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Chelsea v Man City (FA Cup Semi-Final) Sat 17th Apr 2021 17:30 GMT


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1 hour ago, mojo said:

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He was trying to avoid stamping on Masons face according to the half time pundits, they didn't even mention the blatant foul on the same player just a little while after.  To really add insult to injury Reece James later gets the first yellow of the game for a perfectly fair tackle on the Fernandinho  thug who has already escaped 2 and a probable straight red.

The standard of refereeing in this country is shockingly bad.

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Good win but it means nothing without a result at Brighton. Great to see us mote than match a slightly subpar city but I hope Jorginho and Kante have enough left in the tank. Ziyech’ s best game in a Chelsea shirt for mine. And Chilwell really settling in now. 

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1 hour ago, just said:

Yep wouldn't argue with that BB. A lot of parallels with Mikel.

There was an example picked up in the 2nd half match commentary of Werner making a run and Jorginho not attempting the pass. It is how he plays and many people are happy with that, safe, keeps possession, makes the stats look great. Fair enough. But for me I see it as a big limitation and I think he could be a completely different player if he was more adventurous, more creative, tried to prompt the transition, change the tempo, by attempting more early, longer balls. As I said, he is sitting deep and can see the whole pitch in front of him, he can see the space. Especially when we have a forward with Werner's pace.

        I honestly can't believe how Jorginho can be criticized after todays performance. I guess beauty is really in the eye of the beholder. Jorginho totally dominated the midfield with his possesion and even added some extra bite with his tackles and ball recoveries. It is not his job to send hollywood passes to the striker. He as a job for the team and does it to perfection. he is similar to prime Sergio Busquets, now tell me how many times Busquets sent through balls to the Barca strikers. His job was to recycle the ball and get it Xavi , Inesta and Messi to do damage.  There is a reason why Pep wanted Jorginho and that is because he is the best defensive midfielder in a possesion based system.  If Jorginho was in Mancity he would be hailed as the GUORDIOLA/busquets of this generation

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2 hours ago, just said:

Gol, I don't want to appear churlish after such a great result but Dave, Rudiger, James and Chilwel all hit more long, forward balls than Jorginho today!

Why can he not be more adventurous with his passing?  I stress again, passing is what defines him as a player. Why can't he turn defending into attack with a sweep of his foot? Is it lack of ability?  Lack of vision? Lack of self-belief? It is why there will always a question mark against him, his passing is too one dimensional. It is not expansive enough.

The same people regularly jump on Kante when he mis-places a pass or two and completely miss the fact that passing is not his forte, it is not what defines him as player. Winning the ball, closing down opponents and carrying the ball at pace to transition defence to attack is his forte and he rarely fails. In fact he is still one of the best there is at those skills.

How many times have i bought this exact Question up, its why we need 'Grealish' or name me someone else who is as creative, Cesc, or Pirlo did it as second nature, its not instinctive in Jorgi, He's more Xavi than Iniesta,  i was screaming at the telly to keep switching it wide, Chilwell through Werner was creating acres of space down the left, and even Keown, kept commenting on Werner, hanging off the last defender and his clever movement

 

2 hours ago, ZouMan said:

He was exceptional today.. Ol Fernandinho was chasing shadows this evening, it was like an old Bull trying to corner a young Male lion....A Chelsea lion

Edited by Ballack & Blu
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This was no smash and grab. We deserved to win. 

Bizarre that City rotated so much when they were apparently going for a quadruple. But they didn't really threaten at all. Dave was superb at the back and we held them nicely. KdB being a sook and going off helped.

On balance we probably should have won by more. Ziyech was a bit weak with that second finish and Chilwell should have worked the keeper too. 

Best game that Ziyech has played with us, Werner was great and Mount was Mount. It is truly something special to watch a young player come of age. It's something we haven't seen in at least 15 years as Chelsea fans. Says a lot in my view that Fernandinho was targeting him for rough treatment. It's a compliment in my view.

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13 minutes ago, Ballack & Blu said:

How many times have i bought this exact Question up, its why we need 'Grealish' or name me someone else who is as creative, Cesc, or Pirlo did it as second nature, its not instinctive in Jorgi, He's more Xavi than Iniesta,  i was screaming at the telly to keep switching it wide, Chilwell through Werner was creating acres of space down the left, and even Keown, kept commenting on Werner, hanging off the last defender and his clever movement

He was exceptional today.. Ol Fernandinho was chasing shadows this evening, it was like an old Bull trying to corner a young Male lion....A Chelsea lion

On the midfield part. I think we're one midfield general and one top striker away from being title contenders. Someone who can do the controlling the Jorginho and Kante are good at but can also take the game on as needed and support Mount to find those passes. 

On the Mount bit. See my post above. He is a threat now. Teams are actively trying to stop him, Fernandinho treading on his face is him trying to find a way to put him off his game, such is his influence for us atm. Great to watch. He's not going to be a Lingard who stays for a while and is then shipped out for a big foreign signing. He's the real deal.

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1 minute ago, The Don Antonio said:

        I honestly can't believe how Jorginho can be criticized after todays performance. I guess beauty is really in the eye of the beholder. Jorginho totally dominated the midfield with his possesion and even added some extra bite with his tackles and ball recoveries. It is not his job to send hollywood passes to the striker. He as a job for the team and does it to perfection. he is similar to prime Sergio Busquets, now tell me how many times Busquets sent through balls to the Barca strikers. His job was to recycle the ball and get it Xavi , Inesta and Messi to do damage.  There is a reason why Pep wanted Jorginho and that is because he is the best defensive midfielder in a possesion based system.  If Jorginho was in Mancity he would be hailed as the GUORDIOLA/busquets of this generation

Lets be clear, Jorginho AND Kante dominated the midfield.

But yes Don, agreed, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some people voiced the opinion that Kante was sloppy with his passing at times, I felt Jorginho was at times too safe and conservative with his passing when options were available in front of him, particularly some of the movement from Werner. Personally I don't for a moment believe his job is not make an attempt at those passes when the opportunity is there. My frustration is understanding why he often doesn't even try.

 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, The Don Antonio said:

        I honestly can't believe how Jorginho can be criticized after todays performance. I guess beauty is really in the eye of the beholder. Jorginho totally dominated the midfield with his possesion and even added some extra bite with his tackles and ball recoveries. It is not his job to send hollywood passes to the striker. He as a job for the team and does it to perfection. he is similar to prime Sergio Busquets, now tell me how many times Busquets sent through balls to the Barca strikers. His job was to recycle the ball and get it Xavi , Inesta and Messi to do damage.  There is a reason why Pep wanted Jorginho and that is because he is the best defensive midfielder in a possesion based system.  If Jorginho was in Mancity he would be hailed as the GUORDIOLA/busquets of this generation

I honestly think that Pep was genuinely disappointed once it was clear that Jorginho isn't signing for him but he did sign Rodri the very next summer and he's a good player but imagine if we steal Haaland from him, that would be a huge statement... "Despite winning the league Pep can't get his player because there is a team called Chelsea." 

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Just now, just said:

Lets be clear, Jorginho AND Kante dominated the midfield.

But yes Don, agreed, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some people voiced the opinion that Kante was sloppy with his passing at times, I felt Jorginho was at times too safe and conservative with his passing when options were available in front of him, particularly some of the movement from Werner. Personally I don't for a moment believe his job is not make an attempt at those passes when the opportunity is there. My frustration is understanding why he often doesn't even try.

Don't know why you do this to yourself every matchday just! 

I think Jorginho does play those passes on occasion, but they are usually premeditated first time passes into the right channel based on a trigger. He is less likely to play them based on what he sees in front of him. In the end he does well in a particular role but is limited outside of that role. At the moment he is playing a role in the system and that is okay, but we'll need to evolve beyond that at some stage.

As I said I think likely the midfield general who can play the controlling role that Jorginho does, but critically take the game on when needed is one of the things (along with a top striker) that can make us contenders again. 

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9 minutes ago, just said:

Lets be clear, Jorginho AND Kante dominated the midfield.

But yes Don, agreed, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some people voiced the opinion that Kante was sloppy with his passing at times, I felt Jorginho was at times too safe and conservative with his passing when options were available in front of him, particularly some of the movement from Werner. Personally I don't for a moment believe his job is not make an attempt at those passes when the opportunity is there. My frustration is understanding why he often doesn't even try.

 

 

 

      The fact is he is instructed to measure the risk/ reward of his passes  hence the safe passes that help us keep possesion which is very crucial against the top sides. To you he should just pass the difficult pass and send werner through but if that pass is intercepted it is a very easy counter attack which will lead to a goal. Especially since it is our DM making the pass and wont be in position to protect the defence. The passes you are talking about should be made by Kante and Mount since they are ahead of him and to his credit Mount made the pass for Ziyechs goal.

      I do agree though that i would love to see jorginho take more risks when we play lower teams that just park the bus but to me his performance today against the best team in the prem was a 10 over 10.

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19 minutes ago, The Don Antonio said:

      The fact is he is instructed to measure the risk/ reward of his passes  hence the safe passes that help us keep possesion which is very crucial against the top sides. To you he should just pass the difficult pass and send werner through but if that pass is intercepted it is a very easy counter attack which will lead to a goal. Especially since it is our DM making the pass and wont be in position to protect the defence. The passes you are talking about should be made by Kante and Mount since they are ahead of him and to his credit Mount made the pass for Ziyechs goal.

      I do agree though that i would love to see jorginho take more risks when we play lower teams that just park the bus but to me his performance today against the best team in the prem was a 10 over 10.

To counter that argument, we play expansive football to a degree, but nearly all our midfield like to rotate the possession backwards and sideways, if a pro plays the pass in the sort of area it should go, and a bdefender intercepts isn't that football, not the necessary stray ball leads to an offensive counter attack, Either Manutd when they sort of dominated, just kept attacking, very much like Liverpool last year, you know from the match day thread, most of us hate Pep/Tuchel possession for possessions sake football, we have the players to be far more ruthless..

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41 minutes ago, Spiller86 said:

 

As I said I think likely the midfield general who can play the controlling role that Jorginho does, but critically take the game on when needed is one of the things (along with a top striker) that can make us contenders again. 

That'll be Billy then.

Wouldn't be Jorginho's biggest fan but likening him to Mikel seems gratuitously insulting.

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26 minutes ago, Ballack & Blu said:

To counter that argument, we play expansive football to a degree, but nearly all our midfield like to rotate the possession backwards and sideways, if a pro plays the pass in the sort of area it should go, and a bdefender intercepts isn't that football, not the necessary stray ball leads to an offensive counter attack, Either Manutd when they sort of dominated, just kept attacking, very much like Liverpool last year, you know from the match day thread, most of us hate Pep/Tuchel possession for possessions sake football, we have the players to be far more ruthless..

     I agree with the fact that a pro should be able to take a risky pass. I just don't think that responsibility falls on the Defensive midfielder when there are others ahead of him to make that pass. If Mount makes that pass and it gets intercepted he has Jorginho and kante to bail him  , If jorginho fails the opponent has a free go at our defence. 

     I dont agree with your statement that we have the players to play like liverpool of last season or Man u in their prime, if we did Lampard wouldn't have been fired because he was obviously going for that kind of football. We dont have fowards like Mane and Salah who can give you 20 goals a season 

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Think the press are being rather unfair on Pep haivng a go at him for his team selection.

Ok given the form they are in it was good seeing IG and Foden left out but it was a strong team overall and they do have that much strength in depth.

We just played really well and they were not at the best. How about just give us credit for that?

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Mature performance, we were even afford to give Kepa a game and he didn't have to make a real save. The defence is backing to the best after slipping some goals in lately, midfield keeping and moving the ball well, and attackers did their thing without being exceptional. Like countless people said, if only we have a scoring striker, who knows where we'd be right now, or next season.

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52 minutes ago, The Don Antonio said:

     I agree with the fact that a pro should be able to take a risky pass. I just don't think that responsibility falls on the Defensive midfielder when there are others ahead of him to make that pass. If Mount makes that pass and it gets intercepted he has Jorginho and kante to bail him  , If jorginho fails the opponent has a free go at our defence. 

     I dont agree with your statement that we have the players to play like liverpool of last season or Man u in their prime, if we did Lampard wouldn't have been fired because he was obviously going for that kind of football. We dont have fowards like Mane and Salah who can give you 20 goals a season 

Havertz is as good as Firminho, Werner on paper is as prolific as Salah, lol, and Tammy could score the same as Mane, i agree they don't, if Jorginho and mount are a shoe in, and we agree we need the playmaker, Kante and Havertz are surplus, Maybe Ziyech can be that player

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3 hours ago, Liam said:

That'll be Billy then.

Wouldn't be Jorginho's biggest fan but likening him to Mikel seems gratuitously insulting.

I'd love it to be Billy. Question will always be physical for him. 

Re: Mikel I think he was better than we remember. A weaker player in the best team in our history. Not convinced many (perhaps only Kante) of this lot make it into those teams. 

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From Thomas Tuchel:

“It feels fantastic because we were playing the best team in Europe right now and we managed to close the gap for 90 minutes. We played a very strong first 35 minutes and in the second half another strong half an hour. 

“At the end of each half we had to suffer and we also needed a bit of luck but it was a deserved win. I am so proud because it is so hard against City, you have to be on your top level. It was a quality performance."

Only an Uber-twat like Jermaine Jenas could argue with that.

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Although he went off slightly earlier, I still give my MOTM to Mount. He was fantastic once again. Constantly got fouled, however he always looked to make things happen and caused Fernandinho nightmares. His awareness is so good and he is always one step ahead. Love the way he receives the ball and just sharply turns away from an opposing player and leaves them in no man's land. Chilwell's performances getting a lot stronger again too. Had a fantastic game also as did rest of team.

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