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Financial Fair Play is dead


Zaphod2319
Eton Blue at the Chelsea Megastore

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In unrelated news Barcelona and Real Madrid have huge debts and squads that need rebuilding, I'm sure that's just a coincidence though....

Also its amusing to see the Milan teams were some of the clubs pushing for FFP initially, and now Juventus have won the last 9 Italian titles they want rid of it ?

Edited by dkw
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On this note I have a question that I've been trying to figure out.  Why does Dortmund sell off all of it's best talent?  

I've only started following European club football recently and it seems like Dortmund seems to land a bunch of super talented kids and then sells them off for big money.  

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1 hour ago, dkw said:

In unrelated news Barcelona and Real Madrid have huge debts and squads that need rebuilding, I'm sure that's just a coincidence though....

Also its amusing to see the Milan teams were some of the clubs pushing for FFP initially, and now Juventus have won the last 9 Italian titles they want rid of it ?

FFP was bought in to keep the likes of Barcelona and Real Madrid at the top forever, now that that has backfired and both teams have severe debts that would likely have seen them banned from future Champions League campaigns, they have decided to scrap FFP..............hmm, very interesting timing from UEFA.

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2 minutes ago, Valpo said:

On this note I have a question that I've been trying to figure out.  Why does Dortmund sell off all of it's best talent?  

I've only started following European club football recently and it seems like Dortmund seems to land a bunch of super talented kids and then sells them off for big money.  

It is a model that benefits both the club and the players. Dortmund gets some of the best young talent because they will play them. The players know they will be sold to a big club for a big contract and Dortmund gets a big fee. As long as everyone is happy and the fans are getting a good team on the pitch, lots of money to be made for club and players. Tuchel wanted to keep talent and take a run at being a title contender every year. That and his anger about how the bus bombing was handled put an end to his time there.

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37 minutes ago, Valpo said:

On this note I have a question that I've been trying to figure out.  Why does Dortmund sell off all of it's best talent?  

I've only started following European club football recently and it seems like Dortmund seems to land a bunch of super talented kids and then sells them off for big money.  

Reminds me of Southampton or at least used to.

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42 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

FFP was bought in to keep the likes of Barcelona and Real Madrid at the top forever, now that that has backfired and both teams have severe debts that would likely have seen them banned from future Champions League campaigns, they have decided to scrap FFP..............hmm, very interesting timing from UEFA.

Nah mate, it's definitely just a coincidence, no way would rules be manipulated to suit certain clubs, surely.

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3 hours ago, Zaphod2319 said:

It is a model that benefits both the club and the players. Dortmund gets some of the best young talent because they will play them. The players know they will be sold to a big club for a big contract and Dortmund gets a big fee. As long as everyone is happy and the fans are getting a good team on the pitch, lots of money to be made for club and players. Tuchel wanted to keep talent and take a run at being a title contender every year. That and his anger about how the bus bombing was handled put an end to his time there.

So Dortmund doesn't really try to win the title, just rack up money from transfer fees and put a good enough team together to avoid relegation.  

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3 hours ago, Valpo said:

On this note I have a question that I've been trying to figure out.  Why does Dortmund sell off all of it's best talent?  

I've only started following European club football recently and it seems like Dortmund seems to land a bunch of super talented kids and then sells them off for big money.  

Ajax are exactly the same, actually they sell all their very best players for huge returns, its their MO

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3 minutes ago, Ballack & Blu said:

Ajax are exactly the same, actually they sell all their very best players for huge returns, its their MO

Weird. . . so it seems like these clubs exist just to develop players but not to pursue titles.  

I'd hate to be a fan of those clubs. 

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13 hours ago, Strider6003 said:

Reminds me of Southampton or at least used to.

It is so much harder to do what Dortmund does in Germany and do it in England. 

There will be a time when you lost your stars and you simply can't replace them, in Germany you probably will end up as mid table team, in EPL you will be relegated

 

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12 hours ago, Valpo said:

Weird. . . so it seems like these clubs exist just to develop players but not to pursue titles.  

I'd hate to be a fan of those clubs. 

That's not what's happening though. It's easy to draw a line-up called "what the line-up of Whatever FC would look like today if they had held on to their star players (haha, silly Whatever FC)", but that's not how the business works. Dortmund are not choosing to stagnate for money's sake, it's just incredibly difficult to move beyond their current state.

Every once in a while we witness European standout seasons, we saw Dortmund in 2012/13, Monaco in 2016/17, Ajax in 2018/19. At the end of these seasons, did the world consider these teams among the best two / four teams in Europe? No, and neither did their star players. They think "Jesus Christ Real Madrid just called me and offered me three times my current salary. I mean last season was great but how likely is it to repeat itself." The clubs are forced to sell and reinvest, because they can't hold on to the players and because gambling with an asset that's currently worth 1XXm is a risk they might come to regret later. Actually, the fact Dortmund held on to Sancho last summer is a sign of growing authority.

Haaland was a clever deal for Dortmund not only financially. He's helping the team (including the players that are gonna stay beyond next summer) to gain experiences in the CL quarter finals and raising the club's profile in the public impression. Maybe Dortmund needs to see three more Haalands come and go and then the fourth one will stay.

The bottom line is it's almost impossible to join the group of Europe's elite suddenly and sustainably (particularly without a rich owner). Sportive success is volatile but status is a massive drag, and status will always impact sportive success. The only way to properly get there is by taking two steps forward, one step back. Are Dortmund on that path? I'm not sure. I find their proportion of defensive stars worryingly low. I also think for a club with this objective it would be favourable to achieve stability in the managerial position. In any case they have massive potential, they simply need to keep playing their cards well.

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13 hours ago, Valpo said:

Weird. . . so it seems like these clubs exist just to develop players but not to pursue titles.  

I'd hate to be a fan of those clubs. 

The Dutch Eredivisie is such a weak league, even having sold their best players Ajax still have a shot at the title every season. 

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1 hour ago, Valerie said:

The Dutch Eredivisie is such a weak league, even having sold their best players Ajax still have a shot at the title every season. 

Yet still they produce world beaters, their culture for learning the game is unsurpassed

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2 hours ago, Valerie said:

The Dutch Eredivisie is such a weak league, even having sold their best players Ajax still have a shot at the title every season. 

Same with Porto, for quite a few years they were basically bringing in players from South America to sell on knowing they could continually change the squad and still win trophies. The money they have made is incredible.

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7 hours ago, Luiz4Chelsea said:

That's not what's happening though. It's easy to draw a line-up called "what the line-up of Whatever FC would look like today if they had held on to their star players (haha, silly Whatever FC)", but that's not how the business works. Dortmund are not choosing to stagnate for money's sake, it's just incredibly difficult to move beyond their current state.

Every once in a while we witness European standout seasons, we saw Dortmund in 2012/13, Monaco in 2016/17, Ajax in 2018/19. At the end of these seasons, did the world consider these teams among the best two / four teams in Europe? No, and neither did their star players. They think "Jesus Christ Real Madrid just called me and offered me three times my current salary. I mean last season was great but how likely is it to repeat itself." The clubs are forced to sell and reinvest, because they can't hold on to the players and because gambling with an asset that's currently worth 1XXm is a risk they might come to regret later. Actually, the fact Dortmund held on to Sancho last summer is a sign of growing authority.

Haaland was a clever deal for Dortmund not only financially. He's helping the team (including the players that are gonna stay beyond next summer) to gain experiences in the CL quarter finals and raising the club's profile in the public impression. Maybe Dortmund needs to see three more Haalands come and go and then the fourth one will stay.

The bottom line is it's almost impossible to join the group of Europe's elite suddenly and sustainably (particularly without a rich owner). Sportive success is volatile but status is a massive drag, and status will always impact sportive success. The only way to properly get there is by taking two steps forward, one step back. Are Dortmund on that path? I'm not sure. I find their proportion of defensive stars worryingly low. I also think for a club with this objective it would be favourable to achieve stability in the managerial position. In any case they have massive potential, they simply need to keep playing their cards well.

So Dortmund couldn't afford to extend Haaland when his contract is up? 

I was under the impression that Dortmund was a big club.  

Meh this is the aspect I hate about European football.  Only a handful of teams have the financial resources to have any kind of a chance.   Bottom of the table in the EPL pays about 20M pounds in salary a year for their entire team.  Manchester U pays about the same amount to one player.  

Edited by Valpo
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