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Chelsea v Man City (PL) Sat 25th Sep 2021 12:30 GMT


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21 minutes ago, icecoolguy22 said:

Could be just me, but in recent years the early kick off game bought the worst out of us. Put emotions aside, we did not deserve anything out of the game, it's a 4/10 performance and there was only 1 winner on the day. Their goal needed a bit of luck, but when we had a line of defenders standing in the box not stepping out, it's asking for trouble. Jorginho was at the wrong place the wrong time, defending in the box 1 on 1 it's never going to be his strength. We pressed them for about 10 minutes and matched them, then all the sudden stopped and let them run the game, it was 28% possession at one stage. We never defended like that in any of the 3 wins we had last season. If you are going to park the bus, at least bring the ball out quickly when we get a chance. Time and time again we over complicated things, 10 passes later the ball back with GK and we actually lost field position. City did an amazing job pressing us, there was 3-4 on him everytime Kovacic had the ball, Pep noticed he's the most likely to release dangerous passes. We could and should have gone direct more, yet Lukaku did a sh1t job holding the ball up when the few chances got to him. I get it he's a finisher, but in game like this where we were under the pump, should have done more "dirty work". Werner was the best attacker on the field, there was one instance he made a run al the way to the right corner flat with 3 defenders around him, and no support players within 10 yards of the action. RLC came on and did a nice cameo, he showed the running and strength we badly misses, think Tuchel realized that. No panic yet, City was at their 9/10 game, no team will beat them forever. The other front runners dropped points, so not a real disaster. We do need to get better, and do the hard work, really missed Mount's pressing and work rate. Chiwell should get more games now, Alonso's limitations started to show, attackers yet to click, and back to 343 as we actually looked lost with the front 2 completely cut off from the midfield.

I don't know what the stats are, @Gol15 help me out eh, but we seem to be half asleep and half a$$Ed every single early kickoff.

 

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42 minutes ago, icecoolguy22 said:

Could be just me, but in recent years the early kick off game bought the worst out of us. Put emotions aside, we did not deserve anything out of the game, it's a 4/10 performance and there was only 1 winner on the day. Their goal needed a bit of luck, but when we had a line of defenders standing in the box not stepping out, it's asking for trouble. Jorginho was at the wrong place the wrong time, defending in the box 1 on 1 it's never going to be his strength. We pressed them for about 10 minutes and matched them, then all the sudden stopped and let them run the game, it was 28% possession at one stage. We never defended like that in any of the 3 wins we had last season. If you are going to park the bus, at least bring the ball out quickly when we get a chance. Time and time again we over complicated things, 10 passes later the ball back with GK and we actually lost field position. City did an amazing job pressing us, there was 3-4 on him everytime Kovacic had the ball, Pep noticed he's the most likely to release dangerous passes. We could and should have gone direct more, yet Lukaku did a sh1t job holding the ball up when the few chances got to him. I get it he's a finisher, but in game like this where we were under the pump, should have done more "dirty work". Werner was the best attacker on the field, there was one instance he made a run al the way to the right corner flat with 3 defenders around him, and no support players within 10 yards of the action. RLC came on and did a nice cameo, he showed the running and strength we badly misses, think Tuchel realized that. No panic yet, City was at their 9/10 game, no team will beat them forever. The other front runners dropped points, so not a real disaster. We do need to get better, and do the hard work, really missed Mount's pressing and work rate. Chiwell should get more games now, Alonso's limitations started to show, attackers yet to click, and back to 343 as we actually looked lost with the front 2 completely cut off from the midfield.

Some very good points here.In truth we were outplayed.A good manager will have seen the flaws(and hopefully put them right) and not have to dissect anything.

Do we have the players? - I don't think so just yet.We have players that will not cut it in the long term imo and we need to cut our losses.We can talk about formation all day,but with the squad we have we will be up and down like a fiddlers elbow.Imo we need a quality player to stand in for Kante,and a quality link up player to stand in for mount - we are threadbare  in these positions.The likes of RLC,Ziyech,Jorginho, Havertz and Alonso cannot be relied upon,they are weak links,and we should cash them in imo.

Edited by jt61
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18 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

A lot of blame thrown at Lukaku, Tuchel, alonso. A lot people said 343 should be played. 

Did we really get better once Havertz came on? Not really. We looked better once ruben came on though. 

 

Ah I have had my hopes up around RLC far too many times only for him to break down. Dare not do it again...

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52 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Ah I have had my hopes up around RLC far too many times only for him to break down. Dare not do it again...

My point was more on why we struggled in that game. I don't think we had shape problem. It was more intensity and performance problem

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11 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

My point was more on why we struggled in that game. I don't think we had shape problem. It was more intensity and performance problem

Agreed shape was fine at Spurs. May have been different had Kante and Jorgi been fully fit

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4 hours ago, axman2526 said:

I don't know what the stats are, @Gol15 help me out eh, but we seem to be half asleep and half a$$Ed every single early kickoff.

 

Idk bro, prefer to just move on. The very thought about not having Mendy away vs this man city team makes me wonder if we will beat them this season...

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3 hours ago, jt61 said:

Some very good points here.In truth we were outplayed.A good manager will have seen the flaws(and hopefully put them right) and not have to dissect anything.

Do we have the players? - I don't think so just yet.We have players that will not cut it in the long term imo and we need to cut our losses.We can talk about formation all day,but with the squad we have we will be up and down like a fiddlers elbow.Imo we need a quality player to stand in for Kante,and a quality link up player to stand in for mount - we are threadbare  in these positions.The likes of RLC,Ziyech,Jorginho, Havertz and Alonso cannot be relied upon,they are weak links,and we should cash them in imo.

no we did improve when Havertz came on - we finally were able to pass the ball out of the back.. Yes we have the players to compare - This wasnt the strongest city team we have ever played.. In the past they would come with Aguero , Silva, Yaya, Kompany all world class players.. Foden / Rodri/ Jesus / Silva (bernardo) arent at the same level.. I would argue Havertz/Lukaku /Ziyech should be able to compete . The way we set-up it has been tough for our forward players  - which has been one of the criticisms of TT ever since he took over. 

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11 minutes ago, Jangz said:

no we did improve when Havertz came on - we finally were able to pass the ball out of the back.. Yes we have the players to compare - This wasnt the strongest city team we have ever played.. In the past they would come with Aguero , Silva, Yaya, Kompany all world class players.. Foden / Rodri/ Jesus / Silva (bernardo) arent at the same level.. I would argue Havertz/Lukaku /Ziyech should be able to compete . The way we set-up it has been tough for our forward players  - which has been one of the criticisms of TT ever since he took over. 

We don't have the players to "compete" for a season long campaign.We have the players to win things on their day.We need a few players to consolidate what we have.

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To be fair, that was as good as 11 players City could put on the field, and they wanted to win this more than us. In contrast, missing Mount and Pulisic left us quite short in the final third, and losing James didn't help either. In terms of depths, we aren't as strong as the media made out to be. A good wake up call, or the start of another slide like last season.

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We were outplayed and outfought. Tuchel was right when he said he didn’t “feel the belief” from the players. 
 

Only positive was Ruben who looked great. Think there is a lot of promise there and the switch to 3 in midfield might suit him 

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2 hours ago, jt61 said:

We don't have the players to "compete" for a season long campaign.We have the players to win things on their day.We need a few players to consolidate what we have.

Why do you say that ? What have city got to come out of the bench better than us ? Sterling / Mahrez and gundogan were the only players who weren’t playing .. we were missing mount pulisic  havertz ziyech Saul to cal off bench.. with the investments we have made I don’t think there is too much of a difference in squads .. we can give it any spin.. fact is the way we were set up .. put us on the backfoot and we never recovered .. we didn’t even create a half chance .. this one was on the coach .. which is ok - he is a fabulous coach but he got it wrong on the day and can happen. But I think post match he spoke about belief .. for me he needs to show more belief in our forward players too and also try out a 4-3-3 etc.

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17 minutes ago, Mod Stark said:

Their defence was so hard to break down, I haven’t seen them as strong as that at the back for a while. Was a brilliant game for them, made it hard for us.

Dias was brilliant 

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10 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Agreed shape was fine at Spurs. May have been different had Kante and Jorgi been fully fit

Jorginho played well but Jorginho is Jorginho. 

The key for our midfield were Kante and kova. Both didn't play well and Kante didn't look right

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10 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Idk bro, prefer to just move on. The very thought about not having Mendy away vs this man city team makes me wonder if we will beat them this season...

Ah that is a problem for next year, first off we need to see how we respond to this.

9 hours ago, icecoolguy22 said:

To be fair, that was as good as 11 players City could put on the field, and they wanted to win this more than us. In contrast, missing Mount and Pulisic left us quite short in the final third, and losing James didn't help either. In terms of depths, we aren't as strong as the media made out to be. A good wake up call, or the start of another slide like last season.

That is what have been asking in other threads. Our team has form in turning on a manager and half a$$ing performances and going on bad runs, especially between October and January.

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23 hours ago, icecoolguy22 said:

To be fair, that was as good as 11 players City could put on the field, and they wanted to win this more than us. In contrast, missing Mount and Pulisic left us quite short in the final third, and losing James didn't help either. In terms of depths, we aren't as strong as the media made out to be. A good wake up call, or the start of another slide like last season.

Nope, depth wise we are a very2 deep team. Missing Pulisic is irrelevant. 

The problem was me missed two of our most important players Kante and Mount where they have no good backup. You can play kova or Jorgi, even Chris over Silva, the difference is very minor but Ziyech over Mount is just a nightmare and Kante is simply in a class on his own. 

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On 26/09/2021 at 00:33, icecoolguy22 said:

Could be just me, but in recent years the early kick off game bought the worst out of us. Put emotions aside, we did not deserve anything out of the game, it's a 4/10 performance and there was only 1 winner on the day. Their goal needed a bit of luck, but when we had a line of defenders standing in the box not stepping out, it's asking for trouble. Jorginho was at the wrong place the wrong time, defending in the box 1 on 1 it's never going to be his strength. We pressed them for about 10 minutes and matched them, then all the sudden stopped and let them run the game, it was 28% possession at one stage. We never defended like that in any of the 3 wins we had last season. If you are going to park the bus, at least bring the ball out quickly when we get a chance. Time and time again we over complicated things, 10 passes later the ball back with GK and we actually lost field position. City did an amazing job pressing us, there was 3-4 on him everytime Kovacic had the ball, Pep noticed he's the most likely to release dangerous passes. We could and should have gone direct more, yet Lukaku did a sh1t job holding the ball up when the few chances got to him. I get it he's a finisher, but in game like this where we were under the pump, should have done more "dirty work". Werner was the best attacker on the field, there was one instance he made a run al the way to the right corner flat with 3 defenders around him, and no support players within 10 yards of the action. RLC came on and did a nice cameo, he showed the running and strength we badly misses, think Tuchel realized that. No panic yet, City was at their 9/10 game, no team will beat them forever. The other front runners dropped points, so not a real disaster. We do need to get better, and do the hard work, really missed Mount's pressing and work rate. Chiwell should get more games now, Alonso's limitations started to show, attackers yet to click, and back to 343 as we actually looked lost with the front 2 completely cut off from the midfield.

Good assessment. Though I didn’t watch the match I did watch the last half hour as I’d recorded it and was kind of curious. I know this was the part of the game where we’d come out of our shell, but I was still bracing myself as the comments on the thread were pretty negative. I was pleasantly surprised. We weren’t that bad. obviously it was too little too late vs a city on top form and they had the clearer cut chances but that’s to be expected as we were chasing. RLC was a real positive. Deserves a start in a big game soon.

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The one day of less recovery time took it's toll I think and overall it wasn't a good game of course but nothing I'd worry about too much. It's not like City had major chances despite their possession overload and they just were the better team on that day. Happens and no shame in that when they clearly turn in great performances. The big positive was certainly RLC who forces himself into the squad because of good performances - which is the way it should be. Can't wait til the Juve game starts tbh.

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On 26/09/2021 at 03:59, Gol15 said:

It actually does guarantee a whole lot, Man United don't even have an above average manager but they keep spending and keep getting top 4, Pep demands a whole lot in order to win you something and he was by all means at the right place at the right time during the best Spanish generation which had the majority of players in Barcelona. But OK we can agree to disagree, you can put up a list of the Barcelona managers over the years and 95% of them only won big titles while they were managing them, Pep went to Bayern that has an almost guaranteed domestic title, sure he's better than Pellegrini with more PL titles and he's up there with the top PL managers but that doesn't make him the best manager of all time at all. He inherited first the best Spanish team, then the best German team before coming to Man City where he spent how much money?

On the other hand Conte in his first season won the PL and Tuchel with a few months with us denied Man City the CL title which they have been chasing for a long time now... To me Pep isn't the best manager of all time, at least not yet.

I agree with that, but these day  I think Guardiola has done enough to show he is a good coach, he clearly improved some players, his teams have style. How good I don’t know. 

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5 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Nope, depth wise we are a very2 deep team. Missing Pulisic is irrelevant. 

The problem was me missed two of our most important players Kante and Mount where they have no good backup. You can play kova or Jorgi, even Chris over Silva, the difference is very minor but Ziyech over Mount is just a nightmare and Kante is simply in a class on his own. 

With Kante at his best that’s probably true, Kante was very average in that game and personally I think we do lack a bit of depth. Like you say ziyech and cho are not on the same level right now and with Pulisic injured a lot of the time that makes things thin. Equally Saul clearly isn’t going to be up to the job for a while so after Kante is injured we’d struggle if RLC wasn’t around. Missing Pulisic is not irrelevant. Far too strong a view. 

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3 hours ago, ozboy said:

With Kante at his best that’s probably true, Kante was very average in that game and personally I think we do lack a bit of depth. Like you say ziyech and cho are not on the same level right now and with Pulisic injured a lot of the time that makes things thin. Equally Saul clearly isn’t going to be up to the job for a while so after Kante is injured we’d struggle if RLC wasn’t around. Missing Pulisic is not irrelevant. Far too strong a view. 

If pulisic was healthy, will he play? Probably not,so yes it is irrelevant. 

 

 

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