Next new Striker

[Nevamind]

Is Mbpappe out of the question? 

Edited June 6, 2021 by Nevamind

[Gol15]

33 minutes ago, mojo said:

Like I said I would rather go for Sancho + Rice than for Haaland alone for around the same price. Just give Kai the role of a starter and watch him get both goals and assists with Sancho and Pulisic running around him.

[axman2526]

3 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Like I said I would rather go for Sancho + Rice than for Haaland alone for around the same price. Just give Kai the role of a starter and watch him get both goals and assists with Sancho and Pulisic running around him.

If Haalands price this summer is 200mill, then for sure Sancho and Rice represent better value and would come at less than that.

Widely reported Dortmund have told United the price is 81.5mill, Rice I expect we could land for 80mill or, with good negotiating, bring it down to 45mill plus Tammy.

[big blue]

Fjortoft said on espn we were very serious about Haaland, and that there are developments on going. He was pretty spot on with the Havertz stuff last year, and as he his friends with Haalands dad, maybe there is some truth to it. 

Now we have seen Dortmund leak this €200m figure for a player they said was unsellable 2 weeks ago. 

Maybe theres a chance we get him, although i dont think we would pay €200m upfront, but perhaps we could work out a heavily incentivised deal, with €130m -€140m, and performance related addons, like league titles, champions league titles, goals, balon d'ors etc, making up the rest of the money. Similar to the deal we agreed with Real for Hazard, which had about €50m in addons. 

 

[Guest Sindre]

1 hour ago, big blue said:

Fjortoft said on espn we were very serious about Haaland, and that there are developments on going

That certainly sounds interesting. In this case he's probably the best possible source as he knows Alf Inge Haaland and Erling. As well as having as many contacts in Germany as anyone.

[SydneyChelsea]

Robinho Hulk Hazard Neymar Lukaku Havertz Haaland - It's happening

[weetee]

Well, quite frankly, if Sancho goes to United, which seems very likely, it'd be almost dissapointing if Chelsea didn't get a proper AAA-attacking player in. And Haaland would be the be(a)st. Crossing fingers.

 

That said, I'm pretty certain we will see a 433 or 442 more often next season regardless. We just didn't had the time to proper train multiple formations and it seems like it was a pretty decent idea to try to emphasize on the 343 as much as possible last season.

[ForeverCarefree]

13 hours ago, ducavis said:

What options? Our best option on the wing is probably Werner. Pulisic I have my suspicions about, he has never hit double figures for either goals or assists and has been playing for 5 years. Sancho has scored more goals & assists in the last 2 than Pulisic in his whole career. You compare our options with our rivals and we are light years behind. Utd adding Sancho to Rashford and Greenwood is a scary prospect when they also have Fernandes who can hit double figures in goals & assists.

In Pulisic's first season he got 9 goals and 6 assists in 25 appearances so 1 goal contribtion every 1.6 games. Total record for Chelsea is 31 goal contributions in 77 appearances in all competitions. That's a solid contribution for any winger so he's demonstrated what he's capable of but no doubt had a bit of an underwhelming season this year. 

Hudson-Odoi has 29 goal contributions in 98 appearances so roughly 1 contribution every 3 games for a 20 year old that's never had an extended run of games in the first team is again respectable especially as most of those appearances are from the subs bench. 

Throw in Mount and Havertz who can and do play in the wide positions and that's 4 players aged 22 or younger that we have for the wide positions Sancho would be the 5th. 

[axman2526]

5 hours ago, big blue said:

Fjortoft said on espn we were very serious about Haaland, and that there are developments on going. He was pretty spot on with the Havertz stuff last year, and as he his friends with Haalands dad, maybe there is some truth to it. 

Now we have seen Dortmund leak this €200m figure for a player they said was unsellable 2 weeks ago. 

Maybe theres a chance we get him, although i dont think we would pay €200m upfront, but perhaps we could work out a heavily incentivised deal, with €130m -€140m, and performance related addons, like league titles, champions league titles, goals, balon d'ors etc, making up the rest of the money. Similar to the deal we agreed with Real for Hazard, which had about €50m in addons. 

 

That is a concern. Dortmund would be foolish not to cash in given the release clause next summer is what, 70mill?

Personally I have reservations about blowing our war chest on one player, albeit one who could be amazing but has only been so for a few season, one of which has been at a top club.

At 200mill he is a huge gamble, that is an albatross around his neck compared to 70mill. At 200mill his agent will want an extra 60mill for his "work" alone.

He would come to the PL as by far the most expensive PL player of all time, he would be under the microscope every game. Ever poor touch, pass or finish demonized, every success played down as "what do you expect for the PL bar far most expensive player". All ramped up x10 because he went to Chelsea.

Then there is the fact from January 2022 and every transfer window after it his agent will be saying how he dreams of a bigger club, wants to play for Barca, Real etc. Like he does with Pogba.

Then those clubs wont be willing to offer us our money back and he leaves for 120mill, assuming he is successful.

At that price and with who his agent is we should stay well clear imo.

[Guest Sindre]

I simply cannot imagine Dortmund would decline an offer of let's say 150 million euros (£128 million) and miss out on 75 million euros for one more season of Haaland. 

The real stumbling block may be the agent fee for Raiola and Alf Inge.

[Deino]

Are we really expecting the club to fork 100m+ for 1 player?

[axman2526]

16 minutes ago, Sindre said:

I simply cannot imagine Dortmund would decline an offer of let's say 150 million euros (£128 million) and miss out on 75 million euros for one more season of Haaland. 

The real stumbling block may be the agent fee for Raiola and Alf Inge.

Indeed. We should hold ourselves to a better standard than dealing with the likes of Raiola. Or have we not seen what goes on with Pogba every window?

[ducavis]

3 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

In Pulisic's first season he got 9 goals and 6 assists in 25 appearances so 1 goal contribtion every 1.6 games. Total record for Chelsea is 31 goal contributions in 77 appearances in all competitions. That's a solid contribution for any winger so he's demonstrated what he's capable of but no doubt had a bit of an underwhelming season this year. 

Hudson-Odoi has 29 goal contributions in 98 appearances so roughly 1 contribution every 3 games for a 20 year old that's never had an extended run of games in the first team is again respectable especially as most of those appearances are from the subs bench. 

Throw in Mount and Havertz who can and do play in the wide positions and that's 4 players aged 22 or younger that we have for the wide positions Sancho would be the 5th. 

Those aren’t good stats though, and i have Pulisic at 9 goals & 4 assists. You compare it with his peers around the same age group and they are bang average, unless you view his output with rose tinted glasses.

Lets assume; 

- A good season is 10-15 contributions

- A very good season is 15-20 contributions

- A superb season is 20+ contributions 

* Pulisic: 182.3 mins  [1 good season]
 

* CHO: 191.9 mins {173.8mins over 1000mins}

* Harvey Barnes: 168.4 mins {149.7mins over 1000mins} [2 good seasons]

* Rashford: 146.6 mins {126.8mins last 2 seasons} [ 2 superb, 1 very good season]

* Ferran Torres: 145.1 mins

* Greenwood: 156.9 mins [1 good]

Those stats are for U23 players in the Top 5, they are not anywhere near solid stats IMO and you wonder what CHO could do with Pulisic’s mins. As for what he is capable of; he has had one very good half season in his career. Needs a big season of 15+ contributions to be considered a very good winger. 

Now 2 players out of that age range that their respective fans are calling out for having sh*t seasons;

* Sterling (10 gls  + 7 ass] 149.2 mins [3 superb, 1 very good, 3 good seasons]

* Mane (11 gls + 7 ass] 156.2 mins [2 superb, 4 very good, 1 good season]

I don’t consider Mount/ Havertz as wingers and I’d rather not see them out wide. But since you insist

* Mount: 250.7 mins [2 good season]

* Havertz: 217 mins

* Foden: 147.4 {115.2 mins over 1000mins} [1 good season]
 

Mount and Havertz are way behind Foden who I would consider a very good winger. Like I said they are not wingers so I’d rather forget about their contributions but they both need to step it up also to near 15+ contributions next season.

Are our wingers good enough? Not IMO. If Tuchel doesn’t rate or can’t be bothered to develop CHO, then sell him to Bayern who want him again but we are pricing him out of a move yet again. Sell him and upgrade the RW to either Sancho or Raphina (6 goals, 9 assists; 159.6 mins per contribution) who will be clear upgrades to what we have. 

It will be nice to have a 20+ goal striker, but in the modern game your wingers should also be able to hit double figures.

 

 

[Gol15]

13 hours ago, axman2526 said:

If Haalands price this summer is 200mill, then for sure Sancho and Rice represent better value and would come at less than that.

Widely reported Dortmund have told United the price is 81.5mill, Rice I expect we could land for 80mill or, with good negotiating, bring it down to 45mill plus Tammy.

They basically don't want to sell him but they managed to get 125-130m for Dembele some years back so if someone is that desperate here is a bait of 190m pounds.

Rice for 75m and a better offer for Sancho than Man United around 90m and we get 2 of the brightest English players for less money. Havertz deserves to start games, invest the minutes for him like we did for Mount and he'll become world class, according to Dave he already is basically. Sancho is a player capable of scoring 15 goals per season or at the very least 10 goals + 10 assists and he fits perfectly on the right wing since Ziyech is a bit underwhelming.

Rotate Pulisic and Werner on the left and keep Havertz and Tammy in the middle, Sancho to the right with CHO, perfect IMO.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Gol15

[abramovich]

 

[Guest Sindre]

Gathering pace...

Fjørtoft saying there is confidence it could be done makes me optimistic.

[Frankie8Lampard]

26 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

They basically don't want to sell him but they managed to get 125-130m for Dembele some years back so if someone is that desperate here is a bait of 190m pounds.

Rice for 75m and a better offer for Sancho than Man United around 90m and we get 2 of the brightest English players for less money. Havertz deserves to start games, invest the minutes for him like we did for Mount and he'll become world class, according to Dave he already is basically. Sancho is a player capable of scoring 15 goals per season or at the very least 10 goals + 10 assists and he fits perfectly on the right wing since Ziyech is a bit underwhelming.

Rotate Pulisic and Werner on the left and keep Havertz and Tammy in the middle, Sancho to the right with CHO, perfect IMO.

After all our missed chances this year I’m honestly tired of playing false 9s (and I’d rather not risk going into the season with tammy as our main striker). We need a proper number 9 more than anything this summer so personally I’m not a fan of the sancho-rice combo.

[Gol15]

7 minutes ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

After all our missed chances this year I’m honestly tired of playing false 9s (and I’d rather not risk going into the season with tammy as our main striker). We need a proper number 9 more than anything this summer so personally I’m not a fan of the sancho-rice combo.

I just think that Havertz is at his best when he's around the middle of the pitch, if we can pay the wages for Haaland then by all means sign him, we won't regret it but IMO Havertz should be a starter... Maybe a 4-4-1-1 would fit for almost everyone?

                    Haaland

                    Havertz

Mount/Pulisic  Rice Kante  Ziyech/CHO

Chilwell T.Silva Christensen James

[Argo]

22 minutes ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

After all our missed chances this year I’m honestly tired of playing false 9s (and I’d rather not risk going into the season with tammy as our main striker). We need a proper number 9 more than anything this summer so personally I’m not a fan of the sancho-rice combo.

I'm not as fixated on a striker as many despite the records of our players last season.

I think there's a lot of mitigating circumstances. Havertz with very bad Covid then returning when we were at the meltdown period under Frank, Werner having a few weeks of bad misses which then escalated, Pulisic injured for most of the early part of the season and then returning in the Frank meltdown period, Ziyech losing his momentum he was building before injury, and not to mention three were in their first season and before Tuchel arrived weren't getting coaching to the required level they needed at this level. I don't think it's unreasonable to think those four and Mount (possibly CHO too) will all improve by atleast 4/5 league goals next season which will effectively be new striker numbers.

I have enjoyed the fluidity that's been building with Kai as the false 9 and I think we are onto something going forward. An out and out striker could potentially put us backwards in our evolution even if he offers impressive numbers, ofcourse the main person I'm referring too is Lukaku but even with Haaland I can't help but look at the fact BVB have got worse despite his unbelievable personal numbers.

[Adamrb]

I can't allow myself to believe Haaland would come here. But my word it would be some statement of intent.

The one thing that I keep coming back to is, because of Covid, FFP is dead this year (or so I understand). So if Roman doesn't mind paying the money, there's no reason not to go all in.

 

 

[Drogba1]

3 hours ago, axman2526 said:

That is a concern. Dortmund would be foolish not to cash in given the release clause next summer is what, 70mill?

Personally I have reservations about blowing our war chest on one player, albeit one who could be amazing but has only been so for a few season, one of which has been at a top club.

At 200mill he is a huge gamble, that is an albatross around his neck compared to 70mill. At 200mill his agent will want an extra 60mill for his "work" alone.

He would come to the PL as by far the most expensive PL player of all time, he would be under the microscope every game. Ever poor touch, pass or finish demonized, every success played down as "what do you expect for the PL bar far most expensive player". All ramped up x10 because he went to Chelsea.

Then there is the fact from January 2022 and every transfer window after it his agent will be saying how he dreams of a bigger club, wants to play for Barca, Real etc. Like he does with Pogba.

Then those clubs wont be willing to offer us our money back and he leaves for 120mill, assuming he is successful.

At that price and with who his agent is we should stay well clear imo.

Even if Dortmund rob us blind (which they will) I think this is a good deal. I can't remember the last time I saw a 20 year old that good apart from Messi. When you look at where Mount and James were at that age and how far they've come since then, the sky could really be the limit for this guy. There's always the risk of serious injury but aside from that he's only going to get better at this rate

[axman2526]

51 minutes ago, Drogba1 said:

Even if Dortmund rob us blind (which they will) I think this is a good deal. I can't remember the last time I saw a 20 year old that good apart from Messi. When you look at where Mount and James were at that age and how far they've come since then, the sky could really be the limit for this guy. There's always the risk of serious injury but aside from that he's only going to get better at this rate

If we set aside all the money involved. Not just Dortmund getting a huge fee, but his agents getting huge fees and his wages being what, 500k a week?, what has he done to merit such pressure.

He has never expierenced anything like the gold fish bowl that is Chelsea. Being a premier league record signing brings intense pressure, ask Kepa. Heck even beng a big money signing causes others to sh*t themselves here. Werner, Torres, Sheva etc. 

What they felt is nothing compared to a 200mill man who has had 1 season in a top league.

But let's assume he is successful, let's assume he is as good as many believe. 

Ok. For one he is on record as starting we are not a big club nor one he dreams of playing for. So we are basically a Dortmund replacement to him. So if he is blazing trails every window his loud mouth agent will be pushing stories out how he deserves a bigger stage, that Real and Barca want him, and Chelsea are holding him hostage by not letting him go to them for 100mill less than we paid, calling us slavers etc.

It would be a circus.

[haviet1]

15 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

If we set aside all the money involved. Not just Dortmund getting a huge fee, but his agents getting huge fees and his wages being what, 500k a week?, what has he done to merit such pressure.

 

 

That sure is a heck of a lot of money put on a 20 yr old.

Sure he looks sexy now in the Bundi, but what's to guarantee it will translate in the EPL? Werner was scoring goals for fun for years in the Bundi.

200M is a HUGE gamble. Unless Maria works her magic and bring that number down to around 100M.

 

 

[dansubrosa]

Of course I’d take him, regardless of the price and wages. He’s one of these talents you only see every now and then, like Mbappe, Neymar etc. I’m not going to put him in the same bracket as Ronaldo & Messi but he certainly has the potential.

My point is that you simply don’t let these opportunities pass, if we stand a chance, it has to be done.

What if we have a bad season and fail to finish top 4? Would Haaland still be interested when he’s got offers from the best clubs?

This summer is our biggest chance and we need to do whatever it takes.

[axman2526]

52 minutes ago, dansubrosa said:

Of course I’d take him, regardless of the price and wages. He’s one of these talents you only see every now and then, like Mbappe, Neymar etc. I’m not going to put him in the same bracket as Ronaldo & Messi but he certainly has the potential.

My point is that you simply don’t let these opportunities pass, if we stand a chance, it has to be done.

What if we have a bad season and fail to finish top 4? Would Haaland still be interested when he’s got offers from the best clubs?

This summer is our biggest chance and we need to do whatever it takes.

Not at these figures mate. If he gets 500k then what about Kante, or Mount, or Mendy or Havertz etc?

Our wage structure would be destroyed, we would be making huge losses each year or we make him a special case and risk squad harmony. 

The money being talked about is Ronaldo or Messi at their pomp money and he simply has not proved he is that yet.