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1 minute ago, bisright1 said:

Sorry I slipped into hyperbole with my 100%

I'm 99% sure Cech was a part of that decision. If he wasn't, then I don't really know what the point of his job is.

Jobs for the boys? His job description that has been released suggests he doesn't have the power you seem to think he wields. Unlike Michael Emenalo. As I said, on the balance of probability he will have been told of the decision to sack Frank but I'd be very unsure that he had any real input in the process. If he had, it would have been Cech that delivered the dismissal notice rather than Marina as has been reported. Again I say it really is speculation on my behalf.

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8 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

Sorry I slipped into hyperbole with my 100%

I'm 99% sure Cech was a part of that decision. If he wasn't, then I don't really know what the point of his job is.

He may have had input, but to say he was part of the 'decision' is just nonsense, one man makes the decisions.

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1 minute ago, coco said:

He may have had input, but to say he was part of the 'decision' is just nonsense, one man makes the decisions.

Semantics of what is "key to a decision".

Marina and Roman would have spoke to Cech. 

What is happening. Why are we losing. 

Cech would have given an answer. Looking at how fast the decision was made, how Lampard wasn't given until the end of the season, I expect that Cechs answer wasn't "keep him it's just bad form, he's the future of the club".

Lampard was then sacked by Roman. 

Thats what happened. I think Cech has the clout to persuade Roman to hold fire. I don't think he used it. I'm certain of it. 

The idea that he wasn't consulted is laughable. 

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8 minutes ago, coco said:

Where did i say that ? 

When you were in top-level meetings with Roman, Cech and the board and you all decided that Cech was the man most in the know and had most influence, because you are deeply embedded in the higher echelons of the club, 100%.

 

I guess.

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1 minute ago, coco said:

Don't quote me then.

Seriously? You quoted my response to someone where the whole topic was about how involved Cech was in the decision. 

You walked into a conversation half way through and then assumed you were the centre of the discussion. 

Not everything is about you. 

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3 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

When you were in top-level meetings with Roman, Cech and the board and you all decided that Cech was the man most in the know and had most influence, because you are deeply embedded in the higher echelons of the club, 100%.

I guess.

Naturally the Shed End hierarchy is consulted on all the big calls. I still blame Mod and Coco for recommending we buy Kepa.

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2 hours ago, ozboy said:

Such a funny set of views. I wasn’t big on Tuchel when first announced, didn’t think he’d done as well as he might at PSG, but i a, happy he;s got the job. I  see a lot more than just a new manager bounce although there surely is one of those. 
 

chelsea discard players at a moments notice. Ramires is the one that first comes to mind. A fantastic player on his day, woykdnt have won the cl without him and gone within a year (from memory). 

Lampard as a player aswell.

He was released and replaced with an Arsenal legend and if the Cesc thread was anything to go by no one cared!

Are the rules different for players or was it because it was Jose that was (likely) the main guy behind that decision and not the board?

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1 hour ago, bisright1 said:

Semantics of what is "key to a decision".

Marina and Roman would have spoke to Cech. 

What is happening. Why are we losing. 

Cech would have given an answer. Looking at how fast the decision was made, how Lampard wasn't given until the end of the season, I expect that Cechs answer wasn't "keep him it's just bad form, he's the future of the club".

Lampard was then sacked by Roman. 

Thats what happened. I think Cech has the clout to persuade Roman to hold fire. I don't think he used it. I'm certain of it. 

The idea that he wasn't consulted is laughable. 

Cech is at the function as the so called Technical and Performance Advisor for the club - So you're free to believe in this since it's very possible that he was simply asked how are our performances and he could have simply said that our performances aren't good enough and that would be him just doing his job. It's worth to add that Roman himself never before put out a personal statement about sacking a manager, he only did it for Lampard.

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1 hour ago, bisright1 said:

Semantics of what is "key to a decision".

Marina and Roman would have spoke to Cech. 

What is happening. Why are we losing. 

Cech would have given an answer. Looking at how fast the decision was made, how Lampard wasn't given until the end of the season, I expect that Cechs answer wasn't "keep him it's just bad form, he's the future of the club".

Lampard was then sacked by Roman. 

Thats what happened. I think Cech has the clout to persuade Roman to hold fire. I don't think he used it. I'm certain of it. 

The idea that he wasn't consulted is laughable. 

Ok, if you say so...

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1 hour ago, bisright1 said:

Sorry I slipped into hyperbole with my 100%

I'm 99% sure Cech was a part of that decision. If he wasn't, then I don't really know what the point of his job is.

Hypothetically. Marina Granovskaia (who is responsible for the day to day running of the club) is concerned with the teams poor results.

She speaks to Chairman Bruce Buck and owner Roman Abramovich who all agree a change of management is the agreed best course of action. 

Petr Cech is asked his opinion in his role as intermediary between board and coaching staff. He says, "I think you should give Lampard more time". 

If, in this Hypothetical, Cech's opinion differs from Granovskaia, Abramovich and Buck do you honestly think that would make the slightest difference? 

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1 minute ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Hypothetically. Marina Granovskaia (who is responsible for the day to day running of the club) is concerned with the teams poor results.

She speaks to Chairman Bruce Buck and owner Roman Abramovich who all agree a change of management is the agreed best course of action. 

Petr Cech is asked his opinion in his role as intermediary between board and coaching staff. He says, "I think you should give Lampard more time". 

If, in this Hypothetical, Cech's opinion differs from Granovskaia, Abramovich and Buck do you honestly think that would make the slightest difference? 

Yes. That is exactly what I think. 

Thank you for summarizing my thoughts 🤣

Edited by bisright1
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1 hour ago, bisright1 said:

Others have. Which is really the whole point of what I've been talking about here. 

But I'm just going round in circles here. 

 

Who has said he wasnt consulted? You keep coming out with these ridiculous strawman arguments.

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1 hour ago, charierre said:

If he had, it would have been Cech that delivered the dismissal notice rather than Marina as has been reported. Again I say it really is speculation on my behalf.

If the reports following Frank's dismissal are to be believed Marina Granovskaia called Lampard to attend a meeting at the club and Bruce Buck was also present. 

To my understanding, Petr Cech wasn't even in the room when Lampard was sacked. 

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22 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Peter Cech would have little to no say in the manager being sacked. 

He's a liasion between the coaching staff and the board. A glorified messenger basically. 

@dkw

This is how the entire thread of this conversation starter. 

That's what I disagree with. I think Cech is a powerful enough voice that if he backed Lampard, he'd have been given another month. Some people think Cech doesn't have that power, but some people think he has basically no voice whatsoever. 

Cech for me is our de facto technical director, he's central to all our long term planning, our transfer decisions. If he thought Lampard was a key part of those plans he'd have been able to block it. But even if I'm wrong in that, he is still definitely a strong voice in the conversation. He's not a glorified messenger. Or in a job for the old boys. 

Edited by bisright1
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2 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

@dkw

This is how the entire thread of this conversation starter. 

That's what I disagree with. I think Cech is a powerful enough voice that if he backed Lampard, he'd have been given another month. Some people think Cech doesn't have that power, but some people think he has basically no voice whatsoever. 

That doesnt say he definitely wasn't consulted, just that he would have little or no say, which is more than likely true.

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9 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

@dkw

This is how the entire thread of this conversation starter. 

That's what I disagree with. I think Cech is a powerful enough voice that if he backed Lampard, he'd have been given another month. Some people think Cech doesn't have that power, but some people think he has basically no voice whatsoever. 

Marina doesn't need to ask Cech about his personal opinion - that's not his job nor her job.

He can maintain his professional role without getting mixed into some personal feelings that he has about Lampard, he's not a Roy Keane/Rio Ferdinand/Paul Scholes on TV reassuring the viewers that "Olle Gunnar is the right man for the job." - Whatever happens to Lampard isn't his concern that's not a part of the description of his job.

Marina would ask him something like: "Has the team's performances been optimal or not?" or "Have our players been performing well in the most recent games?" or "How do you feel about our recent performances and what has been the problem?", and so on...

And to those kind of questions he wouldn't be able to say:"I think you should give Lampard more time." - That's not his role at the club: "  he provides advice on all football and performance matters throughout the club as well as helping to maintain strong links between our men’s and Academy teams, ensuring that the various support departments are working together effectively.

Edited by Gol15
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Not sure I understand why there is such a b/w type of thinking. Who knows if they'd have sacked Frank if Tuchel weren't available. There aren't really that many managers around that are experienced, provide the basis for entertaining football (that's why Allegri is out of the job for...ages) and are available as well. So I don't think it was just a dismissal because the board got 100% dissatisfied with Frank but moreso that a good opportunity arose - almost out of the blue - and they took the chance. Quite professional, hence quite ruthless as well one can argue. The easy upcoming run of games made for a nice entrée and was a good opportunity to get a firm grip with the new combination.

Frank did a good, solid job given the circumstances- but imo he was forced to make exceptional progress to challenge the doubts he as an almost completely unproofen and inexperienced manager necessarily inherited.

 

Anyway, since this is the TT thread and I saw about every game he coached in the last 5-6 years I'm really happy this club and TT+staff finally matched. A few missing pieces and the squad is made in heaven for him. Just a guess though.

Edited by weetee
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15 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Marina doesn't need to ask Cech about his personal opinion - that's not his job nor her job.

He can maintain his professional role without getting mixed into some personal feelings that he has about Lampard, he's not a Roy Keane/Rio Ferdinand/Paul Scholes on TV reassuring the viewers that "Olle Gunnar is the right man for the job." - Whatever happens to Lampard isn't his concern that's not a part of the description of his job.

Marina would ask him something like: "Has the team's performances been optimal or not?" or "Have our players been performing well in the most recent games?" or "How do you feel about our recent performances and what has been the problem?", and so on...

And to those kind of questions he wouldn't be able to say:"I think you should give Lampard more time." - That's not his role at the club: "  he provides advice on all football and performance matters throughout the club as well as helping to maintain strong links between our men’s and Academy teams, ensuring that the various support departments are working together effectively.

I think that's exactly what his role is. Thats exactly what that says to me. 

How do you think providing advice on football and performance matters doesn't extend to the first team coach?

Edited by bisright1
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Just now, bisright1 said:

I think that's exactly what his role is. Thats exactly what that says to me. 

How so? Being a link between our first team and academy team and being involved for the assessment of our performance and football stuff has nothing to do with the decision of sacking or appointing a manager at all.

Cech is also a registered player for us still so he has a lot to do with training and he himself said that it was him that recommended the signing of Mendy so clearly the club relied on him to improve our performances in multiple ways but mostly in the most practical way you can imagine (Specially since Kepa as the record keeper signing has been a big issue for us). All this makes sense so no need for you to search for stuff that simply isn't there. I think you might have some level of a confirmation bias, you're just interpreting what's written as if it's clear as day that he's so high in the hierarchy, he isn't.

Nowhere does it say that he has such an advance role as the one that you think he has. He's an adviser, that alone suggests that he makes advices from what he knows, training and goalkeepers and we have evidence of that.

He's not doing Marina's job advising Roman that's not his job, she is doing that job herself. If you go by plain facts and just logic - Cech has done his job only and that job didn't and doesn't include him saying to Roman or Marina that a manager should get sacked.

You're making Cech look like he's everything now, the right hand of Roman, the guy that trains the team, a registered player... He might as well be a ball boy during games if we're going to make him do absolutely everything at the club.

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