Posted October 9, 200717 yr We have Arnesen, we all but have Ten Cate, Grant is surely still a temporary measure (albeit a little longer than we maybe at first expected) and we have been linked with the likes of Hiddink, Rijkaard and Van Basten. Surely only foolish money would bet against the club being run by an entirely Dutch management team next season. Now granted it is a bit of a stereotype but when you think about Dutch football you tend to think of two things: 1. 'Total Football' OK it was a long long time since 'Total Football' was the great new thing dating as it does back to the 1970s when it was employed by Ajax and the Dutch national team - although it can be traced all the way back to Ajax in the 20s and 30s however it has been rooted in the Ajax philosophy for a long time and, also interestingly, in the Barcelona philosophy. So Ajax and Barcelona eh..... Ten Cate and Rijkaard - easy to see why the papers put two and two together. 2. Youth Policy Has there been a country more successful at developing youngsters than Holland, or more specifically a club more successful than Ajax? A club that can boast the likes of Bergkamp, the De Boer's, Cruyff, Overmars, Koeman, Muhren, Sneijder .... oh and Rijkaard, Van Basten and Arnesen in their list of former players (granted not all of them entirely as a result of their youth policy but many were) So is this an entirely transaprent move toward turning Chelsea into England's equivalent of Ajax? THere is no denying that Roman has invested heavily in the first team but he has also not been shy to invest in the youth policy either.
October 9, 200717 yr Well I wouldn't mind Chelsea being the english version of Ajax when it comes to youths. A friend of mine plays for a youth team here in Sweden and their team has played against many big teams in europe (well the big teams youths anyway) and he has spoken very well about dutch teams and of course Ajax.
October 9, 200717 yr when you think about Dutch football you tend to think of two things: 1 - Players falling out with each other all the time 2 - Winston Bogarde In all seriousness you may be onto something. Sounds good to me.
October 9, 200717 yr arnesen's danish, so only a fool would think we will have an all dutch management. that aside, sounds good to me too.
October 9, 200717 yr Author Well, you are Indian but you prefer steak to curry - the same logic applies!
October 9, 200717 yr You also get the image of two bauld men fighting over a comb. famously there ego's and in house arguments have cost dutch teams and the national team dear through out history
October 9, 200717 yr Ditto loz. If that's what cooking, I'm all for it. All, except for Van "obsessive" Gaal.
October 10, 200717 yr arnesen's danish, so only a fool would think we will have an all dutch management.that aside, sounds good to me too. I'd rather be ALL DUTCH than all Frenche a la Arse !!!!!
October 10, 200717 yr Well, you are Indian but you prefer steak to curry - the same logic applies! That's unkind Loz, I thought he was the "Kurma queen"
October 10, 200717 yr Now granted it is a bit of a stereotype but when you think about Dutch football you tend to think of two things:1. 'Total Football' 2. Youth Policy Being the best team but never actually winning the tournament! Sort of like a footballing equivalent of the All Blacks!
October 10, 200717 yr I've never understood the hype around Dutch football. Total football is way in the past (if there ever was such a thing as total football), and like BJD says, Dutch players are mostly noted for their uncanny ability to spoil matters for themselves by acting too big for their boots and for not getting along. Although Oranje have the most recent silverware (European champions in 1988) as compared to England , I always rate England's chances higher in tournaments, just for sheer stick-to-it-tiveness, something the Dutch are completely unfamiliar with. But the individual players, ahhhh yes. Loz is right, the Ajax youth set-up has produced some marvels. PSV is working hard in that area too, with players like Aisatti, Afellay and Bakkal regularly in the starting line-up. It's only a matter of time before they disappear to a foreign league as well (did you know that out of 25 players in the Dutch squad for the next 2 international matches, only 9 play in Holland). But copying the Dutch (or Ajax/PSV) youth system to Chelsea? Certainly Chelsea can copy best practices, but the development of the youth system has only started comparitively recent, we can't expect a new JT to break through every season already. A few promising players are on loan, Sinclair is in the senior squad, and hopefull he'll be getting more than just a few minutes here and there. I'm sure in years to come, we can expect a few more players to break through.
October 10, 200717 yr Author The big difference would be that unlike Ajax or the Dutch team we wouldn't actually be full of predominantly Dutch players, we would be looking to apply some of the principles to players of many nationalities including English ones thus I don't think the issue of 'Billy Big Boots' is that pertinent.
October 10, 200717 yr If Chelsea are looking Dutch, then they should consider Barcelona assistant Johan Neeskens- one of the highest rated coaches in Dutch and world football, and Guus Hiddink's former assistant.
October 10, 200717 yr Neeskens as another assistent? That way our bench is filled up by the coaching staff, with no more room for Sheva (now there's a thought....)! Neeskens used to take killer penalties, and we could use some coaching with those
October 10, 200717 yr The arrival of Ten Cate will have major implications for some players - he is very loud and used to getting his way. He doesn't take players aside for a quiet word nor does he try and gently boost their confidence. He wades in with both feet and if a player isn't doing what he should he will quickly know all about it. From what I've heard he can be a bit of a bully on the training pitch, that might benefit some players but not others. And where does his appointment leave Clarkey? Even we can't afford to have two first team coaches. The way I see it is Roman is trying to give us a more European managerial set-up. Grant will become Director of Football, a manager (Rijkaard, Hiddink?) will be brought in and Ten Cate will be first-team coach with Arnesen looking after development. Whether that sort of structure will suit an English Premier League team is difficult to say, it works very well at the likes of Barcelona but can it work here? Its certainly not a structure that Jose would work with, too much power is taken away from the manager/coach and it also means that Roman can more directly influence - through Grant - what goes on on the pitch. As Mao might have said, we live in interesting times....
October 10, 200717 yr All so the chairman can meddle........... Maybe or maybe not. I did say can influence but it doesn't mean he will...
October 10, 200717 yr When I read the title of the thread I thought you were referring to Ten Cake's rather nuclear perma-tan....
October 10, 200717 yr All so the chairman can meddle........... Maybe or maybe not. I did say can influence but it doesn't mean he will... He will, we know he will. Why get grid of Jose if he didn't want to influence the team Why restructure the entire 1st team coaching staff The futures red - the futures russian
October 10, 200717 yr I've never understood the hype around Dutch football. Total football is way in the past (if there ever was such a thing as total football), and like BJD says, Dutch players are mostly noted for their uncanny ability to spoil matters for themselves by acting too big for their boots and for not getting along. Although Oranje have the most recent silverware (European champions in 1988) as compared to England , I always rate England's chances higher in tournaments, just for sheer stick-to-it-tiveness, something the Dutch are completely unfamiliar with. That's a great point to make, Valerie, and I'm going to add to it, if I may, as I was about to put the following into the mix... As anyone who saw the 1974 World Cup Finals will know, Total Football is about as good as it gets. No Premiership side, including Le Arse, would be able to live with us, if we end up playing it anywhere near as well as Rinus Michels team did back in those days. The appointment of Avram Grant isn?t exactly a big arrow pointing in the direction of this specialist approach, but the arrival of Ten Cate could well be, especially when linked with Hiddink (not Rijkaard, as he has definitely fallen out with him). Ten Cate looks to be the type of coach who embraces Michels philosophy wholeheartedly and, to prove my point, I looked up the old Dutch Master?s definition of the art, which goes as follows:- "'Total Football and its attacking pressure are very spectacular. It places great demands on individual and team tactical excellence?an absolute prerequisite, to master such a team tactical aspect, is that all the players possess a positive mentality, including the substitutes." Back then Total Football was also known as the Playmaking Style, so I looked that up on the Net as well and this is how the site describes the concept on its opening page? ?The playmaking style is one of two team strategies, the second being the counter attacking style. These two styles are at the base of all the decisions about how a team will play in a match. The decision which style to adopt will determine the functions and responsibilities inside the team and how to conduct training sessions. The playmaking style is the hardest to prefect and is beyond the capabilities of most youth teams. In order to play this style of soccer certain key ingredients must be present. Not some, or in some measure, but all and in spades. Without doubt the most important is to take the field with the correct mentality - the 'Amsterdam Bluff' as it's called in Holland.? ?and moving on to the key ingredients for the Playmaking Style? The predicted outcome determines choice. The playmaking style is only effective when you believe, and can back up, that you are better then the opponents, see above. If the predicted outcome is 4-0 to you, you can do what you like. If it's 4-0 to the opponents then you'll do what the opponents want you to do. One goal games, 1-0, 2-1 present a problem. While you can attempt to use the playmaking style, you're likely to be spending a good deal of time in the counter attacking style as well. Everyone in the team must understand and accept the decisions about how the team will play, that it is the best choice in the given situation. Trust. The players must have complete confidence in themselves and each other. That the plan is correct and everyone is capable of carrying out their part. This is only possible when the players really know one another, when they play 'instinctively.' Youth teams usually don't have enough time together to reach this level. The playmaking style is a high risk style. It requires very high ambition and very low fear of failure on the part of everyone. All of this goes some way towards answering my main worry about replicating/resurrecting the whole concept - why do the Dutch fail so miserably in their own attempts to recreate the magic of 1974? The answer has to be that in many World Cups since, if not all, they screwed up trust-wise. Now I?d like to think that Roman spotted a niche in the trust market when he came to Chelsea and tapped into the unity within our ranks and ?the English footballer? mentality in general. Jose sharpened these instincts even more - but he never thought that 1-0 and 2-1 games presented a problem that needed surmounting. Acceptance of the narrow victory, at the exclusion of stylish, but riskier, 3-0 or 4-0 wins, sowed seeds of disapproval in Roman?s mind and the rest would be history, if we had any. Of course, real confirmation of a total shift towards Total Football can only be announced when a certain Avram Grant makes way for a Hiddink or a Rijkaard (less likely IMHO), but in the interim he will have to do, just as long as he is prepared to fulfil the function so obviously expected of him within the new regime - to settle the inevitable rows involving the new Dutch contingent, whilst clad in orange from head to foot at all times.
October 10, 200717 yr All so the chairman can meddle........... Maybe or maybe not. I did say can influence but it doesn't mean he will... He will, we know he will. Why get grid of Jose if he didn't want to influence the team Why restructure the entire 1st team coaching staff The futures red - the futures russian when will roman be picking sheva again, out of interest?
October 10, 200717 yr Acceptance of the narrow victory, at the exclusion of stylish, but riskier, 3-0 or 4-0 wins, sowed seeds of disapproval in Roman?s mind and the rest would be history, if we had any Also leads to alot of 2-2 or 3-3 draws - just ask Spurs, the club he 'nearly' bought
October 10, 200717 yr All so the chairman can meddle........... Maybe or maybe not. I did say can influence but it doesn't mean he will... He will, we know he will. Why get grid of Jose if he didn't want to influence the team Why restructure the entire 1st team coaching staff The futures red - the futures russian when will roman be picking sheva again, out of interest? Never - if he's got any common sense
October 10, 200717 yr When I read the title of the thread I thought you were referring to Ten Cake's rather nuclear perma-tan.... Nuclear perma-tan ? You mean the tan people of Surinam descent may in varying degrees have? Like a few others with nuclear perma-tans such as Gullit, Rijkaard, Davids, Ten Cate has Surinam blood (by his mother). Born and raised Amsterdammer though.
