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Is there something wrong with this club's scouting and recruitment?


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Or are we just unlucky? 

We haven't had a genuine game changer since Hazard. I mean you could add Costa in there too, but he was only good for one season and not consistent. Our recruitment over the last 6/7 seasons has been shaky to say the least. 

The players we've bought who have been a let down so far are as follows: 

Batshuayi

Morata

Bakayoko

Baba Rahman

Zappacosta

Drinkwater

Emerson

Kepa 

Cuadrado 

Barkley

Ziyech 

Werner 

Havertz

Pulisic

Chilwell 

I might be a little harsh on the newer players, but so far we have no genuine game changers who can take the game by the scruff of the neck from the new signings. I've nothing to suggest they can or will do so. Is it just poor recruitment or poor luck that we keep signing let downs? 

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Pulisic has been good, just injury prone. Plus we were comparing him to Hazard straight away , which was unfair. For his age, I think he's shown a lot of promise and has put in some quality performances.

Chilwell I don't think deserves to be in this list either. He's not Ashley Cole and there's definite room for improvement, but he's shown plenty.

Havertz I think will eventually come good, though for the money, he's defintiely not lived up tpo expectations recently.

 

All the rest are pretty bad though.

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Posted (edited)

I think the biggest issue is our long-term vision. We can't seem to make our mind up what kind of team we want to be. Our last 4 managers have been so different from each other that we have ended up with a mix of players not really suited to any of them.

Edited by Scott Harris
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1 hour ago, enigma said:

Or are we just unlucky? 

We haven't had a genuine game changer since Hazard. I mean you could add Costa in there too, but he was only good for one season and not consistent. Our recruitment over the last 6/7 seasons has been shaky to say the least. 

The players we've bought who have been a let down so far are as follows: 

Batshuayi

Morata

Bakayoko

Baba Rahman

Zappacosta

Drinkwater

Emerson

Kepa 

Cuadrado 

Barkley

Ziyech 

Werner 

Havertz

Pulisic

Chilwell 

I might be a little harsh on the newer players, but so far we have no genuine game changers who can take the game by the scruff of the neck from the new signings. I've nothing to suggest they can or will do so. Is it just poor recruitment or poor luck that we keep signing let downs? 

How could you put Pulisic, and chilwell on the list? Pulisic was an absolute gamechanger for us before he got hurt. His problems have been injuries.  Chilwell has been very very good for a vast majority of his time here. 

Havertz probably came a year or two early.  I cant wait to see what type of player he is in 3 years. The talent is there. He will be so good. 

The Werner signing is the puzzling one.  They had to know his limitations as a player. Not a great first touch, not a good dribbler in tight spaces.  He was known as a player who got alot of great chances because of his pace but missed plenty.  I just don't think he's good enough to build your team around him...hes not a Lewandowski, or Kane world class player and he never will be. 

 

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13 minutes ago, Browerkid said:

How could you put Pulisic, and chilwell on the list? Pulisic was an absolute gamechanger for us before he got hurt. His problems have been injuries.  Chilwell has been very very good for a vast majority of his time here. 

Havertz probably came a year or two early.  I cant wait to see what type of player he is in 3 years. The talent is there. He will be so good. 

The Werner signing is the puzzling one.  They had to know his limitations as a player. Not a great first touch, not a good dribbler in tight spaces.  He was known as a player who got alot of great chances because of his pace but missed plenty.  I just don't think he's good enough to build your team around him...hes not a Lewandowski, or Kane world class player and he never will be. 

 

Also a little harsh to include Barkley on the list. He was purchased at a decent price (15m I think) and has contributed some important goals from time to time. I still think he is a good squad option and we could have used him on numerous occasions this season.

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20 minutes ago, forbzy said:

Also a little harsh to include Barkley on the list. He was purchased at a decent price (15m I think) and has contributed some important goals from time to time. I still think he is a good squad option and we could have used him on numerous occasions this season.

I think Barkley wants to be a starter.

Think Villa will buy him for less than £15m, IMO.

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3 minutes ago, Strider6003 said:

I think Barkley wants to be a starter.

Think Villa will buy him for less than £15m, IMO.

Agree he wants to be a starter and he seems pretty happy at Villa. Not sure where he is in his contract but when you look at prices for other English players, we really ought to get more than that.

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1 hour ago, Browerkid said:

How could you put Pulisic, and chilwell on the list? Pulisic was an absolute gamechanger for us before he got hurt. His problems have been injuries.  Chilwell has been very very good for a vast majority of his time here. 

Havertz probably came a year or two early.  I cant wait to see what type of player he is in 3 years. The talent is there. He will be so good. 

The Werner signing is the puzzling one.  They had to know his limitations as a player. Not a great first touch, not a good dribbler in tight spaces.  He was known as a player who got alot of great chances because of his pace but missed plenty.  I just don't think he's good enough to build your team around him...hes not a Lewandowski, or Kane world class player and he never will be. 

 

Yeah I put him on there mainly because he has been very injury prone. Chilwell has done ok, but for the money we paid I would expect more. We apparently paid closer to £70m for him. 

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1 hour ago, forbzy said:

Agree he wants to be a starter and he seems pretty happy at Villa. Not sure where he is in his contract but when you look at prices for other English players, we really ought to get more than that.

I agree yet market conditions.........

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I actually think the club's recruitment has improved since the days of signing danny drinkwater. Modern day footballer recruitment is very much based on data science and no one would have expected ziyech and werner to have the seasons they did based on their stats from last season. If we didn't sign them I'm sure one of our League or European rivals would have signed them. I also think there's still time for them to come good if we give them another season. 

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9 hours ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

I actually think the club's recruitment has improved since the days of signing danny drinkwater. Modern day footballer recruitment is very much based on data science and no one would have expected ziyech and werner to have the seasons they did based on their stats from last season. If we didn't sign them I'm sure one of our League or European rivals would have signed them. I also think there's still time for them to come good if we give them another season. 

I disagree though. Drinkwater was signed for depth and to meet British quota. You simply can't compare his signing to Werner and ziyech. 

 

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IMO in general it comes down to few reasons :

1. 2nd choice

Morata 

2. What the hell is our plan

Werner, Havertz, Ziyech, Pulisic 

3. Make sense but not good enough 

Jorgi (doesn't worth 70m) n Bakayoko 

4. Desperation

Kepa

 

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Most of the name are having a very positive name in Europe. 

Batshuayi was having a good season in League 1, same as Bakayoko who had a great season with Monaco. 

Ziyech, Werner and Havertz can still work out, after one season in PL they need to learn more. 

Chilwell and Pulisic are actually good signings, they're not game changers or reaching Hazard's level, but they're good to our squad and important players.

Drinkwater, Kepa, Zappacosta are panic buys and mistakes. Baba Rahman, Cuadrado, Morata, Emerson and Barkley are just not good signings. 

 

I believe we could do better with this amount of money but I'm happy to have Havertz, Werner, Chilwell, Pulisic and Ziyech in current squad. Other players will be gone by the end of the season. 

We need an improvement in our recruitment that's for sure, I'd say half we got right and half we got it wrong. 

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Posted (edited)

I have been very critical of our recruitment as of late. 

Last summer was a step in the right direction, however. Silva, Mendy and Chilwell have been good to varying extents. Havertz will turn out to be a good player with a more settled season. He has the footballing intelligence and technical ability to excel. He played well up until that Arsenal game where the whole team sucked. His performances vs Real Madrid and the not so renowned Fulham have shown enough for me to believe he has it in him. 

Unfortunately I cant say the same thing about Werner. Terrible technically and very 1 dimensional. People praise him for his assists and runs but we've been winning games by 1 goal since Tuchel has arrived 95% of the time. When things dont go his way like in the cup final we end up on the wrong side of these fine margins. I am sure we can win games more comfortably by 3 or 4 goals with someone more competent up top. Winning 1-0 on daily basis is unrealistic in the long term and we've seen that with Arsenal and Leicester that we struggle to overturn deficits of just 1 or 2 goals. 

Not a fan of Ziyech at all. This seemed like an opportunistic buy rather than a thought out investment. 

The Lacroix dude we are being linked with now from a reliable source seems like another good deal. With Zouma leaving probably and Silva not being able to play twice a week the whole season, we need a new CB comfortable playing in a 4 man defence which is what Tuchel will likely use next season. A striker and and a winger is needed with this formation with injury prone Pulisic and CHO being somewhat underwhelming. Lets see if the club is smart this summer we need to build on with Tuchel. 

Edited by Valhalla
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Some of these on the list i dont blame the club for, and also some of these signings could be manager choices so again hard to blame the club. I dont blame the club for buying players like Werner, Morata mainly because there isn't loads of top strikers to buy. 

Its the signings that we shouldn't have bought in the first place i get annoyed with, the Baba Rahman, Drinkwater, Zappacosta, Bakayako those types.

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Werner 

Havertz

Pulisic

Chilwell 

These last 4 players are a result of good scouting if you ask me. Some need more time but these players have shown great ability before they came here now they need some help to get better and a full pre-season with Tuchel.

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On 18/05/2021 at 20:36, enigma said:

Or are we just unlucky? 

We haven't had a genuine game changer since Hazard. I mean you could add Costa in there too, but he was only good for one season and not consistent. Our recruitment over the last 6/7 seasons has been shaky to say the least. 

The players we've bought who have been a let down so far are as follows: 

Batshuayi

Morata

Bakayoko

Baba Rahman

Zappacosta

Drinkwater

Emerson

Kepa 

Cuadrado 

Barkley

Ziyech 

Werner 

Havertz

Pulisic

Chilwell 

I might be a little harsh on the newer players, but so far we have no genuine game changers who can take the game by the scruff of the neck from the new signings. I've nothing to suggest they can or will do so. Is it just poor recruitment or poor luck that we keep signing let downs? 

Well, to truly understand whether this is out of the ordinary, you will need context. So a comparison with other (similar) clubs is essential. And you need to decide whether you want to discuss "game changers" or just good signings. If game changers, then many defenders are simply unlikely to be that despite being excellent footballers.

Out of all the signings we've made over the past few years (post-Costa and Fabregas), it's true that we haven't had many "game changers". 

Kante

Giroud

Pulisic

Alonso?

Mendy?

Many of those you've mentioned were either bought to add squad depth or have the potential to be "game changers" like Havertz and Werner.

Now compare other similar teams.

 

Manchester United

Cavani

Bruno Fernandes

(That is it, others are home grown)

 

Manchester City (looking at recent years, not including De Bruyne and Sterling)

Mahrez

Gundogan

Ederson

Diaz?

 

Liverpool

Van Dijk

Salah

Mane

Robertson?

 

Arsenal

No one

 

Tottenham

No one

 

And then with slightly stricter criteria

Barcelona

No one

 

Real Madrid

Courtois

 

Every club buys a lot of duds, we are no expections there.

Considering the number of game changers City and Liverpool have bought (I probably missed a few), it's no surprise that they have done so well in the recent past. But note that many of these game changers took time to start playing to their potential.

With our recruitment last season + what we may expect this summer, we are where these clubs were a few years back. We should be having this conversation a couple of years from now.

And if the discussion is to be about the proportion of duds bought, maybe we should list out all the duds bought by other teams to pad their squads. I'm sure our list of Bakayokos and Drinkwaters isn't anything exceptional.

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The recruitment have been decent. Some turned out fine and others were found to be limited (aka duds). Some signings will take longer to blossom.

Anyone having problems with the recruitment are just sticking to a certain agenda with hindsight.

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I’d add Jorginho and Kovacic to your list. 

I think that apart from a lot of very dodgy scouting, the other things that seem apparent are that we not the attraction we were earlier in the Roman era and we’ve not shown the same ambition as those earlier times. We’ve tried doing it on the cheap at times and last summer I have a suspicion that we signed a couple of young players we knew weren’t ready, but that despite actually spending bigger, we hoped to ultimately make a good profit on them. It’s business after all.

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