take my friend...

Somehow you think that it's viable to limit Kante to that one position when in fact Lampard has been using him in a very smart way, that's why he's the boss and you're not. Kante pressuring more higher up the pitch while Jorginho/Kovacic cover a deeper area is a good tactic.

Here is a rhetorical question for you, did Lampard make a mistake for playing Kante as a box-to-box midfielder yesterday even if that move made us won the ball which in turn led us to victory?

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2 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Jorginho yesterday had a very similar defensive game like Kante did against Newcastle that is a worse team in comparison to Rennes, Kante has made us score yesterday just because he played more forward and that also rewarded him an assist against Sheffield which is his first of the season... Even if you want to be blindly convinced that Kante does better deeper, him being more forward has benefited the whole team as well, you probably didn't notice but Jorginho did press and delayed the attacks of Rennes forcing them to recycle the ball more for the whole game and if not for that corner we would have kept a clean sheet.

Mount did get himself in a great position but it should have been a goal, that was the best moment for Chilwell in the whole match he should have had an assist there, for the rest of the game Chilwell did poorly, in fact Werner and Chilwell were much worse than anyone else in our team yesterday, not only did Werner missed a clear-cut chance, he received a few balls poorly and in one occasion when he should have received the ball he let it through only to take a ball that he should have let go later on and then he missed one more clear-cut chance. Two can be true, it was a great save but you would expect from a top player like Mount to bury that chance instinctively.

I won't even bother with this comparison that you made, you seriously just put Kovacic and Jorginho equal to Kepa? You must be high or something, both Kovacic and Jorginho were instrumental in our past season, Kepa was never doing his job properly, this is a bad take my friend...

Somehow you think that it's viable to limit Kante to that one position when in fact Lampard has been using him in a very smart way, that's why he's the boss and you're not. Kante pressuring more higher up the pitch while Jorginho/Kovacic cover a deeper area is a good tactic.

Here is a rhetorical question for you, did Lampard make a mistake for playing Kante as a box-to-box midfielder yesterday even if that move made us won the ball which in turn led us to victory?

Blimey, you don’t ‘alf go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on ....................đŸ’€Â 

I’m sorry, but frankly I find your intransigent and insistent, nth degree, total dissection, over analytical guess work of your take on football boring and it’s not for me - I don’t believe football discussion needs to be that difficult or deep?

And for someone who writes a lot, your not very good at reading and comprehension are you ? Which bit of “............no amount of persuasion from YOU will change my opinion.......”  didn’t you understand ?? and yet you continue to try ?

I bet you are one of these types that could have a row in an empty room and you are definitely a ‘the last word’ merchant, so go on, knock yourself out, or knock one out if you prefer, the last word is yours, I’m done. 

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13 hours ago, Paddy said:

Blimey, you don’t ‘alf go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on ....................đŸ’€Â 

I’m sorry, but frankly I find your intransigent and insistent, nth degree, total dissection, over analytical guess work of your take on football boring and it’s not for me - I don’t believe football discussion needs to be that difficult or deep?

And for someone who writes a lot, your not very good at reading and comprehension are you ? Which bit of “............no amount of persuasion from YOU will change my opinion.......”  didn’t you understand ?? and yet you continue to try ?

I bet you are one of these types that could have a row in an empty room and you are definitely a ‘the last word’ merchant, so go on, knock yourself out, or knock one out if you prefer, the last word is yours, I’m done. 

I have changed my mind many times over the course of last season, you not willing to answer my question and labeling me in such a silly way - talks more about you than what it does about me, have a nice.

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