Just watched a film again ‘Moneyball’ Brad Pitt. Is this the way we are going?

A little bit, but Moneyball was based on the team with the lowest budget in the league trying to compete, we obviously are going with a large budget.

I thought moneyball was about using data to find undervalued players to fit into a gameplay, rather than to sell on?

Yep. Using detailed data to create a successful team from less known/unwanted players. Both statements I think are right. 

I think data at the moment is revolutionizing the whole sport. It has always been there but now teams are actually relying on it and creating systems using it. 

In the movie Moneyball you have the exact same situation. Coach doesn't want to use data but his own experience and eye. Brad Pitt as the GM insists on that to gain advantage. This is why I think we have a massive influx of young coaches that will trust that data. 

Even players are probably much more in sync with that idea. This is partly why I think Pochettino was sacked.

As much as people are reacting to the Clearlake moves. I think the Lukaku move when you combine transfer fees and wages, really set up some of our direction.

16 hours ago, Wearyourblue said:

As much as people are reacting to the Clearlake moves. I think the Lukaku move when you combine transfer fees and wages, really set up some of our direction.

Lukaku was such an uninspiring transfer, and perfectly sums up our lack of invention when it comes to transfers.

We have a history of signing big name players, for big fees, and trying to then shoehorn them into our squad - playing a style that doesn’t suit them.

It happened with Lukaku, Werner, Havertz, Morata, Ziyech, Kepa etc….

We have always (over the past 20 years) preferred to buy the latest flavour of the month - rather than genuinely scout a player, to fit the team and system. 
 

I get the sense that our current approach isn’t much different - but rather than buy established players, we are just buying the latest flavour of the month “wonderkids”.

 

 

6 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

Lukaku was such an uninspiring transfer, and perfectly sums up our lack of invention when it comes to transfers.

We have a history of signing big name players, for big fees, and trying to then shoehorn them into our squad - playing a style that doesn’t suit them.

It happened with Lukaku, Werner, Havertz, Morata, Ziyech, Kepa etc….

We have always (over the past 20 years) preferred to buy the latest flavour of the month - rather than genuinely scout a player, to fit the team and system. 
 

I get the sense that our current approach isn’t much different - but rather than buy established players, we are just buying the latest flavour of the month “wonderkids”.

 

 

I'd even go as far as saying that having hit numerous fails from the Wisntanley and Stewart clowns, and with Joe Shields inspired Cole Palmer working out well,  our new brilliant plan is to systemically work our way through Jo Shields WhatsApp contact list

On 09/06/2024 at 14:23, evissy said:

Yep. Using detailed data to create a successful team from less known/unwanted players. Both statements I think are right. 

I think data at the moment is revolutionizing the whole sport. It has always been there but now teams are actually relying on it and creating systems using it. 

In the movie Moneyball you have the exact same situation. Coach doesn't want to use data but his own experience and eye. Brad Pitt as the GM insists on that to gain advantage. This is why I think we have a massive influx of young coaches that will trust that data. 

Even players are probably much more in sync with that idea. This is partly why I think Pochettino was sacked.

But isn't "Money Ball" just a Hollywood film and not an intended blueprint for how to run a PL football club ?

Haven't seen it, is it worth a look ?

Oh didn't know it was based on a real team etc.

Must be interesting although the piece I read mentioned was that the film left out 3 star players who were key to success ?

Makes a more compelling film I suppose. When did this happen?

3 hours ago, The Rising Sun said:

But isn't "Money Ball" just a Hollywood film and not an intended blueprint for how to run a PL football club ?

Haven't seen it, is it worth a look ?

Good movie but it's also a bloody old movie and it's not had sway in the world of sports to the level it's been played here. 

Yes data is getting more relevant as clubs try to gain that extra edge and advantage but the incremental gains in my opinion are realised more when used with smaller teams that are trying to do things differently due to scarce resources and break in. 

Not dismantling an already top performing team to set up under the "moneyball" framework when you dont really have to. After all you've spent over a billion quid on players that you won't reap any benefits financially until at least three to four years at the earliest and in that time you won't or can't be competitive due to the player types in your squad. 

On 09/06/2024 at 23:23, evissy said:

Yep. Using detailed data to create a successful team from less known/unwanted players. Both statements I think are right. 

I think data at the moment is revolutionizing the whole sport. It has always been there but now teams are actually relying on it and creating systems using it. 

In the movie Moneyball you have the exact same situation. Coach doesn't want to use data but his own experience and eye. Brad Pitt as the GM insists on that to gain advantage. This is why I think we have a massive influx of young coaches that will trust that data. 

Even players are probably much more in sync with that idea. This is partly why I think Pochettino was sacked.

No it is not, data analysis has never been poorer to be honest. Every snake oil salesman wants to sell you their data model and the industry is a cesspool of competing analysis products that are very much attuned to confirmation bias. Actual analysts are so poorly paid that any decent actuary or data analyst earns double working in finance than in sport.

There is no revolution, EPL clubs have been doing data-driven transfer analysis for decades now, it's just that some data is now available to the public and "journalists" are free to cherry-pick nonsense for their social media content. The majority of "analysis" is logically poor, and lacks a sound statistical, mathematical basis.

Just remember it was "data" that drove Damien Comolli to sign Stewart Downing and Andy Carroll for Liverpool.

3 hours ago, SydneyChelsea said:

No it is not, data analysis has never been poorer to be honest. Every snake oil salesman wants to sell you their data model and the industry is a cesspool of competing analysis products that are very much attuned to confirmation bias. Actual analysts are so poorly paid that any decent actuary or data analyst earns double working in finance than in sport.

There is no revolution, EPL clubs have been doing data-driven transfer analysis for decades now, it's just that some data is now available to the public and "journalists" are free to cherry-pick nonsense for their social media content. The majority of "analysis" is logically poor, and lacks a sound statistical, mathematical basis.

Just remember it was "data" that drove Damien Comolli to sign Stewart Downing and Andy Carroll for Liverpool.

Absolutely spot on.