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Chelsea v Man Utd (PL) Sun 28th Feb 2021 16:30 GMT


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19 hours ago, dansubrosa said:

The result last night will have given the team a huge boost of confidence, so I'm feeling pretty good about the game. I'll be surprised if we don't win to be honest... That United team is pretty poor and they're punching way above their weight at the moment.

We just need to take the game to them and we should walk away with 3 points, we are a better team than United. Our squad depth is incredible really and I don't think playing last night would affect us physically. Havertz can come in for Mount, Kante, Abraham, Pulisic, Ziyech, James, Chilwell, Silva, etc. Incredible depth.

They're far from poor, in fact they're well organized all across the pitch and unlike us are quite dangerous and clinical going forward. Bruno Fernandes has probably been the signing of the season and the bastard keeps delivering, as much as I hate to admit that, he's been more effective so far than all of our big money signings put together. Their counter is very good, Rashford, James and Cavani have been in great form as of late, and midfield even without Pogba is working well.

Their playing style isn't as attractive as City's or Pool's but they're effective and difficult to beat. Of course, we have a chance, but it's not going to be easy, far from it.

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10 hours ago, Imran_CFC said:

Tuchel has done incredibly well since he has come in and my guess is that the board feel vindicated in their decision of letting Lampard go but as resolute as we have been defensively we certainly haven't been creating many chances with the exception of the Burnley game and the first half against Newcastle. 

Wolves we didn't create much at all, Southampton we struggled, Barnsley we were horrendous, Atletico Madrid is understandable considering they played with a back 6, Spurs we created a few half chances but not many clear cut chances & Sheffield Utd was a struggle too.

This is not a dig at Tuchel because its a continuation of what we've seen since December but stating we have been creating plenty of chances seems a little OTT. I think Tuchel has recognised this and opted to shore us up defensively to ensure we get something out of the game even if we struggle to score many the other end whereas with Lampard we were a lot more open and when we didn't create we still gave up big opportunities. 

Sheffield we did create chances, just not as many as people were expecting. People were expecting us to roll them over, even though Sheffield look like a different side this year to what they were last year. 

I think we can open United up. 

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17 minutes ago, abramovich said:

They're far from poor, in fact they're well organized all across the pitch and unlike us are quite dangerous and clinical going forward. Bruno Fernandes has probably been the signing of the season and the bastard keeps delivering, as much as I hate to admit that, he's been more effective so far than all of our big money signings put together. Their counter is very good, Rashford, James and Cavani have been in great form as of late, and midfield even without Pogba is working well.

Their playing style isn't as attractive as City's or Pool's but they're effective and difficult to beat. Of course, we have a chance, but it's not going to be easy, far from it.

I think it's a case of, make every game sound as easy as possible for Tuchel, so they don't have to give him any credit afterwards if he wins, and if he loses they can make it sound like he just bottled an easy game. 

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46 minutes ago, abramovich said:

They're far from poor, in fact they're well organized all across the pitch and unlike us are quite dangerous and clinical going forward. Bruno Fernandes has probably been the signing of the season and the bastard keeps delivering, as much as I hate to admit that, he's been more effective so far than all of our big money signings put together. Their counter is very good, Rashford, James and Cavani have been in great form as of late, and midfield even without Pogba is working well.

Their playing style isn't as attractive as City's or Pool's but they're effective and difficult to beat. Of course, we have a chance, but it's not going to be easy, far from it.

I find the downplaying of Utd really odd, they arent the Utd of old but they are still a very good side. They are getting some fortunate results but are attacking a lot better than we are.

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I don't see that much downplaying tbh - the narrative always was that with Atletico and United (+Everton) the real tests came up so this certainly is one of the bigger ones. But that said, I also agree that they are clearly beatable and a lot of their success results by the individual brilliance of Bruno and less because of their superior setup as a team. They're still a very good team of course but I'd say the odds are rather 50/50. And with the few days of additional rest - I wasn't aware they have to play today - I'm growing confident we can edge out a win, especially since Tuchel has played them four times already and one can be quite certain they'll play the very same setup this time as well. I think TT is head and shoulders above Ole so I'm pretty sure he knows exactly what he wants and can prepare accordingly + react during matchtime which is a thing Ole for some reason never does.

Edited by weetee
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1 hour ago, Slojo said:

I think it's a case of, make every game sound as easy as possible for Tuchel, so they don't have to give him any credit afterwards if he wins, and if he loses they can make it sound like he just bottled an easy game. 

Get that chip off your shoulder mate, if anything I've given Tuchel a huge compliment by stating how confident I am about beating United.

I really don't think they're that good. Bruno have transformed the team, without him they wouldn't be in top 4. Without Bruno, they look like an ordinary team. It's like us playing without Hazard while he was here.

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7 minutes ago, dansubrosa said:

Get that chip off your shoulder mate, if anything I've given Tuchel a huge compliment by stating how confident I am about beating United.

I really don't think they're that good. Bruno have transformed the team, without him they wouldn't be in top 4. Without Bruno, they look like an ordinary team. It's like us playing without Hazard while he was here.

At the risk of this backfiring i'd be a lot more worried if they play Van De Beek because he actually has big game pedigree, including at The Bridge.

United have scored one goal from open play in 12 big six clashes with Bruno on the pitch, he's flat tracking well but has looked lost against half decent opposition.

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16 minutes ago, dansubrosa said:

Get that chip off your shoulder mate, if anything I've given Tuchel a huge compliment by stating how confident I am about beating United.

I really don't think they're that good. Bruno have transformed the team, without him they wouldn't be in top 4. Without Bruno, they look like an ordinary team. It's like us playing without Hazard while he was here.

They're still 2nd in the league and dangerous on the counter attack, stylistically that's never good for us. Even if you don't rate United, which is fair, I don't know how anyone can think this is going to be an easy game. 

Same with Atletico, just because they were missing their CB, they still had Suarez and Felix who've been in amazing form all season. 

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4 hours ago, Slojo said:

Sheffield we did create chances, just not as many as people were expecting. People were expecting us to roll them over, even though Sheffield look like a different side this year to what they were last year. 

I think we can open United up. 

I am sorry mate but in my view Sheffield was a very shaky performance we had 3 shots on target and scored 2 and outperformed our xg which was 1.4 in that game, I don't remember any clear cut chances however we did control the game well once we went 2-1 ahead.

In reference to a later post about people wanting to downplay opponents in order not to give Tuchel credit I think that is just a false narrative, it might happen after a game when we win and the game that comes to mind is probably Spurs because of Mourinho's tactics especially in the first half were bizarre. In majority of other cases people have just been hugely pessimistic about our chances going into games due to the way that we've been playing. Tuchel is a Chelsea man and all Chelsea fans wants him to do well, majority of people who backed Frank will back Tuchel because the reasons to keep Frank were not purely about wanting Frank to stay because he is a club legend but also to do with having some form of continuation and consistency from a Managerial perspective, this will still be the case with Tuchel, if he hits a sticky patch or does not make top 4 I would still want him to continue into next season and have a summer window and pre-season to work with the squad.

Manchester United are a weird case because I don't think they are as good as their league position highlights them to be however having said that they have a style tailor made to exploit some of our weaknesses. In my view they are the best counter attacking team in the league who can exploit the pocket of spaces left by our WB's and with Cavani they have an experienced & Intelligent CF who compliments the youth they have incredibly well. You combine that with VAR and the ability to get any 50/50 decision in your favor then that reflects a pretty big threat. 

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11 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

I am sorry mate but in my view Sheffield was a very shaky performance we had 3 shots on target and scored 2 and outperformed our xg which was 1.4 in that game, I don't remember any clear cut chances however we did control the game well once we went 2-1 ahead.

In reference to a later post about people wanting to downplay opponents in order not to give Tuchel credit I think that is just a false narrative, it might happen after a game when we win and the game that comes to mind is probably Spurs because of Mourinho's tactics especially in the first half were bizarre. In majority of other cases people have just been hugely pessimistic about our chances going into games due to the way that we've been playing. Tuchel is a Chelsea man and all Chelsea fans wants him to do well, majority of people who backed Frank will back Tuchel because the reasons to keep Frank were not purely about wanting Frank to stay because he is a club legend but also to do with having some form of continuation and consistency from a Managerial perspective, this will still be the case with Tuchel, if he hits a sticky patch or does not make top 4 I would still want him to continue into next season and have a summer window and pre-season to work with the squad.

Manchester United are a weird case because I don't think they are as good as their league position highlights them to be however having said that they have a style tailor made to exploit some of our weaknesses. In my view they are the best counter attacking team in the league who can exploit the pocket of spaces left by our WB's and with Cavani they have an experienced & Intelligent CF who compliments the youth they have incredibly well. You combine that with VAR and the ability to get any 50/50 decision in your favor then that reflects a pretty big threat. 

I don't think United are that good either by the way, when you watch them, they can barely play football. But at the end of the day, they keep winning, which surprises me. They're not going to win the league, I already knew that. But f**k me, they do kill games off, much better than we do. 

We can win this, but it's not going to be easy, and I wouldn't be surprised if we lost. Just due to the styles alone, we are pretty open when we lose the ball, United will take advantage of that. Lampard played for the point at Old Trafford (Imo a great decision, and a great point). I don't think Tuchel will do that, I think he'll go in with the same style of play against Atletico, we'll try to outplay them and win the game. 

I'll be gutted if we lose, but I wouldn't be surprised. 

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We should be confident going into this game specially after our victory over Atletico. This is a clash of two teams playing well overall and getting the results so I think both will want 3 points.

It's obvious that we must respect Man United and play with high intensity from the start, after all they have scored the most goals in the PL and they are the second best team so far.

IMO Tuchel should save T.Silva for Liverpool since our current backline without Silva did a good job against Joao Felix and Suarez so no reason to rush him back since the very next game is equally big and important, if not even more since Liverpool will be looking to climb back up.

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42 minutes ago, Slojo said:

I don't think United are that good either by the way, when you watch them, they can barely play football. But at the end of the day, they keep winning, which surprises me. They're not going to win the league, I already knew that. But f**k me, they do kill games off, much better than we do. 

We can win this, but it's not going to be easy, and I wouldn't be surprised if we lost. Just due to the styles alone, we are pretty open when we lose the ball, United will take advantage of that. Lampard played for the point at Old Trafford (Imo a great decision, and a great point). I don't think Tuchel will do that, I think he'll go in with the same style of play against Atletico, we'll try to outplay them and win the game. 

I'll be gutted if we lose, but I wouldn't be surprised. 

What do you mean with "played for the point"? A draw? I'd agree that Tuchel will almost certainly play against them how he approached Atletico but with that setup a draw is quite likely imho (as was the most realisitic result against Atletico although Chelsea was the way better team). I'd say Ole would be quite ok with a draw - he doesn't seem to be the adventurous type so I guess they will sit deep and play on the counter to eventually win it. Given our rather obvious problem with translating our offensive play (which I think works quite well in general given the circumstance) into shots on target I don't think they'll be afraid to do so.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, weetee said:

What do you mean with "played for the point"? A draw? I'd agree that Tuchel will almost certainly play against them how he approached Atletico but with that setup a draw is quite likely imho (as was the most realisitic result against Atletico although Chelsea was the way better team). I'd say Ole would be quite ok with a draw - he doesn't seem to be the adventurous type so I guess they will sit deep and play on the counter to eventually win it. Given our rather obvious problem with translating our offensive play (which I think works quite well in general given the circumstance) into shots on target I don't think they'll be afraid to do so.

 

 

He (@Slojo) thinks that Lampard was mostly focusing not to lose the game that time and that we played for a draw. It's probably the only game that Lampard played with a back 3 this season - at the start of the season Man United were on a good run and they looked very dangerous on the counter, I also believe that we setup to not concede a goal and that Lampard made the correct decision at the time.
We must also keep in mind that the refs are almost always in favor of Man United's point of view, Sir Alex Ferguson may be retired but he's still out there somewhere in the shadows...

Edited by Gol15
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4 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

He (@Slojo) thinks that Lampard was mostly focusing not to lose the game that time and that we played for a draw. It's probably the only game that Lampard played with a back 3 this season - at the start of the season Man United were on a good run and they looked very dangerous on the counter, I also believe that we setup to not concede a goal and that Lampard made the correct decision at the time.
We must also keep in mind that the refs are almost always in favor of Man United's point of view, Sir Alex Ferguson may be retired but he's still out there somewhere in the shadows...

Spot on. With our record at Old Trafford over the past 10 or so years, it's been awful. We've only had like 2 wins there, something stupid like that. 

And with the number of times Ole kept getting results against us even though we were outplaying his team each and every time, it was the correct time to make adjustments and frustrate them. We did that, and the point was better for us than them. Just like the point Spurs got at the Bridge was better for them than it was for us. 

Edited by Slojo
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18 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

He (@Slojo) thinks that Lampard was mostly focusing not to lose the game that time and that we played for a draw. It's probably the only game that Lampard played with a back 3 this season - at the start of the season Man United were on a good run and they looked very dangerous on the counter, I also believe that we setup to not concede a goal and that Lampard made the correct decision at the time.
We must also keep in mind that the refs are almost always in favor of Man United's point of view, Sir Alex Ferguson may be retired but he's still out there someone in the shadows...

Ok, thanks for that explanation. Still I think the very same is happening right now under Tuchel - and I'd guess you guys certainly agree - since our main focus right now is to be stable and organized which, luckily I might add because otherwise that system looks and feels pointless, results in us not allowing many shots on our goal but also on the opponents goal with narrow but deserved wins (mostly) so far. So with the very same setup like the one against Atletico a draw is in my opinion the most likely one. Which sounds reasonable since I think both, Ole and Tuchel, both want to minimize their chances to lose - rather than maximize them to win. If you understand what I mean.

 

That said, I'm very confident now that I know they have to play today while we can already prepare and because every game I saw by United that they wanted to play save was botched by them. I agree about Silva better be saved if possible and because I'd rather have Christensen in the middle who ain't that slow. 🤐

My hope is we can play out our strength at corner kicks/free kicks which is also one of their weaknesses.

 

edit: although Silva knows Cavani in and out so I might take that back and play him although he's slow as a turtle and Azpi's not the fastest as well.

Edited by weetee
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People who are saying they hope Silva are rested, I completely disagree. Silva has kept Cavani quiet last game and made that crucial tackle, only Silva would have saw that move coming, nobody else would and if it wasn’t for Silva, probably a goal for Cavani.

Cavani is a very intelligent footballer and I think we need Silva to keep him quiet. Imo Cavani is much more intelligent in attacking movement than any of Liverpool’s attackers. I’d rather see Silva being rested when we play Liverpool.

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3 minutes ago, dansubrosa said:

People who are saying they hope Silva are rested, I completely disagree. Silva has kept Cavani quiet last game and made that crucial tackle, only Silva would have saw that move coming, nobody else would and if it wasn’t for Silva, probably a goal for Cavani.

Cavani is a very intelligent footballer and I think we need Silva to keep him quiet. Imo Cavani is much more intelligent in attacking movement than any of Liverpool’s attackers. I’d rather see Silva being rested when we play Liverpool.

I agree, already edited my post regarding that, I tend to forget Cavani because I think he was extremely bad in the last three years he's been at PSG (either injured or incredibly wasteful) but he seems to blossom again at United so you're right imho.

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1 hour ago, dansubrosa said:

People who are saying they hope Silva are rested, I completely disagree. Silva has kept Cavani quiet last game and made that crucial tackle, only Silva would have saw that move coming, nobody else would and if it wasn’t for Silva, probably a goal for Cavani.

Cavani is a very intelligent footballer and I think we need Silva to keep him quiet. Imo Cavani is much more intelligent in attacking movement than any of Liverpool’s attackers. I’d rather see Silva being rested when we play Liverpool.

Good point, didn't consider that. 

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2 hours ago, dansubrosa said:

People who are saying they hope Silva are rested, I completely disagree. Silva has kept Cavani quiet last game and made that crucial tackle, only Silva would have saw that move coming, nobody else would and if it wasn’t for Silva, probably a goal for Cavani.

Cavani is a very intelligent footballer and I think we need Silva to keep him quiet. Imo Cavani is much more intelligent in attacking movement than any of Liverpool’s attackers. I’d rather see Silva being rested when we play Liverpool.

If Cavani plays and Silva doesnt then Cavani will absolutely find space in our area, and will find it quite easily as his movement is excellent and the other centre backs we have dont have the ability to follow him. Christensen over the past month or so has shown he`s the only one that could do it other than Silva.

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I think last time out Frank played for a point perhaps because of the previous meeting.

 

Manchester United (1) 4 Chelsea (0) 0

Date:Sunday, 11th August 2019 at 16:30ReportTable

Competition:Premier League     Position 19

Venue:Old Trafford

Attendance:73,620

Referee:Anthony Taylor

Manchester UnitedDavid De Gea, Aaron Wan-Bissaka, Victor Lindelof, Harry Maguire, Luke Shaw, Scott McTominay, Paul Pogba, Andreas Pereira (Daniel James 73), Jesse Lingard (Juan Mata 86),Marcus Rashford (Mason Greenwood 86), Anthony Martial

   Scorers Marcus Rashford 18 (Pen), Anthony Martial 65, Marcus Rashford 66, Daniel James 81

   Booked Jesse Lingard 48, Victor Lindelof 69, Anthony Martial 80

   Manager Ole Gunnar Solskjaer

Chelsea: 1 Kepa, 4 Andreas Christensen, 5 Jorginho ( 7 N'Golo Kante 73), 8 Ross Barkley (22 Christian Pulisic 58), 9 Tammy Abraham (18 Olivier Giroud 66), 11 Pedro, 15 Kurt Zouma, 17Mateo Kovacic, 19 Mason Mount, 28 Cesar Azpilicueta, 33 Emerson

   Booked Zouma 36, Jorginho 52, Abraham 57, Mount 69, Kante 90

   Manager Frank Lampard

 

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10 hours ago, JM7 said:

Looking at the other fixtures around us, we really could do with a win to keep up the pressure. 

City v West Ham

Liverpool v Sheff United 

Leicester v Arsenal

I imagine West Ham will lose so we need to take advantage given our tough run of fixtures. 

Not sure about the other two but the Blades are at home to Liverpool.

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We probably need to get 4 points from the next 2 games to avoid losing ground on the challengers for top 4. On paper this fixture looks trickier than Liverpool away midweek. United have been a little inconsistent but they are still City's closest rivals for the title. They have some defensive frailty but a lot of good attacking options. I think it will be a real challenge for us to keep a clean sheet.

We are certainly overdue some luck against United, especially in the reffing decisions. However I am not going to hold out any hope on that front.

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