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Official Thomas Tuchel


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30 minutes ago, JM7 said:

Unfortunately we’re not an elite club anymore who wins the big trophies. Scraping top 4 just about keeps us there or there about. Dropping into the Europa league only reduces  our status further. 

Couldn’t disagree more. We are going in the right direction and will be challenging for the title next season (I happen to think we will win it). Last couple of games are indeed disappointing but could prove down the line to have been a healthy setback that made us stronger. Bit like West Brom, which also threw so many into a panic.

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5 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

What are you talking about? It’s all basic things that are key points to Werners game and the way he would adapt to our team and our league. Are you seriously implying that the recruitment team should just look at a stats sheet and sign players based on that? 
 

That’s exactly the point, he misses more than he scores because he’s a volume shooter, I don’t rate him as a finisher but it was clear that was the case before we signed him.

 

How is it a myth when players comment on it consistently when they move to the PL? Both Kai and Timo have mentioned in interviews you don’t get the time or space and the physicality is much more. I’ll trust the guys actually playing in the league over you.

What I'm saying is Werner has been consistent on getting goals. He knows how to get into dangerous positions. He's been getting into goalscoring positions a lot.

It is a myth considering Liverpool, City, United face the same defences and still manage to score plenty of goals. Salah and Sterling are similar to Werner yet both managed outstanding seasons in the PL. 

It's Kai and Timo's debut season, of course they'll say that to get reporters off their backs. Timo and Havertz both managed to get into great goalscoring positions. How is it on recruitment when they can't score 1v1s against keepers?

 

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17 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

It’s completely irrelevant anyway as we were in a comfortable position to make top 4 last week so what happened 6 months ago isn’t really relevant.

 

Yes, to Tuchels credit am I right? Big wins Anfield, Etihad, West Ham away, Tottenham away to mention a few is what got is back into Top 4 in the first place.

And that's with a team that was spanked by just about every decent team this season before Tuchel came in.

And yes, he does pick the team. And it's served him and us extremely well up until Arsenal. Four sh*t days shouldn't make us forget the achievements up until now.

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13 minutes ago, venom2011 said:

That's fine, no one is saying he isn't getting chances.  He is still not a great fit for this team and most of those chances are the bread and butter for more traditional strikers. 

Off topic - In that case they would have need to use that 5 second rule a lot more and the team would have been much less effective. If Zlatan wasn't suitable, you can be damn sure Kante wouldn't have been. 

How is he not a great fit when the one who plays him in those positions are the managers? Frank and Tuchel could both not play him but Timo has been contributing to a lot of attacks. 

Off topic: Zlatan messes with the forward dynamic of Messi and Pedro plus the whole ego thing about him. Kante improves the midfield dynamic. 

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1 minute ago, Deino said:

What I'm saying is Werner has been consistent on getting goals. He knows how to get into dangerous positions. He's been getting into goalscoring positions a lot.

It is a myth considering Liverpool, City, United face the same defences and still manage to score plenty of goals. Salah and Sterling are similar to Werner yet both managed outstanding seasons in the PL. 

It's Kai and Timo's debut season, of course they'll say that to get reporters off their backs. Timo and Havertz both managed to get into great goalscoring positions. How is it on recruitment when they can't score 1v1s against keepers?

 

Consistent in getting goals? Do you mean goalscoring chances? Because last seasons goal output for Timo was an anomaly.

Salah and Sterling have much more to their game than Werner, they can dribble and they also play on the wing where you’re looking on to things with more room to run. Werner as a 9 makes him the focal point.


They’re not the only players to have come from abroad who say that though, there’s been many. I’m absolutely not arguing that it’s not good enough (particularly Werners finishing - I genuinely believe some of it has been on par with Morata and Torres) but I just don’t think he suits our slow, methodical build up or the league. Maybe I’ll be proven wrong but if this is how we plan to play, the recruitment team need to buy a big striker who can hold the ball up and be a physical presence to fit the style of play. 
 

I assume Timo was bought with fast attacking football in mind with Frank in charge but this is the problem with changing manager so frequently, there’s no continuity and players don’t always fit the next managers plans. Maybe next season TT will put us to a 4 at the back and it will suit him better, we’ll have to wait & see. 100% I don’t dispute his finishing when he gets his chances, has to be much, much better.

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25 minutes ago, JPH said:

FA Cup, who cares. But the performance we put against Arsenal was unforgivable from Tuchel. Even winning the CL doesn't compensate that. And if we miss top 4....

 

What? Win the CL and it not only compensates the previous defeats but it tops every other achievement since 2012.

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5 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Yes, to Tuchels credit am I right? Big wins Anfield, Etihad, West Ham away, Tottenham away to mention a few is what got is back into Top 4 in the first place.

And that's with a team that was spanked by just about every decent team this season before Tuchel came in.

And yes, he does pick the team. And it's served him and us extremely well up until Arsenal. Four sh*t days shouldn't make us forget the achievements up until now.

Yes you are right, but that doesn’t disprove my point, I never said it wasn’t to TT credit - you’re the one trying to shift the blame from him if everything collapses. Make up your mind. If it’s to his credit we’re in this position then it’s his fault if we bottle it. You can’t have one without the other.

 

What does that achievement amount to if this next week continues to go badly? It means absolutely nothing, as I said before. It doesn’t matter if you are the loser in the CL final or you get knocked out in the round of 16 from a purely sporting point of view. You’re still losers, better losers but losers nonetheless. Football is about winning at the end of the day and all the work to get us in to the top 4 and in two finals means zero if we fail to achieve any of the three.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

Consistent in getting goals? Do you mean goalscoring chances? Because last seasons goal output for Timo was an anomaly.

Salah and Sterling have much more to their game than Werner, they can dribble and they also play on the wing where you’re looking on to things with more room to run. Werner as a 9 makes him the focal point.


They’re not the only players to have come from abroad who say that though, there’s been many. I’m absolutely not arguing that it’s not good enough (particularly Werners finishing - I genuinely believe some of it has been on par with Morata and Torres) but I just don’t think he suits our slow, methodical build up or the league. Maybe I’ll be proven wrong but if this is how we plan to play, the recruitment team need to buy a big striker who can hold the ball up and be a physical presence to fit the style of play. 
 

I assume Timo was bought with fast attacking football in mind with Frank in charge but this is the problem with changing manager so frequently, there’s no continuity and players don’t always fit the next managers plans. Maybe next season TT will put us to a 4 at the back and it will suit him better, we’ll have to wait & see. 100% I don’t dispute his finishing when he gets his chances, has to be much, much better.

At Leipzig, beginning with 2016/17, he's managed 21 goals, 21 goals, 19 goals and 34 goals. Anomaly or not, he has been consistently scoring in Germany. That shows at least he knows where to target danger zones and get into goalscoring positions. It's obvious if you've been watching our games that he knows where to be to shoot. This season is the actual outlier in his career, where he gets loads of chances and can't finish

If Timo was so bad at No. 9, then blame Tuchel and Frank for playing him there. 

Again, if he doesn't suit us, then why is Tammy and Giroud both big No. 9's don't suit us either?

So at the end of the day, recruitment is to be blamed when good players are the ones not performing and there was a manager change midseason? Because now not only is recruitment in charge of scouting and buying players, they also need to take into account of said players not performing, losing confidence and predict how the players will suit manager changes midseason? 

That's an amazing set of responsibilities to put on 1 department.

Edited by Deino
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13 minutes ago, Deino said:

At Leipzig, beginning with 2016/17, he's managed 21 goals, 21 goals, 19 goals and 34 goals. Anomaly or not, he has been consistently scoring in Germany. That shows at least he knows where to target danger zones and get into goalscoring positions. It's obvious if you've been watching our games that he knows where to be to shoot. This season is the actual outlier in his career, where he gets loads of chances and can't finish

If Timo was so bad at No. 9, then blame Tuchel and Frank for playing him there. 

Again, if he doesn't suit us, then why is Tammy and Giroud both big No. 9's don't suit us either?

So at the end of the day, recruitment is to be blamed when good players are the ones not performing and there was a manager change midseason? Because now not only is recruitment in charge of scouting and buying players, they also need to take into account of said players not performing, losing confidence and predict how the players will suit manager changes midseason? 

That's an amazing set of responsibilities to put on 1 department.

You’re looking at those stats but not looking at it deeper or having watched him. He is a volume shooter as I already said, this has been discussed at length in this thread and by people who discussed his transfer. The Leipzig fans were saying similar and their quotes were put in here, if you go back you’ll see them. 
 

I never said either of them don’t suit us? Tammy is one goal off being our top scorer and hasn’t started a game since December so he clearly was scoring up until that point - as to why he’s been frozen out only TT could tell you. Giroud I think is purely down to age & lack of mobility.

 

I’m really not sure how you’re failing to comprehend this. Our recruitment should focus on buying players who for the system we want to play and the style of football. The managerial appointments should do the same. You see the way City operate? They play almost vertical tika-taka football to put a label on it. They sign players who suit that system, players who can operate in the roles that they have. If Pep leaves, they will no doubt bring in a manager who wants to play a similar type of football. It’s about continuity and having a structure. They’re not going to go out and hire Simeone to replace Pep as that is a completely different brand of football. I really don’t know how to break this down further for you. The club should have a strategic plan of how they want the club to be run on and off the park, the recruitment team should be aware of that and identify targets that fit the model. That’s as simply as I can explain it to you.

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2 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

Tammy is one goal off being our top scorer and hasn’t started a game since December

This isn't accurate.

He started two games in a row in February v Burnley and Southampton. Unfortunately he was absymal in both of them and was hooked at half time in both.

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48 minutes ago, jack h said:

Totally the wrong attitude and probably sums up why we lost today. This was a cup final, tuesday isn't. Also, the only reason Tuesday is a big game is because we didn't take the arsenal game seriously.

I remember how we all used to laugh at Wenger for saying top 4 was more important and should be treated like winning a trophy, well they sound as ridiculous as he did back then. 

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To play Dave at wb is an awful decision, its basically setting up defensively.You need wing backs to give you something offensively and Dave gives you nothing. You always pick your best team so not sure why Kepa was picked for 2 games and i think even though Ziyech has scored a few goals his actual performances have been poor. 

Not keeping Giroud or Abraham even more so match fit could come back to bite TT. Even if you dont rate them you could at least keep one constantly involved for situations like today.

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13 minutes ago, Sindre said:

This isn't accurate.

He started two games in a row in February v Burnley and Southampton. Unfortunately he was absymal in both of them and was hooked at half time in both.

Good spot, doesn’t change the simple fact he’s played a minuscule amount of minutes in comparison to our other forwards and is still almost our top scorer, does it?

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15 minutes ago, Sindre said:

This isn't accurate.

He started two games in a row in February v Burnley and Southampton. Unfortunately he was absymal in both of them and was hooked at half time in both.

He started Burnley, got taken off at half time, dropped on the bench for 2 games then did the same vs Southampton. Treated pretty sh*t tbh.

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1 hour ago, Deino said:

Since he signed for Leipzig

2016/17: 21 goals

2017/18: 21 goals

2018/19: 19 goals

2019/20: 34 goals.

Timo is 25. Since he was 21 years old, he has had a good record. 

I'm okay with people blaming Werner but to blame recruitment when all they do is try to sign the better talents out there just reeks of agenda.

Why didn't you blame recruitment for signing Thiago Silva? 

Looks like you can't read. Read back my other post which you did not quote and chose to ignore. 

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15 minutes ago, Sindre said:

This isn't accurate.

He started two games in a row in February v Burnley and Southampton. Unfortunately he was absymal in both of them and was hooked at half time in both.

So under Tuchel, Tammy had played in total just 2 games and he didn't even finish a single one of them? That's definitely not enough minutes, Werner goes and plays over 3500 minutes and he's missing chances and wasting attacks every game, I'm pretty sure Werner also played against Burnely and Southampton and it doesn't matter but Tammy has 1 poor half and he gets out, has another one and he'll never feature again? 

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1 minute ago, EdinburghBlue said:

Good spot, doesn’t change the simple fact he’s played a minuscule amount of minutes in comparison to our other forwards and is still almost our top scorer, does it?

I can understand why some think it's strange.

I don't rate Abraham as highly as some do though. Think he's very limited and offers almost nothing when he isn't scoring.

So therefore he doesn't fit Tuchel's system all that well with all the interchanging, fluid style of attacking football.

 

 

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1 hour ago, JM7 said:

Maybe it’s not 2012 , it’s 2008 

- Changed manager mid season 

- Lost a domestic cup final

- played a Manchester team in the CL final and....lost??

Aye indeed looks like it to me. Minus the missing out on top 4 part.

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Still has everything to play for, but the next two weeks are probably the biggest in Tuchel's career to date.

Because we all know it doesn't matter one iota what has gone before, Roman has an extremely low patience threshold and an even lower threshold for failure. Tommy has done great so far to get us where we are but, come up empty handed when it matters most, and none of us would be surprised if Abramovich pulled the trigger. Tommy still has work to do to guarantee himself an allocated parking space in the Stamford Bridge car park next season.

I hope he does it. I like him.

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14 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

 

I remember how we all used to laugh at Wenger for saying top 4 was more important and should be treated like winning a trophy, well they sound as ridiculous as he did back then. 

Yes, true, and now Arsenal are winning FA Cups every other season and are still worse team than with Wenger. I would have loved to win today, but let’s not pretend that the FA Cup is what it used to be because the price of winning it is the Europa League while top 4 is playing and having the chance of getting to the CL final. We lost it last year against Arsenal, we got top 4 and we are playing the CL final this season. Anyone remembers what Le Arse have done this season? Blame the FA, UEFA or whoever decided to depreciate the Cup.

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12 minutes ago, Sindre said:

I can understand why some think it's strange.

I don't rate Abraham as highly as some do though. Think he's very limited and offers almost nothing when he isn't scoring.

So therefore he doesn't fit Tuchel's system all that well with all the interchanging, fluid style of attacking football.

 

 

Genuine question, what fluid interchanging attacking football have you been watching? We have been awful to watch for the most part under TT minus a few exceptions ala Madrid & City but mostly it is very boring and we just pass the ball about in front of the opposition. It’s not about Abraham being as good as Haaland - it’s about having someone in the team who can score goals and he’s the best player in the club at the moment at doing it.

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Not a popular opinion  but if we drop the top 4 and lose the CL final then I think TT should go.

We moved on Frank as being nearly men and far away is not enough.

So to get us in to the position of top 4 being in our hands and being in 2 cup finals, and to then follow that with losing two cup finals and dropping the top 4 on the back on his PSG losing the last CL final makes him seem like a manager who chokes at the last stage and for me that would be dismal.

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Just now, axman2526 said:

Aye indeed looks like it to me. Minus the missing out on top 4 part.

We have been tricked thinking it's 2012-2021 but it's actually 2008-2021

The Hunchback Of Notre Dame Jail GIF

 

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