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So who do you think is realistic


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18 minutes ago, thebluekid said:

He's shown that at previous clubs. He is not the kind of manager who will sit around and work for a club that don't back him. 

I do believe that the biggest issue at previous clubs have been players being sold against his will. And he's on record saying he wants to keep the "good mood" around the club wheter we do sign players this summer or not. So I am not terribly worried about that.

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1 hour ago, coco said:

He's the kind of manager that does what he can, with what he's got, and he revels in it, as this season has shown.

I disagree. He left when presented with the chance to do so following countless seasons of teams selling his best players and not backing him where he wanted to be backed. He had to have that attitude with us this season, he came in January when we were in a sh*tshow. Skip forward to next summer, if he isn't backed this year (we're absolutely crying out for a number 9) and we fail on our targets, the unrest and the ilk will begin. Just my two cents.

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I'm absolutely baffled by our transfer tactics TBH.

I know the aim is to balance the books and stay within the FFF limits, that's fair enough, but I don't understand why we seem to have a policy of selling players before we can buy players.

I'm pretty sure FFF don't look at your football clubs accounts during the middle of any transfer window.

Surely we can do it the other way round and balance the books by the end of the transfer window?

Buying our targets first and then selling other players after would make much more sense to me and has more benefits compared to our current policy.

 

Some of the positives of buying first sell afterwards IMO:

- we could actually get in players in time for the start of the season rather than them either being rushed in for their debuts or not even starting until after the first international break.

- we'd probably even get better deals because if you sell first then the whole world knows you're desperate to replace and bump their prices up accordingly.

- probably puts less pressure on the individual player if you can conclude the deal quickly rather than them not knowing if they are moving clubs or not and it dragging on for the whole window

- I would also imagine the player would also appreciate any extra time in getting somewhere new to live or moving their family to a new location before the season kicks off.

- any transfer targets we go after are more likely to be successful - I'd imagine the selling clubs don't like selling at the last minute with no time to get in a decent replacement

- some of our most recent successful seasons is when we have got our targets in early and had them from the start of the season (Fabregas & Costa transfers spring to mind)

- our negotiations will be less dependent on this 'player exchange plus cash tactics' which generally doesn't work - selling clubs probably want a wider choice of who their replacements should be

- we avoid messy situations like the Kounde & Zouma one we are in now

- less chance of a last minute transfer scramble and going into desperation mode and trying to get the likes of a Peter Crouch or And Carroll in

 

That's just a few I can think of.

I sure there won't be that many positives of doing it the way we do it now.

Giroud, Guehi Gilmour & Gallagher have much more chance of playing on the opening weekend then any new players we might buy, these are players we have sold or loaned out - how do we allow that to happen!

Like I said I'm baffled we do it like this - most clubs do it the opposite way to us!

We should try it the sensible way for one year, I'm sure we'd have a better transfer window!

 

 

 

Edited by 2211
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For once I don't think it can be completely put on the board. Sure they should have had their targets from before the summer and as soon as the window opened they should have been made priorities.

But, the market from what I've seen for strikers isn't great especially the higher quality ones. You're looking at £100m just to get some teams at the negotiation table. There are strikers that would come cheaper but, don't fit the profile we are seeking Griezmann, Martinez, Jovic, etc.

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i think its getting to the same point again which was JM II and AC second season.. its clear from the outside we need a striker especially we dont trust the ones at the club.. i am sure we can definitely get an upgrade on the ones here.. But at this point we dont seem to have a 2nd or a 3rd choice?

the second area was to get a physical presence in the midfield for certain situations.. dont see that adressed at all.. it was clear from day 1 that both Halland and Rice would be difficult signings but i dont see the second /third option activated either..  we seem to be in for Kounde.. which will be a slight upgrade over Zouma.. but other than that i dont see anything close to getting completed.

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In my view it would be a shame if we squander the momentum we have as Champions of Europe to bring in top, top players that could empower us to properly challenge for the PL-title again for the first time in five years. But it seems are about to do so unfortunately and as it stands we'll have no chance of fighting for the title, barring another Tuchel miracle.

 

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On 01/08/2021 at 02:03, Jangz said:

i think its getting to the same point again which was JM II and AC second season.. its clear from the outside we need a striker especially we dont trust the ones at the club.. i am sure we can definitely get an upgrade on the ones here.. But at this point we dont seem to have a 2nd or a 3rd choice?

the second area was to get a physical presence in the midfield for certain situations.. dont see that adressed at all.. it was clear from day 1 that both Halland and Rice would be difficult signings but i dont see the second /third option activated either..  we seem to be in for Kounde.. which will be a slight upgrade over Zouma.. but other than that i dont see anything close to getting completed.

We've certainly seen this before and I hope it doesn't go the way of Conte's second season. I will be worried if we suddenly switch from our main targets to a series of panic buys at the end of the window.

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I actually think the board know most of the issues and would of preferred to do things quicker. The issue we have is, we have decided to avoid just bringing in players for the sake of it or to fill a position, and have changed our strategy to only bring in the best. Whilst this is what we have needed to do for years, this brings itself some problems, and naturally we have a select few targets we can focus on.

Now when we try and get said target , i.e. Rice, Haaland, Lukaku, firstly we have just come off the back of a CL win, and secondly every paper and tabloid acts like Abramovic has an eternal money tree in his back garden. If I was any of these team and I heard the name Chelsea calling, I would be inclined to ask for a ridiculous transfer fee too, if these reports were to be believed. 

And herein is where the problem lies. We know the players we want, we probably have a few alternatives, but ultimately we have a plan on who we need to take us to that next level and we don't want to compromise on quality. But when these teams are asking for silly transfer fees, what can we do. I think the club know we are being fleeced and are trying to get as good a deal as possible. at the end of the day that might result in us just having to pay the money anyway, but as its not our money we cant just expect the club to bow down and  just give dortmund 150m and west ham 100m so we can get the players nice and early. we have to atleast try and play the game.  

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3 hours ago, forbzy said:

We've certainly seen this before and I hope it doesn't go the way of Conte's second season. I will be worried if we suddenly switch from our main targets to a series of panic buys at the end of the window.

I'm really baffled at the comparisions to that summer, we are literally doing the complete opposite of what we did then.

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1 hour ago, Argo said:

I'm really baffled at the comparisions to that summer, we are literally doing the complete opposite of what we did then.

Certainly different in terms of the way signings have panned out so far. In 2017 summer we made several signings early on and then what looked like some panic buys a the end of the window. A lot of money was spent that window, mostly in players that failed to impress. However if I remember correctly they were not the players that Conte wanted, and that led to his fallout with the board.

Still a few weeks left before the current transfer window ends and a lot could happen. I would have some concerns going into the new season if Tuchel doesn't get a couple of key signings (particularly a striker and center midfielder) to improve the squad. Expectations from the board will no doubt be to challenge for the league but I doubt we will see a marked improvement without reinforcements. That has the potential to lead to a fallout between Tuchel and the board, but hopefully things will work out better than they did with Conte.

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21 minutes ago, forbzy said:

Certainly different in terms of the way signings have panned out so far. In 2017 summer we made several signings early on and then what looked like some panic buys a the end of the window. A lot of money was spent that window, mostly in players that failed to impress. However if I remember correctly they were not the players that Conte wanted, and that led to his fallout with the board.

Still a few weeks left before the current transfer window ends and a lot could happen. I would have some concerns going into the new season if Tuchel doesn't get a couple of key signings (particularly a striker and center midfielder) to improve the squad. Expectations from the board will no doubt be to challenge for the league but I doubt we will see a marked improvement without reinforcements. That has the potential to lead to a fallout between Tuchel and the board, but hopefully things will work out better than they did with Conte.

I think the crucial differences between both times is a) Tuchel loves this squad and b) this is actually a squad on the up whereas our 2017 squad was basically being carried by Hazard and Kante. Do i want to finish this window signing just Kounde? Ideally no, but on this occasion i don't think it is the disaster it's portrayed as, we signed half a new team last summer and added a world class coach shortly after.

If there's no genuine upgrades to certain positions i'd rather wait it out, there's an upgrade available at CB and we're snapping him up, but in reality if we look at the striker situation for example, is many available strikers a safer bet than putting our chips on Kai exploding now he's settled and Covid free? How many of our realistic options actually outscored Kai and Timo the year before they arrived? I think what also helps is we should be making top 4 comfortably so even if that gamble failed in terms of challenging City we should be able to regroup with minimal damage done.

That said i don't disagree we need a striker to take Oli's spot as a wildcard option, i actually wanted Aguero for that role but i wouldn't be against Ings.

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2 hours ago, Argo said:

I'm really baffled at the comparisions to that summer, we are literally doing the complete opposite of what we did then.

I think the comparison is quite obvious and its not about the number of signings but failing to build on a successful season.. back then we had just won the league.. but then instead of getting in quality we forced out our striker.. broke up matic and kante and failed to add attacking threats to our attack which was limping over the line by may.

in the same way its important for us to make a signing which will keep players on toes and signal our intent..

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9 minutes ago, Jangz said:

I think the comparison is quite obvious and its not about the number of signings but failing to build on a successful season.. back then we had just won the league.. but then instead of getting in quality we forced out our striker.. broke up matic and kante and failed to add attacking threats to our attack which was limping over the line by may.

in the same way its important for us to make a signing which will keep players on toes and signal our intent..

If there's genuine upgrades then by all means go for it (as we're doing at CB) but if that summer hasn't proven that signing for signing sake isn't the way forward then i don't know what will. I'd rather sign no one than compromise our promising system by signing Lukaku and i genuinely mean that.

Likewise with January 2020 when people were moaning because of our rivals signed Bergwijn, Gedson, Ighalo and Pablo Mari, could you even imagine the state of our squad right now with those 4 on the rooster?

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Interesting points of view on here. Personally I am hoping the club are taking more of an approach like Liverpool did in waiting their time to be able to snap up Allison and VVD.

They, like us, made some poor signings trying to fill those gaps. In the end the identified top, top quality and only bought when they could get them.

So it is my hope we are doing the same.  Pool may have had other names than those two as well for all we know.

If what we want is say a Haaland, a Rice, a Kounde etc and we have a list of 2 or 3 of top quality in those position if we cannot get them I hope we buy nobody.

Also if we want the Chelsea premium to go away we have to stop paying it from now on EXCEPT for the top shelf quality.

You can splurge 80mill on the next Terry and 150mill on the next Shearer if you dont spend 40mill on Bakas and 25mill on Zappacostas and 32mill on Batmans etc.

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7 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Interesting points of view on here. Personally I am hoping the club are taking more of an approach like Liverpool did in waiting their time to be able to snap up Allison and VVD.

Also if we want the Chelsea premium to go away we have to stop paying it from now on EXCEPT for the top shelf quality.

 

I agree, the views on this forum and this thread in particularly are thankfully a lot more considered and balanced than the cesspit that is social media. If we think things are bad at Chelsea, imagine being a Barcelona fan right now, who need the club to offload players just to be able to register a team for next season...

COVID-recessions have pressured the market, but the unique football bubble skews the market in an unconventional way. 

A related question that i've been wrestling in my head - is £1 going to be worth more in this transfer market, or next season's? 

One on hand:

  • Clubs that need to sell to raise funds (Inter, Barcelona, Real Madrid etc) are still largely trying to offload deadwood or tricky contracts rather than key players. 
  • With television revenue being the main source of income, competitiveness and progression in the CL is key to increasing revenue. Key players are still effectively off-the-market.
  • At the same time all clubs are trying to trim their roster's deadwood. This is driving prices and demand for unwanted players way down, due to the sheer availability of unwanted players.
  • Since wages are traditionally linked to matchday revenue and operating costs, COVID-recessions mean clubs are unwilling to sign players for cheap only to pay big wages.
  • FFP is dead, and empowered by the Super League shenanigans and the success of La Liga's tough wage rules, UEFA are going to be looking for a stricter alternative that could cripple any club that overextends under current rules.

There are lots of willing sellers but no willing buyers at the low-end of the market, and the opposite is true for the top-end of the market. The market is at an impasse and has tremendous deflationary pressure on wages right now.

On the other hand:

  • There is almost zero competition for willing buyers. There are no real bidding wars between teams, the negotiations are solely between player and clubs.
  • Three of the biggest spenders (Bayern, Barcelona and Real Madrid) have excluded themselves from the mega-market at a time where extremely high-value targets (Haaland, Camavinga etc) might be available, meaning this could be a unique chance to 'get ahead'.
  • Selling clubs are in no position to refuse 'ridiculous' offers. £150m likely gets you any player in the world.
  • FFP is dead and transfer fees are stable, relative to wages.

So if you're Chelsea, flush with cash  - do you take advantage of this unique short-term opportunity to get ahead and risk being the last club to pay inflated fees and wages, or do you wait for a deflated market next season where your purchasing power is increased?

Edited by SydneyChelsea
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9 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Interesting points of view on here. Personally I am hoping the club are taking more of an approach like Liverpool did in waiting their time to be able to snap up Allison and VVD.

They, like us, made some poor signings trying to fill those gaps. In the end the identified top, top quality and only bought when they could get them.

So it is my hope we are doing the same.  Pool may have had other names than those two as well for all we know.

If what we want is say a Haaland, a Rice, a Kounde etc and we have a list of 2 or 3 of top quality in those position if we cannot get them I hope we buy nobody.

Also if we want the Chelsea premium to go away we have to stop paying it from now on EXCEPT for the top shelf quality.

You can splurge 80mill on the next Terry and 150mill on the next Shearer if you dont spend 40mill on Bakas and 25mill on Zappacostas and 32mill on Batmans etc.

Actually our problem isn't zappacosta or bats. You still need to spend a bit here and there to fill up you squad. Some of them will fail and it is normal. 

The problem with us is the big money signing. We have spent 250m in two seasons for attackers and we still need a top st. We spent 70 m on dm and we still need a top dm. We spent 70 m on gk and we need to spent another 20 to get Mendy and luckily he is better than advertised. 

 

Edited by Bob stark
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13 hours ago, Argo said:

I think the crucial differences between both times is a) Tuchel loves this squad and b) this is actually a squad on the up whereas our 2017 squad was basically being carried by Hazard and Kante. Do i want to finish this window signing just Kounde? Ideally no, but on this occasion i don't think it is the disaster it's portrayed as, we signed half a new team last summer and added a world class coach shortly after.

If there's no genuine upgrades to certain positions i'd rather wait it out, there's an upgrade available at CB and we're snapping him up, but in reality if we look at the striker situation for example, is many available strikers a safer bet than putting our chips on Kai exploding now he's settled and Covid free? How many of our realistic options actually outscored Kai and Timo the year before they arrived? I think what also helps is we should be making top 4 comfortably so even if that gamble failed in terms of challenging City we should be able to regroup with minimal damage done.

That said i don't disagree we need a striker to take Oli's spot as a wildcard option, i actually wanted Aguero for that role but i wouldn't be against Ings.

I agree with you, but the bolded bit is what worries me. I'm OK with not getting any signing if they don't improve the team, and would be ok with getting top 4. But, would the board and Roman be happy if we are not challenging the PL title? We know how much pressure the board puts on the coach to challenge for titles, and I don't think they'll be happy if Tuchel makes a comfortable top 4 but does not challenge the PL. And Tuchel will not be happy with the board given the history he's had with previous clubs. We know how this usually ends, and I would not be very happy to loose yet another coach, which in this case is world class.

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1 hour ago, RMH said:

I agree with you, but the bolded bit is what worries me. I'm OK with not getting any signing if they don't improve the team, and would be ok with getting top 4. But, would the board and Roman be happy if we are not challenging the PL title? We know how much pressure the board puts on the coach to challenge for titles, and I don't think they'll be happy if Tuchel makes a comfortable top 4 but does not challenge the PL. And Tuchel will not be happy with the board given the history he's had with previous clubs. We know how this usually ends, and I would not be very happy to loose yet another coach, which in this case is world class.

Personally i'm not convinced they're as ruthless as made out certainly not these days anyway, i mean ofcourse we're not Arsenal on the patience scale (thankfully) but i don't think we are 00's Madrid either. Sarri would have got a second season but decided he didn't want it and Mou got ample opportunity to turn that all time collapse around (if we really were that ruthless he'd have been gone after Southampton). Conte was behavioral and even then we appeared to have had second thoughts (judging by how long it took to actually do it).

However that said he will have to hit certain targets, as much as Frank buggered up season 2 in his full season he achieved 4th with a vastly inferior squad to our current one, so with that in mind Tuchel would have a lot to answer for if we're scrambling for top four again and rightly so (injury crisis or top 4 requiring a unusually high amount of points not withstanding).

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I dont understand this offer of 100m euros and Marcos Alonso for Lukaku.

He is a good striker but not in the same league like Haaland or Lewandowski (TOP shelf quality).

So Haaland OR Lewandowski should be the transfer targets IMHO.

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From the news of the bid rejected for Rom, I think it really is just a matter of time until he comes back. 
 

On the face of it my preference would be Haaland, Kane then Lukaku, but they are all within top 5 strikers in world football, and would be a massive boost to what’s already a squad depth second to only Man Citeh, and European Champions. 
 

Rom is built for the Prem, wasn’t given enough time as a youngster which seems to be a Chels way of the past, and looking back was good in a just above average United team. I think he can maybe have the tendency to get lost in games on the bigger stage, but I think TT will demand more, especially looking at how he was in Euros for Belgium. 
 

I’m for Lukaku, provided he comes in by the end of the week and understands what’s expected of him from TT. 
 

KTBFFH

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