Jump to content

Saul Niguez


Recommended Posts

On 28/08/2021 at 02:54, Gol15 said:

Jorginho worked his way up from earning 20 euros per week and living with monks while his agent was scamming him, he has nothing to prove anymore so your dig is pointless. 

Bizarre 😂 Do make an attempt to read and understand the analogy at least.

His point is that just because someone isn't able to shine at a useless team doesn't mean that they cannot be excellent in a better setup.

While he is implying that Jorginho will struggle in a team like Norwich, he is also implying that Jorginho puts in excellent performances in ours.

Struggles that Jorginho has overcome during his childhood are irrelevant.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


3 minutes ago, ashwin said:

Bizarre 😂 Do make an attempt to read and understand the analogy at least.

His point is that just because someone isn't able to shine at a useless team doesn't mean that they cannot be excellent in a better setup.

While he is implying that Jorginho will struggle in a team like Norwich, he is also implying that Jorginho puts in excellent performances in ours.

Struggles that Jorginho has overcome during his childhood are irrelevant.

My point is that Jorginho went the whole way from a lower team to the biggest team therefore no need to have a dig at him for no reason. You don't get to decide what's relevant here, I didn't ask for your interpretation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

My point is that Jorginho went the whole way from a lower team to the biggest team therefore no need to have a dig at him for no reason. You don't get to decide what's relevant here, I didn't ask for your interpretation.

Again irrelevant. Almost every top footballer in the world has come up playing the lower leagues/at poor teams.

The question is - Do you think Jorginho will shine in the same way at a team as poor as Norwich?

Instead of saying things about 20€ a day, you can just say that you DO NOT think Jorginho will struggle at Norwich. Which would be a valid (but unsurprising) point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, ashwin said:

Again irrelevant. Almost every top footballer in the world has come up playing the lower leagues/at poor teams.

The question is - Do you think Jorginho will shine in the same way at a team as poor as Norwich?

Instead of saying things about 20€ a day, you can just say that you DO NOT think Jorginho will struggle at Norwich. Which would be a valid (but unsurprising) point.

Again, you don't get to decide what's irrelevant and what's not.

My argument is that Jorginho already went through the whole path from a smaller team to the biggest, thus no point of low key having a dig at him at this point in time, not needed at all for this conversation. He had a hard time as a youth player and still made it to the first team of Verona and did well enough for Napoli to co-own his rights and later on he became a top player so it's pointless to even bring him into the conversation about some new unproven players and younger players, the comparison is totally off the mark there and if you still don't understand that, there is no help for you.

Edited by Gol15
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

Again, you don't get to decide what's irrelevant and what's not.

My argument is that Jorginho already went through the whole path from a smaller team to the biggest, thus no point of low key having a dig at him at this point in time, not needed at all for this conversation. He had a hard time as a youth player and still made it to the first team of Verona and did well enough for Napoli to co-own his rights and later on he became a top player so it's pointless to even bring him into the conversation about some new unproven players and younger players, the comparison is totally off the mark there and if you still don't understand that, there is no help for you.

You still haven't got the analogy 🙂 ok, leave it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

Again, you don't get to decide what's irrelevant and what's not.

My argument is that Jorginho already went through the whole path from a smaller team to the biggest, thus no point of low key having a dig at him at this point in time, not needed at all for this conversation. He had a hard time as a youth player and still made it to the first team of Verona and did well enough for Napoli to co-own his rights and later on he became a top player so it's pointless to even bring him into the conversation about some new unproven players and younger players, the comparison is totally off the mark there and if you still don't understand that, there is no help for you.

I took it as @RIP Mourinho was saying that Jorginho is really good and better than Gilmour, and they play the same position. So it was a relevant comparison in that regard, and his point was that even some of the best players in our team (and in the world) would struggle in a side as sh*tty as Norwich. He wasn’t picking on Jorginho - Jorginho just happens to play the same position as Gilmour and is a very very good player.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


52 minutes ago, mwblue10 said:

I took it as @RIP Mourinho was saying that Jorginho is really good and better than Gilmour, and they play the same position. So it was a relevant comparison in that regard, and his point was that even some of the best players in our team (and in the world) would struggle in a side as sh*tty as Norwich. He wasn’t picking on Jorginho - Jorginho just happens to play the same position as Gilmour and is a very very good player.

That's a nice explanation but sadly I'm not so optimistic like you, I don't think that putting a youngster on an equal level as our vice-captain was ever meant for a fair and unbiased comparison, after all there is a long history here of bad taste comments specifically towards Jorginho so in that light I can't really expect that this was just an innocent unbiased remark, would the person in question ever throw another name in there like Kante or Kovacic, I don't think so, after all they obviously can do well in Norwich in my book but here I learned that apparently Jorginho can't or couldn't.

In any case I think it's very hard to argue that it would be the same thing to loan a 20 year old to a lower club and a 29 year old, the reasons for sending the 29 year old there would never be the same, ever. Nobody expects an already formed player to suddenly have to prove something while being in a lower team, either he's good enough or he's not.

My point is that the comparison simply doesn't work because the 29 year old already proved himself at all levels while the 20 year old still has to develop and to prove himself which was what started the whole conversation, ozboy said that Gilmour still has a lot to prove and the comparison was originally with Tchouameni who is also a young player. This is why my first reply was that Jorginho already had done his growing up and earning-his-place period as a player.

If I had made a comment like RIPmourinho I would have said that you could put any of our players in Norwich and they would struggle just like Gilmour, if I were to really believe in that and if Gilmour is really struggling that is.

But I could have missed something because if it's all due to them playing the same position it's very likely because I don't even think Gilmour is a DM, I personally see him more as a CM.

For what is worth I believe that Gilmour has the quality to be a difference maker in Norwich even if the players he will be playing with are not as good. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Gol15 said:

It's relevent when you attempt to undermine our player for no reason at all.

I’ve changed my mind, I can’t even be arsed to argue with you. It’s like talking to a child when Jorginho’s name is mentioned.

Edited by RIP Mourinho
Gol15 is a child.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 28/08/2021 at 19:15, Ballack & Blu said:

Shame RLC isn’t convincing TT, and SN might not be enamoured to think, I ain’t getting much game time ahead of Kante, Jorgi, Kova, et al, we should of pushed for Sergej Milinković-Savić, 

No thanks, he's far too slow.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So this one still has some legs. There is a willingness from all 3 parties to get this deal done. TT has spoken to Saul, who is keen to join  him and thinks he is the coach to revive his career.

Atletico and Chelsea are both happy for this to be a loan deal. Atletico as it gets his huge wages off the books and gets them a good loan fee. Us because we would get an experienced all be it risky 4th CM. 

The problem left is the buy clause. Chelsea want an option to buy, Atletico want it to be mandatory. It is very much a case of who blinks first here of either side do, as both feel they have the upper hand here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

So this one still has some legs. There is a willingness from all 3 parties to get this deal done. TT has spoken to Saul, who is keen to join  him and thinks he is the coach to revive his career.

Atletico and Chelsea are both happy for this to be a loan deal. Atletico as it gets his huge wages off the books and gets them a good loan fee. Us because we would get an experienced all be it risky 4th CM. 

The problem left is the buy clause. Chelsea want an option to buy, Atletico want it to be mandatory. It is very much a case of who blinks first here of either side do, as both feel they have the upper hand here.

I can understand why Athletico want the mandatory buy clause. If we take Saul on a year long loan and he fails to impress they will find it much harder to get a decent price for him. No doubt they have some concerns over his injuries in recent years. Equally the same concerns are probably there from our point of view.

Maybe we should bid for Bissouma instead? Proven in the Premier League and we could probably get him for less than the price quoted for Kounde.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Have to have cover. Puts the whole season for the team at risk without cover. Some one capable of playing in the semis of the Champions league, competing with De Bruyne, Rodri, Odegaard  Rice, understanding what makes Chelsea tick.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, ozboy said:

Have to have cover. Puts the whole season for the team at risk without cover. Some one capable of playing in the semis of the Champions league, competing with De Bruyne, Rodri, Odegaard  Rice, understanding what makes Chelsea tick.

Whether thar I Saul anymore or not we will soon find out, sounds like this one is happening and Atletico will buckle and allow the deal to go through with an option to buy not a mandatory one, saving a pile on Saul's wages and getting an impressive loan fee as compensation (15mill euros)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, forbzy said:

I can understand why Athletico want the mandatory buy clause. If we take Saul on a year long loan and he fails to impress they will find it much harder to get a decent price for him. No doubt they have some concerns over his injuries in recent years. Equally the same concerns are probably there from our point of view.

Maybe we should bid for Bissouma instead? Proven in the Premier League and we could probably get him for less than the price quoted for Kounde.

I guess it's what the Italian clubs have been doing to us for years - taking Bakayoko, Zappacosta et al on loan deals and never purchasing.  Slight difference with Saul is that he's contracted to 2026 (!) so it's not like his value goes to zero for them.

I don't know how much the wages factor in.  I can't figure out if it's a euro / pound mix up, whether his salary ratchets up, after tax or no one knows anything, but the salary seems to range from £115k  / week to to £200k to £300k (including in this thread).  I kind of find hard to believe Atletico could pay at the high end, but what do I know.  Maybe if we pay a loan fee in addition to wages that relaxes the mandatory buy option although 15 mn euros sounds like... a lot.  Either way I'd prefer a CM to Kounde given our options in the area, but I guess worst case it's... Ampadu or RLC?  Even if not ideal, but maybe testing in Carabao and the like.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Romano has a different take to everyone else:
 

Chelsea had a complicated and tense day for Jules Koundé negotiations with Sevilla. Deal on the verge of collapsing many times but... today Chelsea will try again with final approach. Sevilla are so strong on their position.  #CFC #DeadlineDay Saúl deal now completely blocked.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Graeme Bailey: Chelsea and Atletico Madrid are taking again about Saul Niguez deal. Talks broke down between player and club last week, but Chelsea have come back as Thomas Tuchel wants another centre midfielder. Will be a loan.

Could be a very busy day at Stamford Bridge as they remain in talks with Sevilla for defender Jules Kounde, as with Saul looked off, but they will engage again today - neither are done, but Chelsea want both to happen...

 

Tweeted 4 mins ago. 

Edited by JM7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not bringing in another midfielder would be unheard of surely?

Kante is injury prone so that leaves two midfielder that's likely to stay fit for any extended period of time. And with suspension and/or injuries to Jorginho or Kovacic which will almost certainly happen over the course of a season we'd be screwed. Five competitions we'll be competing in this season when you include the club world-cup so it would be madness to not address it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Not bringing in another midfielder would be unheard of surely?

Kante is injury prone so that leaves two midfielder that's likely to stay fit for any extended period of time. And with suspension and/or injuries to Jorginho or Kovacic which will almost certainly happen over the course of a season we'd be screwed. Five competitions we'll be competing in this season when you include the club world-cup so it would be madness to not address it.

This is the one downside of having such top class/untouchable options, we will struggle to find anyone of any real note happy to come in knowing they will more than likely be nothing but cover.

Other examples would be Liverpool and their front three (ever since they established themselves the only other player in that area of any real note they have attracted is Jota) and Spurs' struggles to find a proper back up to Kane (knowing that's all they'll be).

Link to comment
Share on other sites


2 hours ago, JM7 said:

Graeme Bailey: Chelsea and Atletico Madrid are taking again about Saul Niguez deal. Talks broke down between player and club last week, but Chelsea have come back as Thomas Tuchel wants another centre midfielder. Will be a loan.

Could be a very busy day at Stamford Bridge as they remain in talks with Sevilla for defender Jules Kounde, as with Saul looked off, but they will engage again today - neither are done, but Chelsea want both to happen...

 

Tweeted 4 mins ago. 

Interesting. I had thought TT had talked to Saul again already to assure him of decent play time IF he performs with us being in 5 competitions, maybe that information is wrong but it sounded like TT had personal removed that block already.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on it's off it's on

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Well, this is awkward!

awkward the office GIF

The Shed End Forum relies on revenue to pay for hosting and upgrades. While we try to keep adverts as unobtrusive as possible without pop ups, we need to run ad's to make sure we can stay online and continue to keep the forum up, as over the years costs have become very high.

Could you please allow adverts on this domain by switching it off. Some of the advert banners can actually be closed to avoid interferance of your experience on The Shed End.

Cheers now!

emma watson yes GIF

Alright already, It's off!