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Official Thomas Tuchel


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4 minutes ago, ducavis said:

Backup or an upgrade/move in a different direction? Personally not a fan of deep lying playmaker. I’d rather we got rid & spend the money on a Rice/Bissouma type player.

Personally I'd get a standard DM like Rice or @Gol15 mentioned Ndidi. That gives us more tactical flexibility allowing us to play either Jorginho or the DM depending on tactics and opponent. Jorginho has been valuable in many games, when he is not pressed can be very useful. But last night it was obvious that Jorginho was going to be ineffective and counterproductive keeping him on the pitch. Having a DM would have allowed us to play that DM with Gilmour, and maybe even switch to a back 4.

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Posted (edited)

You don't take Jorginho off for a poor 45 mins and leave Gilmour on. He's been good under Tuchel and he's important to the way we play. If you take him off you risk his confidence taking a turn and he's likely going to be important for us in the CL final and the run in.

Gilmour is young and has time on his side. He's not starting the CL final, he's playing now because of the fixture congestion and the risk of not injuring Kante. Its not hard to understand the manager picking someone with experience to get them back in the game.

I was fully expecting Gilmour to get subbed. The problem was for me that we should of brought a natural number 9 on earlier.

 

Edited by Sheva
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43 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

CHO and Giroud was never going to make much of an impact with the lack of gametime recently.

Especially as Giroud was isolated. As much as Havertz blew his chance we needed Giroud on with Havertz dropping behind him.

May have changed nothing but for me the right sub was a triple sub and a change to a back 4 with Arsenal so deep:

 

Kepa

 

Azpi

Silva

Zouma

Chilwell

 

James

Mount

 

Ziyech

Havertz

Werner

 

Giroud

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I’m glad he admitted his faults. As some have pointed out, the squad sheet for the game instantly shows that Tuchel expected this to be an easy game at that may have translated to the players. I hope he has learnt his lesson.

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7 hours ago, axman2526 said:

TT has confirmed Kepa starts the final.

Ah f it, got an Irish mate coming round at 8.45 am with some tins, so ill be tuning in for the comedic value 

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1 hour ago, enigma said:

Didn't know where to put this, but was interesting nonetheless. Explaining our issues with our attack. Click on it and scroll through thread. 

 

Just shows we have an unbalanced squad. Can't use Ziyech properly while having 2 players in the midfield + Mount. I said it a few times this season that for me Ziyech is our best passer but I'm pretty sure he can't really adapt to this system, it was clear that he was bought to play in a 4-3-3 just like he did for Ajax.

I still think that our finishing has been terrible, specially after watching Werner the whole season. This can cost us everything, specially in the tight games where we must take our chances.

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I do data analytics for a living, so should really be into this stuff, but ... did they maybe overthink this a bit? If we are doing well on xG - we are creating chances. If we are doing less well on converting those xG into G - we are a bit sh*t at finishing. That's about it.

Or one can just watch games, observe the chances missed, calm down a bit, remind themselves that other teams also miss chances - and then compare us missing chances against other teams missing chances. And conclude what they will - probably that we miss a few too many chances. 🙂

That our xA / Chances stat is low - means very little. Just means that our Chances stat is bloated for whatever reason.

If I wanted to prove with data that buying one good finisher will not fix things in itself - I'd look at how much the chances / shots / xG is spread across the team. Does replacing one of these people with a better finisher who will convert a few more of their own chances make such a big difference? I would guess - no. And if we change tactics to be more focused on creating chances for this one good finisher - well that's just a whole other team, playing a whole other game. Might be a good idea, might not be.
 

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1 hour ago, _Ilya_ said:

I do data analytics for a living, so should really be into this stuff, but ... did they maybe overthink this a bit? If we are doing well on xG - we are creating chances. If we are doing less well on converting those xG into G - we are a bit sh*t at finishing. That's about it.

Or one can just watch games, observe the chances missed, calm down a bit, remind themselves that other teams also miss chances - and then compare us missing chances against other teams missing chances. And conclude what they will - probably that we miss a few too many chances. 🙂

That our xA / Chances stat is low - means very little. Just means that our Chances stat is bloated for whatever reason.

If I wanted to prove with data that buying one good finisher will not fix things in itself - I'd look at how much the chances / shots / xG is spread across the team. Does replacing one of these people with a better finisher who will convert a few more of their own chances make such a big difference? I would guess - no. And if we change tactics to be more focused on creating chances for this one good finisher - well that's just a whole other team, playing a whole other game. Might be a good idea, might not be.
 

Respect - that is quite possibly the most ambivalent post I have ever read.

Out of interest what area of data analytics do you work in?

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2 hours ago, _Ilya_ said:

How so?

My apologies - my reply wasn't intended as a dig. My read on your post was that it was quite fatalistic, which I enjoyed.

Out of interest what area of data analytics do you work in?

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37 minutes ago, PloKoon13 said:

Out of interest what area of data analytics do you work in?

"Product analytics" at a tech company.

 

38 minutes ago, PloKoon13 said:

My read on your post was that it was quite fatalistic, which I enjoyed.

🙂 Interesting. I suppose the point I was making is fatalistic in way, inasmuch as fatalism can coincide with optimism. 🙂 

I was trying to say that , imho, we are creating a lot of chances, possibly not converting quite as many as we should and possibly won't fix the under-conversion with just one striker. But I genuinely don't believe it's a bad place to be in. We'll score more goals next year even if we don't buy anybody - this attack will improve. 

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16 minutes ago, _Ilya_ said:

"Product analytics" at a tech company.

 

🙂 Interesting. I suppose the point I was making is fatalistic in way, inasmuch as fatalism can coincide with optimism. 🙂 

I was trying to say that , imho, we are creating a lot of chances, possibly not converting quite as many as we should and possibly won't fix the under-conversion with just one striker. But I genuinely don't believe it's a bad place to be in. We'll score more goals next year even if we don't buy anybody - this attack will improve. 

Sorry to ask as it sounds dreadful - what does 'product analytics' mean?

I do agree about our attack (Werner in particular) - if he keeps putting himself in the positions he does then the laws of large numbers seem to indicate that he should score a great deal more than he does currently. (Admittedly this doesn't take into account any of the psychlogical intangibles like confidence). If Werner can start scoring consistently (even at a level which underperforms his xG) then, in addition to everything else he provides (stretching defences, smart positioning and effort when out of possession) he would be an incredibly good player.

Regarding your point about chance volume - I read an article (or possibly a Twitter thread) about Brighton's xG to end product disparity which suggested that being a successful attacking side wasn't just about creating a large volume of goalscoring chances, it was about creating chances that your team's goalscorers are good at finishing. Any thoughts about how that might be relevant to Chelsea under Tuchel?

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1 hour ago, PloKoon13 said:

Sorry to ask as it sounds dreadful - what does 'product analytics' mean?

I don’t know at what level of familiarity with tech industry to pitch, so apologies if this sounds obvious/patronising - not my intent. A company makes an app - e.g. a forum for Chelsea fans 🙂 - and an analytics person looks at the usage data to advise how to make it better. Can involve things like experimentation, forecasting, problem diagnostics…

 

1 hour ago, PloKoon13 said:

suggested that being a successful attacking side wasn't just about creating a large volume of goalscoring chances, it was about creating chances that your team's goalscorers are good at finishing

Fascinating!  I never considered this. Feel kinda stupid now. 🙂 Makes sense, things like xG are calculated based on some sort of average conversion rate of a given opportunity, but, of course, individual players can digress from average. And it’s possible for a team to systematically create “good, but not good for their attackers” chances. Say, put a lot of good crosses on a head of a guy who is bad a heading.

I don’t know if this is true of our attackers. If I had to hypothesise - I have felt that we don’t have a lot of powerful shooters on the team, right now. Don’t remember the last time I saw a Lamps-style screamer. Could we be creating chances that require a bit more power?

Likely bollocks… 🙂

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What alternative world have I stepped into.

God I feel old.

Not knocking all the stats and g’s xg’s and whatever and they are increasingly becoming more important in the game. I also understand that people just love following stats and analysing every detail.

For me it just comes down to ‘they did good’, ‘they was sh*t’.

As far as TT goes, he’s done good up to now and if we get just 1 of the 3 goals that we are aiming forward it’s been a positive season. Achieve none,  I think he’s still done good work and look forward to next season.

 

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Tuchel did turn the season around and we have been getting good results but I must say that at this point it will be disappointing if we miss out on CL football next season.

We have 2 ways to do it, with 2 games or win the CL final so if we fail at both it would be falling short and basically underperforming, specially considering that we have already beaten Man City twice already and on top of that we will first play Leicester in the FA Cup final and then in the PL so it's pretty hard for me to think that it would still be a good season if we lose the CL final and also one of the two remaining PL games.

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11 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Tuchel did turn the season around and we have been getting good results but I must say that at this point it will be disappointing if we miss out on CL football next season.

We have 2 ways to do it, with 2 games or win the CL final so if we fail at both it would be falling short and basically underperforming, specially considering that we have already beaten Man City twice already and on top of that we will first play Leicester in the FA Cup final and then in the PL so it's pretty hard for me to think that it would still be a good season if we lose the CL final and also one of the two remaining PL games.

Of the same mind to you on this Gol

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For me the only disappointment would be to miss top 4. That’s why Tuchel was brought in, the board thought that Frank would not be able to pick up form again and we’d miss on next season’s CL. Tuchel has done a great job at steadying the team and very good job building on Frank’s FA Cup and CL runs. Two finals of the most prestigious cups this season, who would have said? But, if we miss on next season's CL after being on our hands, it’s going to be disappointing.

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If you play tedious, defensive, risk free, boring football with a team filled with defenders then this is what happens. Emperors new clothes of a manager and I fully expect to lose the CL final and miss out on top 4 due to sh*t team selection as Tuchel f**ks about to show how amazing he is...

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Refereeing a side which is a joke as their goal should at the very least have been disallowed, I’ll need to see the offside again. The team selection was poor. I don’t have a major issue with Kepa and the goal but you start your best players in finals and that’s Mendy. Werner surviving 82 minutes on that performance is beyond a joke. He took far too long to change things and the treatment of Tammy is a joke. Doesn’t even make the bench when he’s your top scorer in the competition. It’s shocking and the blame for today lies firmly with the manager.

 

If we bottle the CL final and drop out of top four the pressure will seriously be on him. We’re gonna turn into Spurs, a bunch of f**king bottlers.

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Knew the kneejerkers would be out in force.

Sucks to lose the final. Great achievement just getting there beating the best team in England. Even better achievement getting to the CL-final regardless of the result there.

And even if we do fail to finishing in Top 4 we can thank Lampard for that. Second best team in the league since he arrived, you couldn't possible ask for more.

 

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