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Leeds Utd vs Chelsea (PL) Sat 13th Mar 12:30 GMT


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2 points dropped really in the grand scheme of things, a game we should be winning if we want to guarantee that top 4, again no cutting edge which is becoming a regular concern now but the defence is looking solid so TT just needs to find that balance now.

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18 minutes ago, DidierDrogbalala said:

he had space yes but not one made himself available for him to create something, the 4 fowards didnt even create enough room for him to take a good shot.

If Kanté is not there to beak up the opponents attack and getting the ball back then whats his role ?

Kante's role was to be the link to our attack, the one that is tasked with keeping up the momentum of our build up play, but he killed momentum with his passing and indicisiveness. We can't keep saying that isn't Kante's role when what we are seeing is the total opposite. His role of being the player that breaks up counter attacks and quickly moves the ball on to attacking players is long gone, we haven't had him playing that way for the majority of these past 3 seasons now.

Teams are giving Kante space and marking others out of the game because they believe that Kante can't hurt them going forward. He's not going to be playing through balls to the strikers or wingers, he's not going to play many passes through the lines. He's going to move further forward into space and play a safe pass to the side, which is often either played too far in front or too far ahead of the player he is aiming at. It's possible that the movement was weak when Kante was on the ball because they didn't expect or believe he was going to play a through ball to them, he was looking for the short simple pass so that is what the attackers were expecting. 

I'm not blaming Kante for this, he's being asked to play a game that doesn't suit his skillset. It was Tuchel's decison to play him ahead of Kovacic, so really, it's Tuchel who I think should take most of the blame today. 

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11 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

Kante's role was to be the link to our attack, the one that is tasked with keeping up the momentum of our build up play, but he killed momentum with his passing and indicisiveness. We can't keep saying that isn't Kante's role when what we are seeing is the total opposite. His role of being the player that breaks up counter attacks and quickly moves the ball on to attacking players is long gone, we haven't had him playing that way for the majority of these past 3 seasons now.

Teams are giving Kante space and marking others out of the game because they believe that Kante can't hurt them going forward. He's not going to be playing through balls to the strikers or wingers, he's not going to play many passes through the lines. He's going to move further forward into space and play a safe pass to the side, which is often either played too far in front or too far ahead of the player he is aiming at. It's possible that the movement was weak when Kante was on the ball because they didn't expect or believe he was going to play a through ball to them, he was looking for the short simple pass so that is what the attackers were expecting. 

I'm not blaming Kante for this, he's being asked to play a game that doesn't suit his skillset. It was Tuchel's decison to play him ahead of Kovacic, so really, it's Tuchel who I think should take most of the blame today. 

Really well said, and basically sums up my last few posts on this subject, in a more eloquent way.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

Kante's role was to be the link to our attack, the one that is tasked with keeping up the momentum of our build up play, but he killed momentum with his passing and indicisiveness. We can't keep saying that isn't Kante's role when what we are seeing is the total opposite. His role of being the player that breaks up counter attacks and quickly moves the ball on to attacking players is long gone, we haven't had him playing that way for the majority of these past 3 seasons now.

Teams are giving Kante space and marking others out of the game because they believe that Kante can't hurt them going forward. He's not going to be playing through balls to the strikers or wingers, he's not going to play many passes through the lines. He's going to move further forward into space and play a safe pass to the side, which is often either played too far in front or too far ahead of the player he is aiming at. It's possible that the movement was weak when Kante was on the ball because they didn't expect or believe he was going to play a through ball to them, he was looking for the short simple pass so that is what the attackers were expecting. 

I'm not blaming Kante for this, he's being asked to play a game that doesn't suit his skillset. It was Tuchel's decison to play him ahead of Kovacic, so really, it's Tuchel who I think should take most of the blame today. 

Obviously, I completely disagree here Scott. I think Tuchel does too. He has recently said Kante's biggest contribution to our offense is the ability to consistently win the ball higher up the pitch. Which, there can be no argument, he does. He also drives forward with the ball at his feet and most often makes a forward pass. Most of which do find their intended target.

The part I have highlighted in your post above, most others on here tell me that is Jorginho's job? Dictate the tempo of our game?

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23 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

Kante's role was to be the link to our attack, the one that is tasked with keeping up the momentum of our build up play, but he killed momentum with his passing and indicisiveness. We can't keep saying that isn't Kante's role when what we are seeing is the total opposite. His role of being the player that breaks up counter attacks and quickly moves the ball on to attacking players is long gone, we haven't had him playing that way for the majority of these past 3 seasons now.

Teams are giving Kante space and marking others out of the game because they believe that Kante can't hurt them going forward. He's not going to be playing through balls to the strikers or wingers, he's not going to play many passes through the lines. He's going to move further forward into space and play a safe pass to the side, which is often either played too far in front or too far ahead of the player he is aiming at. It's possible that the movement was weak when Kante was on the ball because they didn't expect or believe he was going to play a through ball to them, he was looking for the short simple pass so that is what the attackers were expecting. 

I'm not blaming Kante for this, he's being asked to play a game that doesn't suit his skillset. It was Tuchel's decison to play him ahead of Kovacic, so really, it's Tuchel who I think should take most of the blame today. 

100% agree with this. To add, runs off the ball aren't rewarded (enough) since the pass is either left, right or backwards.

Edited by ChelseaYank
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1 hour ago, Scott Harris said:

It's all here in this link

https://www.premierleague.com/european-qualification-explained

If we finish 4th, we only lose a Champions League spot if the above happens. Liverpool winning it wouldn't be enough on it's own to relegate 4th place to the Europa League. The only way that can happen is if the Europa League is also won by a team that doesn't finish in the top 4.

Wow I stand corrected. That is a massive relief. So basically we need Arsenal and Spurs to not win Europa. Utd will finish in the top 4 so no risk there.

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7 minutes ago, just said:

Obviously, I completely disagree here Scott. I think Tuchel does too. He has recently said Kante's biggest contribution to our offense is the ability to consistently win the ball higher up the pitch. Which, there can be no argument, he does. He also drives forward with the ball at his feet and most often makes a forward pass. Most of which do find their intended target.

The part I have highlighted in your post above, most others on here tell me that is Jorginho's job? Dictate the tempo of our game?

Then Tuchel, like Lampard and Sarri before him, will learn a very hard lesson.

As for Jorginho being the one that controls the tempo of the game, you're right, that is his job, but like with Kante not being able to take advantage of all of the space he had today because his skillset wasn't suited to it, maybe the same can be said about Jorginho's skillset not being suited to having an extra few players pressing him. So like I said, this is on Tuchel. He played two players together with weaknesses that can be exploited by having them both on the field at the same time. 

To get the best out of Joginho, Tuchel needs to keep the opposition from putting an extra man on him, but that will never happen if Kante is the one playing next to him because the opposition don't feel like Kante can hurt them no matter how much space they give him. Well, I guess it could work, but mainly in the games against teams like Liverpool where Kante will be required to stay a bit deeper and be less involved in our attacking game. But for games like today, having Kante on the field doesn't work.

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Just now, The Rising Sun said:

Rudigers  long range effort got me thinking.

why don't we score screamers any more, like lebouf v Leicester   Goldbeck v spurs a d countless others ?

 

 

Because we don't even attempt them, we'd rather pass the ball a hundred times and end up back with the keeper than risk losing possession by shooting.

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3 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Kante did his role because he had someone at the base of the midfield that allowed him to roam and win back some possession further up the pitch but you could put a bet on him being on the bench while Kovacic would have been playing with Jorginho if not for the Atletico game coming up. So any best possible combination you're having Jorginho at the base of the midfield.

If you think that this game means that Jorginho isn't skilled then I guess the same can be said for Mount and Pulisic and both of them were subbed off after not being able to do much in the final third against a team that doesn't care about having clean sheets at all.

What are you on about man? I didn’t say Jorginho isn’t skilled, I said Kante is not skilled to do Jorginho’s role in making things tick and getting passes to the forward line. Jorginho today went awol and we know that he struggles when he is man marked (you’ve have previously acknowledged it). It’s not Jorginho’s fault, it’s the coach’s for not realising it and making the appropriate sub.

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7 minutes ago, dkw said:

Because we don't even attempt them, we'd rather pass the ball a hundred times and end up back with the keeper than risk losing possession by shooting.

True all that endless passing  ends in players snatching at chances surrounded by the opposition .

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I know this will likely be rubbished, but I’m absolutely convinced that we’ve burnt huge sums on disastrous signings. Most of them sure looked ok on paper, but for what ever the reason, here and now, Werner, Pulisic, Havertz and Ziyech are absolutely f**king useless and there’s no remote sign that any of them will ever do anything for us. 
 

It says a lot when there’s very few players in the whole damn squad that the vast majority agree is a great player for us. Jorginho, Kante and Kovacic divide so much opinion that you can only conclude that they’re ok at best. And there’s 100% no consistency in performance level from any of the squad beyond perhaps Mendy.

Against a Leeds side that are ridiculously open and gung ho and concede goals like they’re going out of fashion and we gave their keeper the day off.

Frustrated doesn’t begin to describe today.

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14 minutes ago, Snedger said:

I know this will likely be rubbished, but I’m absolutely convinced that we’ve burnt huge sums on disastrous signings. Most of them sure looked ok on paper, but for what ever the reason, here and now, Werner, Pulisic, Havertz and Ziyech are absolutely f**king useless and there’s no remote sign that any of them will ever do anything for us. 
 

It says a lot when there’s very few players in the whole damn squad that the vast majority agree is a great player for us. Jorginho, Kante and Kovacic divide so much opinion that you can only conclude that they’re ok at best. And there’s 100% no consistency in performance level from any of the squad beyond perhaps Mendy.

Against a Leeds side that are ridiculously open and gung ho and concede goals like they’re going out of fashion and we gave their keeper the day off.

Frustrated doesn’t begin to describe today.

Yes I would have felt there was a better chance of a 5-5 draw than a 0-0, it makes no sense how poor we were against them.

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1 hour ago, RMH said:

What are you on about man? I didn’t say Jorginho isn’t skilled, I said Kante is not skilled to do Jorginho’s role in making things tick and getting passes to the forward line. Jorginho today went awol and we know that he struggles when he is man marked (you’ve have previously acknowledged it). It’s not Jorginho’s fault, it’s the coach’s for not realising it and making the appropriate sub.

Right I misread there a bit, but anyway Kante isn't playing that role, he's more in front just like he played with Matic for example, just that we play a different tactic, we don't really get to have a counter attack in this system so Kante taking back the ball for us never really changes much tactically as Leeds are in the same defensive shape.

If you're referring to my comment prior to the first game vs Atletico - yes I was really worried that Atletico will shut us down but it didn't happen, even in that game we had more than 60% possession just like today vs Leeds.

I always remember how many pundits were saying that the way to stop Chelsea is to mark Jorginho out of the game, this was of course under Sarri and it didn't work as it almost always resulted in us having 1 player free and that we managed to exploit pretty well and we finished top 3 that season.

This game vs Leeds was similar in that sense, Christensen had the space since the backline wasn't pressed but it was Jorginho and in turn Kante had almost always 10 yards in front of him - but we couldn't exploit that advantage today and other people have said in this thread already that Kante wasted a whole lot of space that he was given naturally, some even suggested that it was by design of Leeds, that they were fine with Kante having the ball and he didn't really cause them any trouble.

I saw specifically in the second half Jorginho turning and losing control of the ball by pushing it toward the middle of the pitch only to find that nobody is even there but Kante and so Kante just took over and kept running with it, that's how much little Kante was pressed.

So even if Kante did a great job today it's not really enough, when Jorginho/Mount/Kovacic have a great game we usually do much better in the end.

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Win some, draw some, lose none 🙂

Not the best of performances and we do not create chances for fun, but at least Tuchel has got that defence fixed and frankly I am confident in a top four finish, we look damn solid at the back and this is enough against lesser teams, I know we do not score enough, but as long as we keep as many clean sheets as we do now, the guys up front will eventually get the job done against the likes of Fulham and West Brom.

 

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52 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Right I misread there a bit, but anyway Kante isn't playing that role, he's more in front just like he played with Matic for example, just that we play a different tactic, we don't really get to have a counter attack in this system so Kante taking back the ball for us never really changes much tactically as Leeds are in the same defensive shape.

If you're referring to my comment prior to the first game vs Atletico - yes I was really worried that Atletico will shut us down but it didn't happen, even in that game we had more than 60% possession just like today vs Leeds.

I always remember how many pundits were saying that the way to stop Chelsea is to mark Jorginho out of the game, this was of course under Sarri and it didn't work as it almost always resulted in us having 1 player free and that we managed to exploit pretty well and we finished top 3 that season.

This game vs Leeds was similar in that sense, Christensen had the space since the backline wasn't pressed but it was Jorginho and in turn Kante had almost always 10 yards in front of him - but we couldn't exploit that advantage today and other people have said in this thread already that Kante wasted a whole lot of space that he was given naturally, some even suggested that it was by design of Leeds, that they were fine with Kante having the ball and he didn't really cause them any trouble.

I saw specifically in the second half Jorginho turning and losing control of the ball by pushing it toward the middle of the pitch only to find that nobody is even there but Kante and so Kante just took over and kept running with it, that's how much little Kante was pressed.

So even if Kante did a great job today it's not really enough, when Jorginho/Mount/Kovacic have a great game we usually do much better in the end.

Yeah, Kante wasted much because it’s not his game to have the quality to assist or move the ball forward. He’s done today his job plus he had to be a Fabregas? In the meantime Jorginho absolutely missing from the game. But Kante is the guilty midfielder today? Come off it. Kante did his job, it was Jorginho who could not do anything because he’s rubbish when man marked and he hasn’t got the ability to loose his man when tightly marked. Tuchel got it wrong, he should have brought on Kova or Gilmour (oh, wait!) for Jorgi instead of being happy with te draw at f**king Leeds and think to save Kova for Atlético. I’m not saying Jorginho is bad, he’s just not suited for the tactics played by Leeds today. Bielsa got one over Tuchel when we should have got the three points back to the Bridge.

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22 minutes ago, PloKoon13 said:

I think we lost control in the last quarter - could have done with Jorginho on the pitch to put his foot on the ball.

Behave yourself there Plokkers...

For all the hyperventilating from some in here, I thought we played quite well, particularly in a new system with a number of players who have been on the periphery. We created chances but didn't really have the ruthlessness to take them.

Leeds were clever to block out Jorginho, but I don't think that actually made much difference. We had no issues building up from the back and it's not really his job to do more than that. I thought Kante and Mendy and Dave all played well. 

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7 hours ago, DidierDrogbalala said:

Its hard to find a midfielder who has it all, Jorginho is pretty much playing the Fabregas role under Conte but we realize that its really not the same quality of players (Fab could also score goals). Thats why i dont understand the blame on Kanté, its Jorginho's role to distribute the ball and make passes behind the defence, Kanté makes simple passes to the fowards or the full backs, does he miss some ? Of course, but its never been Kanté Forté thats simply not his game. The blame should go the fowards not making themself available for  a pass. You don't hear City fans blaming Rodri of Fernandinho not creating chances, you dont hear United fans blaming Mctomimnay or Fred  not creating chances or Leicester fans blaming Ndidi not creating chances or Liverpool fans blaming Fabinho or Henderson not creating chances because its not their role !

Jorginho is a simple holder, Fabregas is more of a dpl who roam everywhere to create chances. 

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Bad result, for the first time Tuchel got his rotation wrong, and we looked vulnerable at both ends of the field. I could understand the logic behind the change, we got a big mid week game coming up, may also tried to include the extra attacking minded players in the team to create more chances. Unfortunately it back fired, the attacking midfielders seems to get into each other's way, and no natural striker to finish off the chances, no flying wing backs to add the width, and  the defence looked shaky without the 3 in the back. Leeds is pretty shaky at the back, all we really had to do was keep working them over, instead of forcing the issue the change of system and personnel. It's no surprise this is one the few games Mount looked a non threat, because we got 4 attacking midfielders cram into the high end of the field. Ziyech just not the same without a James helping him out, and Pullisic roamed around all over the field, but never had the confidence to put the final chance away. Havetz's movement was ok, finishing was as ordinary as the other strikers, 2 games in 5 days as a false 9 or real 9 is pushing it.

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